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Brixton Somerleyton Road development, Ovalhouse and Brixton Green - funding, proposed rents etc

SpamMisery said:
Do we know what the fire regulation differences are between day use and night use?
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Can u give it a rest?

We are talking about people like boohoo who were born in South London, were active in local community in positive way ( the mural society) and had wonderfull Lambeth Council evict them from there home and community against there will. Done btw in a particularly "un cooperative" nasty manner by hot shot city lawyers Devonshires.
 
boohoo said:
No idea. It might be that if all the office workers burn, they are covered by insurance and it would be their fault whereas it might have been unclear where responsibility lay with the co-op. Who knows? It was a good place to live and I miss being part of that community.
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So did the council release the fire assessment? Presumably that would reference the relevant regulations and help explain their (right or wrong) justification for the decision
 
Gramsci said:
Can u give it a rest?

We are talking about people like boohoo who were born in South London, were active in local community in positive way ( the mural society) and had wonderfull Lambeth Council evict them from there home and community against there will......
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Will you shush. What on earth has being born in South London got to do with anything?!! One half of my family were born and raised in Brixton. So what?
 
The building regulations for fire are complex but flexible (and do differ between housing and office space). But with enough careful design, almost anything can be made to satisfy the requirements. The reasons given for evicting Carlton Mansions were spurious.

In a kick to the teeth, the "creative interventions" made by the coop over the years (ie painting, plastering, decorating) will be left in-situ to provide "character"
 
Carlton Mansions and Lambeth politics aside, the rest of the scheme is pretty well thought out, in my mind.
 
Crispy said:
In a kick to the teeth, the "creative interventions" made by the coop over the years (ie painting, plastering, decorating) will be left in-situ to provide "character"
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I haven't looked at the planning application yet but last time I talked to the architect the Council had decided there was an issue with the staircases. As they are wooden.

Will have to check this.Typical Council officer doing it all by the rule book. The wooden stairs are quite a feature and unusual. Its such bollox if they have to go. Im around Soho a lot and there are several office/ workshop buildings with original wooden staircases.

The thing about Mansions was that as it had never been modernised it still had a lot of original features intact.

To be fair to Zac the architect he did get in touch with me and I have talked to him.As he wanted to know the history of the Mansions.

However most people who are ex Coop members are understandably unwilling to talk as they feel that the Council may use the "creative interventions" and character we left behind to make the building interesting and quirky for the Councils benefit.

I also asked Zac to keep the old laundry at the back. The Mansions had its own laundry when originally built which most of remains.

One of the reasons it still intact is the way its built. Its got a lot of structural walls. Not sure why but structural engineer I showed around remarked on it. Maybe because its by a railway line. It does shake a bit at the top.
 
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CH1 post on LJ thread about Lambeth Archives day tomorrow reminds me that Lambeth archives have finished cataloging the Coop and short life files and info I donated on behalf of Coop. Also including my small archive of S/L photos etc.

I have to see the head Archivist in next few weeks and discuss with ex Coop members whether a few things will be left out because they are sensitive.

Apart from that the Lambeth Archives will soon have on public access a lot of Short Life and Mansions material.
 
SpamMisery said:
Will you shush. What on earth has being born in South London got to do with anything?!! One half of my family were born and raised in Brixton. So what?
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Because I am the sort of community that Lambeth will use when it is convenient and screw over when it is convenient.

And stop stirring! I am sure i have the fire risk assessment if you want to work your way through it so that you can give us your wise opinion. I'm sure someone on here can give you answers to the difference in fire regulations for spaces used as homes or offices - I suggest you start a thread.
 
Gramsci said:
At the beginning of the Somerleyton road project it was a Coldharbour Ward Cllr who attended all the meetings.Either Rachel or Matt.

For some reason the Ward Cllrs were pushed out of it.

<snip> I got distinct feeling that the Ward Cllrs were not happy they had been sidelined. To the point that they knew as much about the project as jo blogs like me.I know they were not informed of decisions about the site until after they had been taken. They also found BG opaque.

I think the Somerleyton road project became a flagship project for the Nu Labout revitalization of the third way.
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I get the feeling that, in the case of my 3 (Labour) Ward Cllrs, although they complain about being kept in the dark they find that it provides them with some very convenitent plausible deniability. :(

I say this, because I know that when people living here repeatedly tried to tell them exactly what was going on with the so-called consultation process, (some of us mentioning what had happened in the working groups etc), the Ward Cllrs preferred to ignore us and believe whatever the council chose to tell them.
 
Greebo said:
I get the feeling that, in the case of my 3 (Labour) Ward Cllrs, although they complain about being kept in the dark they find that it provides them with some very convenitent plausible deniability. :(
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Point taken.

Someone else said to me a while back the same as what u have said here. They said that I am to understanding of my Ward Cllrs. That they now exactly what is going on.
 
There will be an exhibition including a scale model of the whole development - I'll post up details as soon as I have them, and they will be on the Future Brixton site, of course.

Council rent / social housing rent definitely means that - not some weasly version of 'affordable' etc.

The question of preserving Carlton Mansions' features is an interesting one. It is an intention of Ovalhouse, Zac Monro Architects and the council team working on Somerleyton Rd that the history of Carlton Mansions - the fabric of the building, of it's residents and the social history - be told through and in the building and not obliterated. We have seen the preservation of as many original features as possible as part thrifty, part preserving the building as it is as far as possible, and in doing so keeping it's character, rather than being 'quirky' or gimmicky. But it can be a fine line.

The stair cores will be replaced.
 
OvalhouseDB said:
The question of preserving Carlton Mansions' features is an interesting one. It is an intention of Ovalhouse, Zac Monro Architects and the council team working on Somerleyton Rd that the history of Carlton Mansions - the fabric of the building, of it's residents and the social history - be told through and in the building and not obliterated.
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I understand the good intentions here, but it sounds like the place where some people once called home is being turned into a museum exhibit.
 
As I say: it can be a fine line.

As I think has been discussed on these boards before, between us, the architects and Ovalhouse are taking care of some old stones which were in one of the courtyards, on the advice of co-op member / former residents. We will bring them back and use them somewhere once they can be installed securely (they are not actually originally form Carlton Mansions but from another co-op). The laundry is being preserved. Where they still exist the fireplaces are staying - they document a interesting history as they were not installed in the typical way, best ones at the front, plainest at the back. The plaques on the front of the building will stay - why would anyone remove them? I don't think any of this constitutes a museum exhibit.
 
OvalhouseDB said:
As I say: it can be a fine line.

As I think has been discussed on these boards before, between us, the architects and Ovalhouse are taking care of some old stones which were in one of the courtyards, on the advice of co-op member / former residents. We will bring them back and use them somewhere once they can be installed securely (they are not actually originally form Carlton Mansions but from another co-op). The laundry is being preserved. Where they still exist the fireplaces are staying - they document a interesting history as they were not installed in the typical way, best ones at the front, plainest at the back. The plaques on the front of the building will stay - why would anyone remove them? I don't think any of this constitutes a museum exhibit.
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I think I can say no one in the Coop has any beef with you or Ovalhouse theatre.

I personally think Zac so are is trying to do a sensitive and imaginative reuse of the Mansions.

It s good to hear the plaques will stay. The Coop members are concerned that the Council is trying to write us out of the history of the site. Its not you they were worried about its the Stalinist elements of the Council bureaucracy who would not want a plaque up on front of Mansions. I still wouldn't put it past them to find a reason to remove them.

Its the same do it by the book officers ( not Neil) who decided the stairs have to go. Which I am not at all happy about. Good thing imo opinion Zac is the architect. If the Council desk jockeys had there way the whole inside of building would have been torn down with just the front and mural wall kept.

The issue of incorporating history of Coop in the Mansions is sensitive as Ex Coop members are so upset at what the Council did to them. They rightly see in the end this is a Council project. The Council regard this as a flagship innovative project of urban development. Its nauseating for me to read Cllr Jacko going on about community involvement in the scheme.

I think one of the best things I did ( along with another one of the last Coop members who drove the van) was to get the Coop files and all the S/L stuff I kept to Lambeth Archives. In the last weeks it could have got lost. I now think its going to be the way the Coop is not erased from history.
 
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People make interesting points, and I'm thinking that another discussion with the Brixton Society is due.

But I probably shouldn't get involved in too much discussion at this stage, because the Planning process is important in it's own right, without me going 'yes but...'

I am very happy to answer questions, where I can.

The stair cores are wooden, beautiful step-worn treads - I'll check about the replacements. I am sure I do know but will double check.
 
I thought it was going to be up to 11 stories, but I can't seem to find any pictures that show the true height of the development... maybe I have missed something.
 
OvalhouseDB said:
People make interesting points, and I'm thinking that another discussion with the Brixton Society is due.

But I probably shouldn't get involved in too much discussion at this stage, because the Planning process is important in it's own right, without me going 'yes but...'

I am very happy to answer questions, where I can.

The stair cores are wooden, beautiful step-worn treads - I'll check about the replacements. I am sure I do know but will double check.
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Thanks. I suspect that the replacement/renewal will be to bring the stairs "up to code" for a building in commercial use, i.e. steel cores/frames with or without wood cladding.
 
The stairs are being entirely replaced. They're too narrow and steep for non-residential use.
 
Crispy said:
The stairs are being entirely replaced. They're too narrow and steep for non-residential use.
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The materials have not been fully decided - probably steel and wood. The new stairs are enclosed within a fire protective 'atrium',

The current / old stair treads will be re-used / upcycled - not trashed.

The date being given for comments to be received by is 23rd October - although comments can be submitted to the council right up until the planning meeting , mid - December.
 
OvalhouseDB said:
The materials have not been fully decided - probably steel and wood. The new stairs are enclosed within a fire protective 'atrium',

The current / old stair treads will be re-used / upcycled - not trashed.

The date being given for comments to be received by is 23rd October - although comments can be submitted to the council right up until the planning meeting , mid - December.
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I would like to get photographic record of the Mansions done before any works start.

As it clear there will be more alterations than I thought.

I have local photographer who is interested.
 
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