sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Are you on the payroll of Lambeth council thebackrow ?. Like the cyclists?
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
So you keep saying,
except that you don't - when it actually comes down to it you refuse to answer them and resort to ad hom attacks
chowce5382
Active Member
I’ve been answering your questions since I came on here, main one recently being the questions you had about the Oval LTN. Sorry you feel that I’ve been attacking you. This seems quite personal so, as I said, let’s just leave it there
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
whatever.
it’s going to be interesting to see the outcome of the case. Based on what’s been explained here it seems very unlikely that any LTNs will be removed whatever the result since this is they’re being challenged on process not principle. The government is calling for more LTNs, as is TfL (who won the appeal on streetspace) so the idea that they are fundamentally discriminatory seems far fetched.
I suppose there might be a few tweaks to allow blue badges through bus gates (which has just been announced in Hackney). Perhaps that’s enough for you but like the cabbies and bidhopsgate I’m guessing there will be a lot more cries of “the fight goes on”
Nice! Not convinced you aren’t behind the Twitter account tbh.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Judicial Review are one way ordinary people can hold the executive to account. They are limited as the judiciary cannot usurp the executive.
Cressingham Gardens have used them. It doesn't stop an obstinate local authority like New Labour Lambeth from ploughing on despite losing first time. Eventually they will get their way.
Unlike hard pressed residents Councils like Lambeth have deep pockets when it comes to litigation.
I can understand why local residents use a mechanism like a JR.
To argue that it won't make a difference in practise shows the power difference between those who decide (the executive) and those who are subject to the executive (the ordinary Joe).
One of the problems with legal system in this country is that its adversarial. Its not about learning from mistakes or an open discussion.
Cressingham Gardens have used them. It doesn't stop an obstinate local authority like New Labour Lambeth from ploughing on despite losing first time. Eventually they will get their way.
Unlike hard pressed residents Councils like Lambeth have deep pockets when it comes to litigation.
I can understand why local residents use a mechanism like a JR.
To argue that it won't make a difference in practise shows the power difference between those who decide (the executive) and those who are subject to the executive (the ordinary Joe).
One of the problems with legal system in this country is that its adversarial. Its not about learning from mistakes or an open discussion.
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snowy_again
Slush
People’s Front of One Lambeth (‘we are cyclists and car drivers’ says their website) are back on their Twitter anti cycling agenda...
It’s weird - it’s almost like they’re just a pro car lobby group…
a very pro disabled, pro cyclist car lobby
newbie
undisambiguated
I haven't regretted giving up on this thread, but I want to put this here in case it gets missed. I said last year that all the new cyclists were being put in danger by the starry eyed propaganda from the cycling evangelists and here are some figures.
www.theguardian.com
from Reported road casualties Great Britain, provisional results: 2020
I've no doubt I'll be told it's all the fault of the car drivers: none the less, a 40% increase in cycling deaths in a year when traffic has been so low and all other fatalities were well down is far more shocking than I anticipated.
My anecdata observation is that the standard of driving hasn't changed much, what's changed is the number of innocent but untrained and very inexperienced cyclists, who've been conned into thinking that the cosy LTNs make their journey safe. They don't, it's still very dangerous to cycle on busy roads and the people who promote the fiction that that's changed bear a heavy responsibility.
Cyclist fatalities on British roads rose by 40% in 2020, says DfT
AA says increase revealed in official figures is ‘staggering’, as cycling groups blame dangerous driving
from Reported road casualties Great Britain, provisional results: 2020
I've no doubt I'll be told it's all the fault of the car drivers: none the less, a 40% increase in cycling deaths in a year when traffic has been so low and all other fatalities were well down is far more shocking than I anticipated.
My anecdata observation is that the standard of driving hasn't changed much, what's changed is the number of innocent but untrained and very inexperienced cyclists, who've been conned into thinking that the cosy LTNs make their journey safe. They don't, it's still very dangerous to cycle on busy roads and the people who promote the fiction that that's changed bear a heavy responsibility.
snowy_again
Slush
newbie The number of deaths and KSIs proportionately decreased - more people cycling massive larger number of miles.
That’s even quoted in the guardian article:
“The DfT thus calculated that the overall casualty rate for cyclists, the number of deaths or injuries per mile travelled, fell by 34% in 2020 against the year before, the biggest drop for any road user type.”
That’s even quoted in the guardian article:
“The DfT thus calculated that the overall casualty rate for cyclists, the number of deaths or injuries per mile travelled, fell by 34% in 2020 against the year before, the biggest drop for any road user type.”
I haven't regretted giving up on this thread, but I want to put this here in case it gets missed. I said last year that all the new cyclists were being put in danger by the starry eyed propaganda from the cycling evangelists and here are some figures.
Cyclist fatalities on British roads rose by 40% in 2020, says DfT
AA says increase revealed in official figures is ‘staggering’, as cycling groups blame dangerous driving
View attachment 275290
from Reported road casualties Great Britain, provisional results: 2020
I've no doubt I'll be told it's all the fault of the car drivers: none the less, a 40% increase in cycling deaths in a year when traffic has been so low and all other fatalities were well down is far more shocking than I anticipated.
My anecdata observation is that the standard of driving hasn't changed much, what's changed is the number of innocent but untrained and very inexperienced cyclists, who've been conned into thinking that the cosy LTNs make their journey safe. They don't, it's still very dangerous to cycle on busy roads and the people who promote the fiction that that's changed bear a heavy responsibility.
This sounds quite a lot like victim blaming tbh.
Also, you’re blaming LTNs for these increased deaths, any evidence?
I got close passed on Brixton Water Lane yesterday by a guy on his phone whilst driving - he said I shouldn’t be in the middle of the lane… so many dangerous drivers and lots of hatred towards cyclists.
newbie
undisambiguated
That's precisely my point. New cyclists were encouraged onto the roads, every available bike was bought, and too many of them ended up dead or injured.
That doesn't count as success in my book.
So cycling got safer but because more people cycled & that meant more deaths we should therefore just stop people cycling?
LTNs take up a tiny fraction of the total amount of all roads and have been in place since the 1970’s. How many fatalities were caused by other cyclists? I’m guessing close to 0. Speed is the biggest factor in many fatal road accidents. The main complaint against the new LTNs seems to be excess congestion, i.e. motorised vehicles not moving very fast so I can’t see that contributing to the deaths of cyclists. Being on your mobile phone whilst driving, I’ve lost count how many times I’ve seen it as a pedestrian. It’s clear however that a combination of better cycling infrastructure and education for all road users is the way forward, it feels way too confrontational from both sides at present stoked up by social media and some shock jocks.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
That's a staggering bit of victim blaming and deflection. Can you actually post up anything where people say it's safer to cycle on busy roads now?.I haven't regretted giving up on this thread, but I want to put this here in case it gets missed. I said last year that all the new cyclists were being put in danger by the starry eyed propaganda from the cycling evangelists and here are some figures.
Cyclist fatalities on British roads rose by 40% in 2020, says DfT
AA says increase revealed in official figures is ‘staggering’, as cycling groups blame dangerous driving
View attachment 275290
from Reported road casualties Great Britain, provisional results: 2020
I've no doubt I'll be told it's all the fault of the car drivers: none the less, a 40% increase in cycling deaths in a year when traffic has been so low and all other fatalities were well down is far more shocking than I anticipated.
My anecdata observation is that the standard of driving hasn't changed much, what's changed is the number of innocent but untrained and very inexperienced cyclists, who've been conned into thinking that the cosy LTNs make their journey safe. They don't, it's still very dangerous to cycle on busy roads and the people who promote the fiction that that's changed bear a heavy responsibility.
snowy_again
Slush
No it doesn’t (mean that). It’s basic maths they teach 14 year olds.
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Yep - numbers cycling in definitely much larger than before COVID and I imagine will increase even more as & when people start coming back.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
newbie
undisambiguated
I did read it. 140 cyclists are dead.
We're not told to what extent pedestrian mileage has increased, though it clearly has, but if the cycling casualty rate had fallen to the same extent as pedestrians there would have been around 75 deaths.
That is not a successful strategy.
But we shouldn’t ban driving which kills at least 10x more people
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Hang on, how do you know the rate for pedestrians when you don't know the mileage?
newbie
undisambiguated
fairplay, my sloppy use of language.
We're not told to what extent pedestrian mileage has increased, though it clearly has, but if the cycling casualties had fallen to the same extent as pedestrians there would have been around 75 deaths.
snowy_again
Slush
We
As an aside, these are UK wide figures, not London specific.
But somehow a splashy, alarmist headline from the Automobile Association who state
“Since day one, back in June 1905, our goal has been the same: to protect motorists and put their interests first”
Seems to have you assuming their bias.
If we’re doing anecdata, the level of cycling has increased so much that the present segregated infrastructure in some places is no longer big enough. Vauxhall Cross for example is rammed in commuting times and still busy outside those times. Same with the west end. Just look at the counters on the embankment paths.
The number of parents riding or scooting their children in LTNs and outside them is massively up and are still there on rainy days.
EBikes are inevitably outselling cars.
Again, those stats are literally in the source you quoted - look at the DfT links in the article - it has updated stats on walking, cycling and driving rates and distances in the period covered.
As an aside, these are UK wide figures, not London specific.
But somehow a splashy, alarmist headline from the Automobile Association who state
“Since day one, back in June 1905, our goal has been the same: to protect motorists and put their interests first”
Seems to have you assuming their bias.
If we’re doing anecdata, the level of cycling has increased so much that the present segregated infrastructure in some places is no longer big enough. Vauxhall Cross for example is rammed in commuting times and still busy outside those times. Same with the west end. Just look at the counters on the embankment paths.
The number of parents riding or scooting their children in LTNs and outside them is massively up and are still there on rainy days.
EBikes are inevitably outselling cars.
newbie
undisambiguated
Are you reading the same DFT report as me? The one that says 'Pedestrian casualty rates will be provided in the September release when data on distance walked is available from the National Travel Survey.'
I have nothing good to say about the AA or any other motorist first organisation.
Irresponsibly encouraging people to cycle before adequate safe infrastructure is in place has contributed to the excess number of cyclists killed.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
A rise in the number of cyclists persuades politicians to cater for cyclists.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
It's not an excess number, the rate is falling while the other rates are increasing.
If you want some stats look at this, 70% of drivers exceeded the speed limit on residential roads (not your busy main roads) at the height of lockdown.
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