Shippou-Sensei
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Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Summer 2019
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ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
Well ok, I understand why people were threatening to burn it down then. Shame they didn't take the unaccompanied child into Foxtons then.
editor
hiraethified
Why? It's not Poundland's fault that the police dragged the kid in there. Why should their staff be threatened?
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
Because if it does burn down it wouldn't be a loss.
I would be angry too if I saw that and the police could well anticipate such a response so they bear some culpability if the staff felt threatened
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
The offence is "abusive or insulting words...which..intentionally cause harassment, alarm or distress" Verbal abuse and harassment in public | The Crown Prosecution Service. The intent seemed very clear to me. The girls were being deliberately malicious. The staff were so distressed that they could not continue working. All in all, a strong likelihood of a conviction in my opinion.
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
Ugh. I can't even be bothered to explain to you why criminalising teenage girls and negatively effecting their whole lives would be a disproportionate response to what you've described.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
If it's their first offence they'll get a caution or a conditional discharge. They won't get a criminal record unless they keep offending. If they do that they will have criminalised themselves. Seems proportionate to me.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So what are you saying? That working class people should just put up with abuse when they are just trying to work and earn a living? That's all part of the job description?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I work dealing with the public. I have every sympathy with shopworkers and those other working class people who serve the public. Every now and then you have to deal with people venting their frustrations on you. As you do working class job some think you are easy target as they can get away with it. Whether that's teenage girls or someone older doing it.
Its imo abuse.
Its imo abuse.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
These girls were doing it just for fun. They had no reason to be displeased with the service they were getting. They didn't spend any money and just wanted things for free. They were in there causing a scene for a full half hour before the police arrived. Customers couldn't be served, a queue built up, the manager was handing out vouchers to people in the queue to make up for the cessation of service. The girls didn't care about any of that. They weren't angry. They were just enjoying the spectacle. I suppose they were bored. They just wanted to provoke, to get things to escalate. Apparently they've been in Starbucks every day, not spending any money, just demanding free stuff and being rude. They'll probably be back tomorrow.
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
Clearly that wasn't what I said at all.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So do explain what I got wrong. What "clearly" didn't you say?
He said arrest, he didn’t say charge.
It sounds like you think they should be allowed to behave like little shits all summer.
Alex
DietCokeGirl
Fishing in the rivers of life
It's possible to have sympathy for people dealing with the public like shop workers, AND also care about the underlying reasons some people display behavour that's difficult to deal with. It's not either/or. It's shit dealing with abuse on minimum wage, it's also shit being so skint you have to steal, or having MH problems, or not having any decent youth facilities.
Maybe, but there isn't an equivalence there. Someone setting out to cause distress doesn't deserve the same sympathy as someone setting out to sell coffee to pay their bills.
It will be my 43rd birthday on Saturday, and I realise that I am turning into a grumpy old man. But I would happily see casual assault occasioned on these girls. A good kick up the arse and throw them out the door. No police, no records. Kick up the arse until they get the message and stop coming back.
It is no wonder they are closing down Brixton Starbucks.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I quite often see the staff being given hassle, or at least not being treated with basic human respect in fast food places. Customers demanding that they be given a bit extra compared to what the deal is supposed to be, or just generally treating those serving them like crap. It's usually teenagers or slightly older, talking like that to people twice their age who I doubt are making a killing in that job. They just have to stand there and take it. Makes me want to tell those kids to get some manners and give them a clip round the ear but I'd rather not get beaten up.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Actually if you compare this to a pub - pubs have the right to eject and bar problem customers and nobody bats an eyelid.
Clearly if you are running a coffee bar or a small shop you are in a potentially vulnerable situation as there are no ground rules it seems.
Personally I blame Brexit for a lot of what's happening now. We are used to constant challenging behaviour from politicians and journalists. Its hardly surprising that when delinquently inclined girls decided to show-boat at the expense of the Starbucks staff that nobody knows what to do.
It all chimes with the story editor told up thread.
Clearly if you are running a coffee bar or a small shop you are in a potentially vulnerable situation as there are no ground rules it seems.
Personally I blame Brexit for a lot of what's happening now. We are used to constant challenging behaviour from politicians and journalists. Its hardly surprising that when delinquently inclined girls decided to show-boat at the expense of the Starbucks staff that nobody knows what to do.
It all chimes with the story editor told up thread.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
This is often no more apparent than in chicken shops. I feel really sorry for the staff that work there sometimes, whenever a miscreant wanker is loudly and rudely demanding the moon on a stick to go with their £1.99 meal, under some misguided entitlement which makes them believe they actually deserve all they demand or can get out of this frightened and intimidated worker on minimum wage.
shakespearegirl
just worked out taglines
On my occasional (and slightly shameful) forays into KFC in Brixton this is very evident. Mainly late teenage/early 29s behaving really aggressively towards staff, demanding free stuff or ranting about respect.
gaijingirl
Well-Known Member
This is the kind of stuff we put up with daily as teachers (in some schools - certainly my last school - and obviously not all the kids by any means). By and large when you see their home lives you realise they are largely fucked. It is really frustrating. One of my colleagues was quite violently attacked last year at school and it ended up in court. The child was found guilty and then all the details about former problems/home life came out and it was horrifying. That child will almost certainly end up spending most of his adult life in prison.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
I rarely go into KFC, due to the time it seems to take them to produce the "fast food" meal, but i have found most of the abuse is saved for the Morleys types shops. I'd like to see them behave like that in a proper Turkish kebab shop, the type where they keep a spare kebab knife to hand under the counter, lest anyone get a little too big for their boots.
I would agree with that. KFC have security at the weekends, and part of the place shuttered off. The Morleys or the Texas Fried Chicken places get people in who behave so aggressively towards the staff, accuse them of serving people out of turn, ask for more chips, try to confuse them about the change they have been given etc. And then there is often just stupid abuse with a crowd of them egging each other on.
It must be horrible to have to work at that time, smell of hot fat your whole life, burn yourself on the various cookers before you start to take the abuse into consideraiton.
editor
hiraethified
What's the background to this story?Be wary of these two aggressive suspected sneak thieves involved in a row with customers in San Marino cafe 11:20 this morning
View attachment 178586
editor
hiraethified
Just to point out the obvious: not all teenagers who steal stuff do it because they're living in poverty or starving. Some do it for sheer greed, for kicks, because they're bored or been bullied into doing it or as some sort of gang initiation or simply because for various reasons (see: capitalism/advertising/peer pressure) they feel their life isn't complete until they have the latest Nike £90 trainers/games console/phone/whatever.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
.....that Last bit goes for a significant number of adults too re general ATTiTUDE rather than just tea leafing.
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ricbake
working out how
They were acting suspiciously around bags etc., getting into personal space and then being aggressive.
Looked like it was a prelude to a bag snatch or pick pocketing, it appeared the taller one was trying to create a diversion.
Staff were concerned and a customer confronted them. It looked like it was going to kick off.
Police arrived and spent 10 minutes talking to the taller one, but he was allowed to go on his way, towards POP
ricbake
working out how
Surely you wouldn't want to deprive them of the £661.28p versions - they are "Essential"
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
As a general rule I don't try to disabuse people of their interpretations of what I say because I'm not into having bun fights and because if they were sincerely interested in what I'm saying then they'd read it. I say 'clearly' not to patronise but because you're posing a conclusion to an argument I didn't make.
I didn't make any class commentary here at all so it was clearly not what I was saying.
It seemed proportionate to kick them out and even to close the shop (I never said they shouldn't have followed their safety protocol), I didn't even say that they should expect or endure abuse, I said it would be disproportionate, and it would disproportionately impact on their future life chances to have them charged with an offence.
Can there be no response other than 'string 'em up'?
theboris
Well-Known Member
It's not just the police cuts. It's all the other austerity-driven cuts to social care, mental health services, Sure Start etc. This means the plod are having to be social workers / mental health workers / youth workers / para medics etc. And it's not really what they are trained for
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