Brixton news, rumours and general chat - March 2017

[urbanspaceman]

I just checked. I have chosen settings to partially obscure my address. So: I publish the name of the road I live on, which I'm content for people to know, but not the number. On the map, when you click on the green house that I live in, it returns:

1 member
NEXTDOOR MEMBERS

Address not shared
Mervan Road

On reflection, I'm not even particularly bothered if some of my neighbours know my address. After all, all the big players: UK Government, Facebook, NSA, Amazon, FSB, Google, Five Eyes, can know far more about me than my neighbours. And presumably my neighbours harbour more benign intentions for me than does the Military-Industrial-Entertainment complex. So I have decided to be less paranoid about disclosure, a change that doesn't come easily - but I have noted that my teaching clients, who are about 30 years younger than me, are completely relaxed about living their lives publicly, and it's their world now. Time to retire the tinfoil hat.

"…Because you made a phone call…"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4Q3A0jvKY

Jan 1999: The CEO of Sun Microsystems said Monday that consumer privacy issues are a "red herring." "You have zero privacy anyway," Scott McNealy told a group of reporters and analysts Monday night at an event to launch his company's new Jini technology. "Get over it."

 

[editor]

You spend your life lamenting the lack of drinking spots and criticising eateries.

Except I don't and you're a petty, pointless liar.

 

[editor]

Didn't the Phoenix guys own their property?

Yep and they capitalised on the gentrification of the area. But we've lost two cafes right outside my door.

 

[editor]

It's different from and more immediately useful than U75, in that there are no tedious and monomaniacal multi-page flame wars about which poster holds the more virtuous ideological beliefs. None of the Nextdoor users - so far - feel compelled to launch jihad against others for incorrect thinking.

No but you are handing over some very, very personal data to a bunch of venture capitalists run by a convicted hit and run driver. There's no way that I'd give them my details.

Nextdoor: Where Privacy Is a Double-Edged Sword

Author Pendarvis Harashaw accused Nextdoor's members of engaging in racial profiling: "While Nextdoor's ability to assist in crime-spotting has been celebrated as its 'killer feature' by tech pundits, the app is also facilitating some of the same racial profiling we see playing out in cities across the country. Rather than bridging gaps between neighbors, Nextdoor can become a forum for paranoid racialism—the equivalent of the nosy Neighborhood Watch appointee in a gated community."[23] Sam Levin of the East Bay Express did a detailed story on the harm caused by racial profiling and problems with moderators on Nextdoor in Oakland, California.[24] Nextdoor has guidelines against postings that are discriminatory or engage in profiling, saying, "it's inappropriate to report suspicious activity in a way that focuses primarily on the appearance of those involved rather than their actions."[25]

Nextdoor - Wikipedia

And here comes the 'sponsored content'

Until this year, Nextdoor had been entirely funded by venture capital firms including Benchmark, Greylock Partners, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, Tiger Global Management and others.

Recently, we have begun testing sponsored content from a select group of businesses who we believe have valuable products and services to share with Nextdoor's members.

We have always believed that there is a tremendous opportunity to connect neighbors with businesses that serve the local community. Testing sponsored posts will help us achieve this goal while generating the revenue we need to create a sustainable business.

 

[CH1]

I moved over from Streetlink to Nextdoor, but then saw that they had shaded my house in in green to show everyone where I lived. I tried changing it to 'show my street only' but my house remained shaded in, so I deleted the account.

I think you mean Streetlife - which seems to have been bought up by Nextdoor.

urbanspaceman I know what you mean re grinding axes on Urban75, but for me it has a kind of "alternative" cachet which I find attractive.

I might find a micro area site round East Brixton a bit interesting, but in a way we already have this in the LJ/Coldharbour threads here.

Isn't Nextdoor remotely and unaccountably moderated. Like I wonder if you get deleted for slagging of the council for example?

Your concern about air quality meetings is a good use.

 

[urbanspaceman]

No but you are handing over some very, very personal data to a bunch of venture capitalists run by a convicted hit and run driver. There's no way that I'd give them my details.

Nextdoor: Where Privacy Is a Double-Edged Sword


Nextdoor - Wikipedia

And here comes the 'sponsored content'

Well, I was a VC myself once, and I'm just plain adorable. So I don't think that the nature of Nextdoor's funding is necessarily the Mark of Cain.

As for the "hit-and-run", he of course should have stopped. Bay Area entrepreneurs are usually narcissistic assholes. But on further delving, it turns out that it wasn't "hit and run" in the British sense of car-versus-pedestrian. Tolia made a mess of overtaking a car on the freeway. He didn't hit it, but the driver of the other car had to swerve and so lost control. In the end it was downgraded to misdemenour and he got a $239 fine and some community service. So yes, you told the precise truth when saying "convicted hit and run driver".

Turning to racial profiling and general nastiness: there is of course no sign of that among the Brixton Nextdoor users. I suggest that the problem here is not Nextdoor, but the nature of the community itself. I've lived in the USA for two extended periods now, and am struck by the chronic and pervading miasma of fear, even in the most placid of suburbs. To an extent quite unhinged by British standards, people in general live in state of anxiety, stoked by the media. And not far beneath the surface lies indoctrinated fear of dark-skinned people.

I suggest that Nextdoor reveals a neighbourhood's character, but does not create it.

Anecdote: I bought a house in the sleepiest of suburbs, in Bellevue WA. I observed to my realtor that there were few non-white faces around (it seemed strange having arrived from Brixton the week before). He said "No we don't have that problem around here". What he didn't tell me was what had occurred in the house opposite mine a few months before. www.wikiwand.com/en/Bellevue_murders

So people in the USA live humdrum lives, occasionally punctuated by spasms of surreal hyper violence, completely alien to the British experience. For instance: two of my colleagues (out of 120 staff) were shot in the head in a two year period, one in the garage at the airport, and one on a trip to Boston. Hence the paranoia/ugliness on Nextdoor USA, and why it does not transfer to the UK.

 

[editor]

Well, I was a VC myself once, and I'm just plain adorable. So I don't think that the nature of Nextdoor's funding is necessarily the Mark of Cain.

As for the "hit-and-run", he of course should have stopped. Bay Area entrepreneurs are usually narcissistic assholes. But on further delving, it turns out that it wasn't "hit and run" in the British sense of car-versus-pedestrian. Tolia made a mess of overtaking a car on the freeway. He didn't hit it, but the driver of the other car had to swerve and so lost control. In the end it was downgraded to misdemenour and he got a $239 fine and some community service. So yes, you told the precise truth when saying "convicted hit and run driver".

Turning to racial profiling and general nastiness: there is of course no sign of that among the Brixton Nextdoor users. I suggest that the problem here is not Nextdoor, but the nature of the community itself. I've lived in the USA for two extended periods now, and am struck by the chronic and pervading miasma of fear, even in the most placid of suburbs. To an extent that is quite unhinged by British standards, people in general live in state of anxiety, stoked by the media. And not far beneath the surface lies indoctrinated fear of dark-skinned people. I suggest that Nextdoor reveals the neighbourhood's character, but does not create it.

Anecdote: I bought a house in the sleepiest of suburbs, in Bellevue WA. I observed to my realtor that there were few non-white faces around (it seemed strange having arrived from Brixton the week before). He said "No we don't have that problem around here". What he didn't tell me was what had occurred in the house opposite mine a few months before. www.wikiwand.com/en/Bellevue_murders

So people in the USA live humdrum lives, occasionally punctuated by spasms of surreal hyper violence, completely alien to the British experience. For instance: two of my colleagues (out of 120 staff) were shot in the head in a two year period, one in the garage at the airport, and one on a trip to Boston. Hence the paranoia/ugliness on Nextdoor USA, and why it does not transfer to the UK.

Hey, if you want to hand over your personal data to a bunch of US-based venture capitalists, don't let me get in the way! There's no way am I signing up to this.

 

[urbanspaceman]

I think you mean Streetlife - which seems to have been bought up by Nextdoor.

urbanspaceman I know what you mean re grinding axes on Urban75, but for me it has a kind of "alternative" cachet which I find attractive.

I might find a micro area site round East Brixton a bit interesting, but in a way we already have this in the LJ/Coldharbour threads here.

Isn't Nextdoor remotely and unaccountably moderated. Like I wonder if you get deleted for slagging of the council for example?

Your concern about air quality meetings is a good use.

Nextdoor seems to arranged on ward basis, so you could restrict your comms to the LJ ward, which has 176 members. I wonder if U75 or Nextdoor is more inclusive/diverse/civil ? Many people might find the harsh and judgemental tone of many U75 posters to be quite off-putting.

I haven't noticed any moderation by Nextdoor at all yet. But people are using it for constructive purposes, and all the exchanges have been courteous.

I've been a member and occasional contributor to U75 for many years, but am finding it increasingly pointless and depressing. Posters seem to be cruising for multi-page vendettas, complaining about things that they can't change, and verbally patrolling for the slightest ideological deviation.

 

[editor]

I think you mean Streetlife - which seems to have been bought up by Nextdoor.

urbanspaceman I know what you mean re grinding axes on Urban75, but for me it has a kind of "alternative" cachet which I find attractive.

I might find a micro area site round East Brixton a bit interesting, but in a way we already have this in the LJ/Coldharbour threads here.

Isn't Nextdoor remotely and unaccountably moderated. Like I wonder if you get deleted for slagging of the council for example?

Your concern about air quality meetings is a good use.

Their reviews don't seem so glowing:

Nextdoor
NextDoor boots reporter for reporting on police press conference
Nextdoor.com should do more to protect users’ details | Letters

 

[editor]

I've been a member and occasional contributor to U75 for many years, but am finding it increasingly pointless and depressing. Posters seem to be cruising for multi-page vendettas, complaining about things that they can't change, and verbally patrolling for the slightest ideological deviation.

I'd agree that there is a problem with certain posters and threads, but would encourage the use of the of the 'ignore' function. I think I may have given up on the place if I hadn't started using it myself. Shame it came to that though as I'd never ignored anyone here for 15 years before that.

 

[urbanspaceman]

I checked, and this is the info that I have provided to Nextdoor: my real name, my address, how long I've lived there and my email address, . And that's it. All the entities I mentioned upthread have far more data on me. Consider Amazon: armed with a 17 year record of my searches and purchases, Amazon could build a frighteningly detailed model of me, far more granular than Nextdoor. I realise the Nextdoor and U75 are sort-of competitors, but just repeating the phrase "Venture Capitalist" like it's the boogeyman isn't really convincing.

 

[editor]

I checked, and this is the info that I have provided to Nextdoor: my real name, my address, how long I've lived there and my email address, . And that's it. All the entities I mentioned upthread have far more data on me. Consider Amazon: armed with a 17 year record of my searches and purchases, Amazon could build a frighteningly detailed model of me, far more granular than Nextdoor. I realise the Nextdoor and U75 are sort-of competitors, but just repeating the phrase "Venture Capitalist" like it's the boogeyman isn't really convincing.

It helps highlight the massive differences though. I'm not interested in your personal data, I'm not interested in building up a profile for advertisers neither am I interested in your money or making profits for myself.

I tend to have an inherent distrust when I'm being asked to hand over my personal details to such companies. If you're OK with that, then that's fine too.

 

[editor]

The problem I have with Nextdoor is the same problem I have with NSA surveillance, or any other unwarranted infringement of privacy. The power is always one-sided. People on Nextdoor only reveal their paranoia to an exclusive social network (until some writer publishes an article about them). For the person having their worst day ever, the person who yells at a child, or asks for money, or pilfers a trashcan, the balance is not in their favor. You could have your picture posted online, your child reported to protective services, and your freedom taken away by police officers. Aided and abetted by an army of informants.

Nextdoor: Tool for good or another paranoid cog in the spy machine?

 

[urbanspaceman]

I'll wind up here. All in can do is point to facts: 1) Nextdoor has only the small amount of data on me, as detailed above, 2) other institutions have far more, 3) all the interactions on Nextdoor Brixton wards so far have been polite, constructive and helpful.

Upthread, I tried to explain why Nextdoor behaviour in the USA is different from that in the UK. I suppose it comes down to this: do you believe that the people of our beloved Brixton are just waiting to turn into Nextdoor-enabled racist Stasi informants ? If so, then Brixton doesn't adhere to the narrative of diversity and tolerance that U75 members are so invested in.

Advertising is feature of any market economy - I don't mind a bit of advertising. What bugs me is that even after two decades of data fusion, its still so poorly targeted.

 

[Rushy]

Didn't [the owner of*] Urban75 fairly recently use some off-message poster's ip address to trace and contact their employers? And when pulled up on it, argued that [there was nothing inherently wrong with this because he collected the identifying IP data from posts on another of his sites, Urban75's sister site Brixton Buzz*]?

* edited.

 

[editor]

Didn't Urban75 fairly recently use some off-message poster's ip address to trace and contact their employers. And when pulled up on it, argued that anyone who used a work computer and expected their data to be treated as private was sadly misguided?

Seeing as you're publicly making this serious allegation, I'm going to take you off ignore and ask you to back this up with some hard facts immediately please.

 

[editor]

Back in the real world, this looks to be a great book:
Sound System – a fascinating book of raves, riots and revolution, released by Brixton musician Dave Randall

 

[elmpp]

Except I don't and you're a petty, pointless liar.

I am not a liar. I just find your patter incredibly stubborn and disdainful.

Pointless pressing for an apology, probably be banned

 

[editor]

I am not a liar. I just find your patter incredibly stubborn and disdainful.

What you posted up was untruthful. A lie. If you continue to try and cause disruption in this thread by posting up lies you will be banned, so it's really up to you.

 

[elmpp]

jawohl

 

[teuchter]

I have been a bit suspicious of Nextdoor but am thinking of giving it a go.

Can only really judge their moderation policy by seeing it in action, just as on u75. Who moderates it? Nominated local members, or someone remotely?

As regards privacy - I think the answer is that you simply bear in mind the information that the owners and other posters have you about you, whenever you decide to say something publicly. Again, just like u75.

It has to be said that one of the positives of u75 is that it doesn't require any personal details. This means that people can say things that they wouldn't necessarily say if it was linked to their personal or work identity, which can make for more interesting discussions, as well as less cordial ones.

Regarding advertising: does Nextdoor have a sister news/owners' rants website that it continually spams threads with links to?

I imagine there's room for both types of forum to exist side by side.

 

[editor]

Note: teuchter is on a temp ban after picking up sufficient warning points by continuing to break the terms of mutual ignore and continuing to do so after receiving multiple warnings. If anyone wishes to discuss this, please take it to the feedback forum.

 

[editor]

Re: cheap cafes - you won't find much better value than Sam's on Acre Lane - the food is good and the portions are huge. The lighting/decor is a bit harsh, mind

 

[CH1]

I checked, and this is the info that I have provided to Nextdoor: my real name, my address, how long I've lived there and my email address, . And that's it. All the entities I mentioned upthread have far more data on me. Consider Amazon: armed with a 17 year record of my searches and purchases, Amazon could build a frighteningly detailed model of me, far more granular than Nextdoor. I realise the Nextdoor and U75 are sort-of competitors, but just repeating the phrase "Venture Capitalist" like it's the boogeyman isn't really convincing.

Personally I don't like the idea of giving name address and email address together with length of residence.

I am currently (still) dealing with an issue where someone ordered an iphone in my name - apparently just using my name and address and I have a bill I am disputing for £698.23 from BT mobile for ceasing a contract I never entered in the first place.

It is surely not wise for everybody to disclose personal details so they are openly available online. It would make scams even easier.

As far as I know neither Facebook, Twitter nor LinkedIn publish this personal information - unless you do it yourself.

 

[SpamMisery]

Wtf was that warning for?! Madness

 

[discobastard]

I checked, and this is the info that I have provided to Nextdoor: my real name, my address, how long I've lived there and my email address, . And that's it. All the entities I mentioned upthread have far more data on me. Consider Amazon: armed with a 17 year record of my searches and purchases, Amazon could build a frighteningly detailed model of me, far more granular than Nextdoor. I realise the Nextdoor and U75 are sort-of competitors, but just repeating the phrase "Venture Capitalist" like it's the boogeyman isn't really convincing.

And with Amazon Echo and Google Home or whatever, that picture is only going to get more and more personal. Imagine what they'll know about you after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years of using it? Who lives there, what time you get up, what time you go to bed, when you leave the house. There are uses for that information I am sure that haven't been thought of yet. Even if you assume they are not used as devices for spying on people (not even going to go there) it's pretty mind boggling to think what it will reveal about people.

 

[urbanspaceman]

Personally I don't like the idea of giving name address and email address together with length of residence.

I am currently (still) dealing with an issue where someone ordered an iphone in my name - apparently just using my name and address and I have a bill I am disputing for £698.23 from BT mobile for ceasing a contract I never entered in the first place.

It is surely not wise for everybody to disclose personal details so they are openly available online. It would make scams even easier.

As far as I know neither Facebook, Twitter nor LinkedIn publish this personal information - unless you do it yourself.

And after ten minutes of Google-fu, I have found out this about you:

your real full name
street address
birth date
company affiliations
various political and community activities
full career profile
educational history
list of "friends" and business associates
full timeline of your life (enabling a good guess as to how long you've lived in Brixton)
extensive info on your cultural/media/entertainment/political tastes and opinions
many photos
list of places you've visited (how was Bremen ?)

Ten minutes. And I'm not a GCHQ quantum supercomputer or Google AI, which could do all that in a millisecond, while accessing paid databases (credit, criminal, etc.) and then go on compile a network analysis of your friends/colleagues and their affiliations.

Also 48 UK government agencies have access to your browsing history.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3971214/The-48-organisations-entire-online-browsing-history-delete-it.html

Privacy is over.

 

[editor]

I'd love to see someone have a bash at working out my 'full career profile.' There's obviously bits out there (like my web work) but even I don't know half of the people I've worked for. Not that I particularly care. It's not a very interesting read.

 

[CH1]

And after ten minutes of Google-fu, I have found out this about you:

your real full name
street address
birth date
company affiliations
various political and community activities
full career profile
educational history
list of "friends" and business associates
full timeline of your life (enabling a good guess as to how long you've lived in Brixton)
extensive info on your cultural/media/entertainment/political tastes and opinions
many photos
list of places you've visited (how was Bremen ?)

Since you've raised this - I would just like to comment that Britain - and even more so the USA - seem very paranoid about privacy even though this attitude clearly facilitates crime.

I remember the first time I went to Ghana in 1993 how closely people monitored each other - through gossip basically. Few people had mobile phones back then in Ghana. Yet you might be told what you had for breakfast an hour ago in a town 20 miles away.

I remember visiting the Ghana country manager for World Online around 1998 (then part of African Lakes Corporation - before the company went bust in the DotCom crash). He was a black guy who had been brought up in London and worked in USA. He loved it in Accra.

He said something like "The crime rate here is amazing - negligible. They have about 2 murders a year, and nobody has guns. It's really the ideal place to bring up your kids"

I guess at that time Ghana was a self-policing community, which seems to be the issue with Nextdoor. Some people welcome it as a form of neighbourhood watch - others object that it is oppressive of minorities.

I still don't feel comfortable with broadcasting my personal data - am I deluded to tear the bank account details and name and address off bank statements before putting them in the recycling bin outside my house?

 

[editor]

I guess at that time Ghana was a self-policing community, which seems to be the issue with Nextdoor. Some people welcome it as a form of neighbourhood watch - others object that it is oppressive of minorities.?

Well, it's only a self selecting neighbourhood watch. A lot of people on my estate aren't even on the web so they'd never join or learn what's being said about them.

At least this site is open to all and not hidden from view for those who don't want to hand over their personal details to a lesser known company.