Brixton Fridge busted in massive police raid!
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
But they wouldn't have been. There is unlikely to have been ANY direct effect on general policing in Brixton as a result of this operation.Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
The only way you would make any difference would be close down the Clubs and Vice Unit, the TSG and the other specialist units involved and redeploy their officers to divisions. In which case you would probably find you got no more than a handful per response team back.
And then they would have to do all the things that the disbanded units now do ...
I am not defending the Met's deployment of resources as a whole - in fact I wonder where the hell the police officers have gone from response team policing - but a knee-jerk reaction to an operation like this is simply incorrect which befits the Daily Mail and "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells".
I think you will probably find all except the main targets dealt with by way of caution at worst.Maggot said:They are not being tolerant in this case.
And tolerance is not the same as abandoning all enforcement of a law.
If these operations were being mounted every day, in every area, with no targetting on particular, identified individuals or premises and with everyone found with a small bit of any controlled drug charged and prosecuted then you would be able to say that is intolerance (or zero tolerance as is the fashionable term).
The fact that is has received such coverage should illustrate how rare such a raid now is. We have yet to find out enough about the background to the case but I will be VERY surprised if it does not turn out that the particular venue has, at least in part, been the author of it's own demise and if the targetted dealers do not turn out to have been very, very busy over a long period of time.
As opposed the far more sensible tactic of ... er ... leaving the entrances and exits unguarded so that any suspects can escape and anyone wanting to join in for a bundle can do so ...Velouria said:
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Press Association c/o Hendo said:
I find it hard to believe someone with John Roberts' background would come up with the final sentence unprompted - think it is more likely down to (i) poor subbing by the PA of the Met's press release or (ii)the Met's press office somewhat overdoing it in their attempt to include a quotation from "the community" rather than just from police officers.
For the millionth fucking time ... the Metropolitan Police AUTHORITY is NOT the Metropolitan Police Service. They are policitians, magistrates, lay members who oversee the activity of the MPS. They have their own press department.lang rabbie said:
They are the COMMUNITY talking (or allegedly so) and telling the police what they want them to do.
See?:
MPA: http://www.mpa.gov.uk/default.htm
MPS: http://www.met.police.uk/
(The clue is in the web address: MPA = .GOV.uk ; MPS = .POLICE.uk)
waverunner
Be nice or I'll bite
(((detective-boy)))
Thank you hon.waverunner said:
* Goes for lie down *
Velouria
Long time lurker
As opposed to 'it's far harder to catch street dealers on demand for the camera as they have an awful habit of running away and sometimes escaping, which doesn't make a good photo op' ...detective-boy said:As opposed the far more sensible tactic of ... er ... leaving the entrances and exits unguarded so that any suspects can escape and anyone wanting to join in for a bundle can do so ...
to you too
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
There is a point that a law becomes unenforceable, if everybody chooses to ignore it. Here is a classic example of a law that has become very difficult to enforce as everbody seems fully intent on ignoring it, and when they enforce it it pisses off many of the people the police are there to protect.
lostexpectation
New Member
editor said:
There are very nice police press release now wheres the news coverage?
timothysutton1 said:
But you didn't read this, a few posts up from yours, did you?
detective boy said:
It wasn't the 'Brixton Police' in other words.
Would want to know more about detail here, tempted as I am to agree with han and Monkeygrinders -- it could well be that there was some organised, larger scale regular Class A dealing that MAY have been (in effect) ignored by in house security.
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
One question
All that attention focused on The Fridge, but can somebody with a little inside police knowledge tell me why it's still not safe to walk anywhere between Lorn Road / Vassall Road junctions of Brixton Road at night, and why, the last time I relayed my concerns to a police officer about the hassle I have had from crack dealer scum and general harassment from loiterers, I was told it wasn't their patch and to go and complain at Kennington Nick? Joined-up policing?
This is not having a go, I am just curious.
All that attention focused on The Fridge, but can somebody with a little inside police knowledge tell me why it's still not safe to walk anywhere between Lorn Road / Vassall Road junctions of Brixton Road at night, and why, the last time I relayed my concerns to a police officer about the hassle I have had from crack dealer scum and general harassment from loiterers, I was told it wasn't their patch and to go and complain at Kennington Nick? Joined-up policing?
This is not having a go, I am just curious.
The Community Police Consultative Group for Lambeth were given notice of this operation. Two of its Board attended the briefing earlier in the evening and were able to enter the club just after the first officers, to go where they wanted and speak to whom they wanted. We (one man, one woman) were clearly identifiable as independent observers, and we were able to explain who we were, to listen reactions to the raid and too reassure urselves that the proper protocols around searches and so on were being followed.
On the raid itself:
1. There was a pretty low key atmosphere in the club, in spite of (perhaps because of) the large number of police officers involved - pretty much like a party that had fizzled out early. Of the people we spoke to, most seemed philosophical, although one older guy who'd clearly been supping all day issued a torrent of abuse on whosoever went within earshot!
2. Most people I spoke to seemed to understand that local people were fed up with the notion that Brixton is a place to come and buy or sell drugs, and that the raid was part of that. although they were disappointed that their evening was brought to a close before it had barely started.
3. We had of course queried the proportionality of the raid ie whether it was necessary to use so many officers to arrest a small number of dealers of whom the police already had intelligence, not only in terms of the resource cost but also the impact of a large police contingent turning up in Brixton on a Saturday night.
The police's response was (1) that an operation such as this also entails a certain amount of evidence gathering which has to be done quickly and (in this case) throughout a large venue and (2) there had been a risk-assessment which had to cover the eventuality that it could go the wrong way eg someone pulls a knife, and both clubbers and police are put at risk. There comes a point where we have to have a regard for the police's professional assessment and to recognise that if they attempted an operation such as this with too few officers, and it went wrong, we'd all be very quick to (properly) fault them.
The question of the return on the outlay will be something that we shall take up when the full outcomes from the operation are reported.
The more general issue, of the distinctions between drug use and drug dealing, is a much more difficult one for the community (and for the police). It's clear that (at one end of the scale) there is widespread concern about open dealing in crack cocaine and heroin, or for cannabis dealing where it is in-your-face in the town centre, for example. But there is a much more varied attitude to the possession and use of 'recreational' drugs. Devising a policy which attracts the widest community consent, focussing first and foremost on dealing in the most dangerous drugs, is not an easy matter. It's inevitable that people who are not dealing, buying or selling, will get drawn into such a policy, given that the police have an obligation to enforce the law as it stands. People whom a sizable (though perhaps minority) section of the community do not regard as 'criminals' will be criminalised. We need to be clear, as a community, that if we wish to address dealing across the board, there will be costs that not everyone will be comfortable with and to find the best ways we can to determine where the community, in the broadest sense, wants the balance struck.
You can make your views known through the CPCG (contact details here) or by turning up at any of the monthly public meetings.
On the raid itself:
1. There was a pretty low key atmosphere in the club, in spite of (perhaps because of) the large number of police officers involved - pretty much like a party that had fizzled out early. Of the people we spoke to, most seemed philosophical, although one older guy who'd clearly been supping all day issued a torrent of abuse on whosoever went within earshot!
2. Most people I spoke to seemed to understand that local people were fed up with the notion that Brixton is a place to come and buy or sell drugs, and that the raid was part of that. although they were disappointed that their evening was brought to a close before it had barely started.
3. We had of course queried the proportionality of the raid ie whether it was necessary to use so many officers to arrest a small number of dealers of whom the police already had intelligence, not only in terms of the resource cost but also the impact of a large police contingent turning up in Brixton on a Saturday night.
The police's response was (1) that an operation such as this also entails a certain amount of evidence gathering which has to be done quickly and (in this case) throughout a large venue and (2) there had been a risk-assessment which had to cover the eventuality that it could go the wrong way eg someone pulls a knife, and both clubbers and police are put at risk. There comes a point where we have to have a regard for the police's professional assessment and to recognise that if they attempted an operation such as this with too few officers, and it went wrong, we'd all be very quick to (properly) fault them.
The question of the return on the outlay will be something that we shall take up when the full outcomes from the operation are reported.
The more general issue, of the distinctions between drug use and drug dealing, is a much more difficult one for the community (and for the police). It's clear that (at one end of the scale) there is widespread concern about open dealing in crack cocaine and heroin, or for cannabis dealing where it is in-your-face in the town centre, for example. But there is a much more varied attitude to the possession and use of 'recreational' drugs. Devising a policy which attracts the widest community consent, focussing first and foremost on dealing in the most dangerous drugs, is not an easy matter. It's inevitable that people who are not dealing, buying or selling, will get drawn into such a policy, given that the police have an obligation to enforce the law as it stands. People whom a sizable (though perhaps minority) section of the community do not regard as 'criminals' will be criminalised. We need to be clear, as a community, that if we wish to address dealing across the board, there will be costs that not everyone will be comfortable with and to find the best ways we can to determine where the community, in the broadest sense, wants the balance struck.
You can make your views known through the CPCG (contact details here) or by turning up at any of the monthly public meetings.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Thank u CPCG for explain this all to us, a worthy post indeed, i can understand the logic, it's weird it's all in the news maybe nuffin else is worth reporting right now! 
as far as remember the Fridge used to know when they were gonna be raided in the past, now they have different owners, perhaps they're not clued up.....
as far as remember the Fridge used to know when they were gonna be raided in the past, now they have different owners, perhaps they're not clued up.....
Interesting that two of the Community Police Consultative Group attended the raid, when it wasn't even the Lambeth Police directly involved, but a central squad ...
subversplat
writer of wrongs
Fridge gets raided, diets in perilsalem said:Easter weekend I guess, not much to report in genreal.
I told a mate that 'the fridge was raided' and he was like, what?
RushcroftRoader
Well-Known Member
looks likes the raid was as much about sending a message about dealing in Brixton as actually nicking a few scumbags.
Lots of "responding to community concerns" etc in PR outpourings from Lambeth police.
Can't be a bad thing in the long run. But how much did this operation cost? 200 officers!!
Geez, lets have a few more bobbies on the beat every night rather than carrying out headline grabbing raids like this one!
Lots of "responding to community concerns" etc in PR outpourings from Lambeth police.
Can't be a bad thing in the long run. But how much did this operation cost? 200 officers!!
Geez, lets have a few more bobbies on the beat every night rather than carrying out headline grabbing raids like this one!
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
Yeh!
Yeh! A few more bobbies on the beat! I suggest North Brixton - Jamm (Bar Lorca) onwards - north up to Oval...
Please?
Pretty Please MPS? Or Lambeth Police? Anyone? Right now I would take Police Academy - 1 to 5 is fine. Or even fucking Chief Wiggum.
Anyone listening? I thought this was suppposed to be policing by CONSENT? Well, I give my pleading CONSENT for more bobbies up there...
RushcroftRoader said:
Yeh! A few more bobbies on the beat! I suggest North Brixton - Jamm (Bar Lorca) onwards - north up to Oval...
Please?
Pretty Please MPS? Or Lambeth Police? Anyone? Right now I would take Police Academy - 1 to 5 is fine. Or even fucking Chief Wiggum.
Anyone listening? I thought this was suppposed to be policing by CONSENT? Well, I give my pleading CONSENT for more bobbies up there...
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
anyone with views on the police raid should email the Lambeth Community Police Consultative Group by clicking hereWednesdayite said:
If you were told that by a police officer then it is not acceptable. The approach would not be endorsed by senior managers. It would not be acceptable even if you complained at Brixton about something which was happening in (eg) Barnet but Kennington is part of the same borough police unit.Wednesdayite said:
You would be perfectly entitled to complain and I would encourage you to do so - if it were me I would make it plain I did not want some form of major enquiry launched but simply for the officer to be advised that their approach is unacceptable.
Oh dear! A Community Police Consultative Group ... er ... being consulted, observing, questioning and seeking views ... where WILL it all end!!!CPCG said:
(I used to love attending your meetings by the way - my Chief Superintendent at the time (Ted Peel) was a bit prone to throw the Inspector's responsible for the latest saga to the lions rather than take the flak himself. I know some of my colleagues used to hide under their desk as a result but I loved welcomed the opportunity to explain and, if necessary, apologise for getting something wrong ... never a dull moment indeed!!!!)
From what they say, it sounds more like a Lambeth problem which was then referred UP to the central unit for action on behalf of the local borough for whom the operation had got too big (one of the options I mentioned earlier on the other thread in the General forum http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4435868&postcount=42).William of Walworth said:
Even if it had been an entirely central unit initiative, planning for ALL operations now includes a consideration of the community impact. In the case of an operation on this scale it would be inevitable that that assessment involved contact with the local police division and, via them, with appropriate community groups (including the CPCG) as and when possible (sometimes in advance, as here, or sometimes as the operation commences if there are any fears of word leaking out).
It is good to see that the CPCG will ensure that they ask questions of the cost-benefit analysis in due course. That, for me, seems to be only issue - the operation has otherwise gone well.
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
Ok
Thanks for this. At least I don't feel like such an idiot now, as I did when I was told to go to Kennington.
By the way, 200 coppers raid the Fridge - that's a lot of hungry coppers!!!
detective-boy said:
Thanks for this. At least I don't feel like such an idiot now, as I did when I was told to go to Kennington.
By the way, 200 coppers raid the Fridge - that's a lot of hungry coppers!!!
RushcroftRoader
Well-Known Member
Wednesdayite said:Thanks for this. At least I don't feel like such an idiot now, as I did when I was told to go to Kennington.
By the way, 200 coppers raid the Fridge - that's a lot of hungry coppers!!!
anyone with a burger van close by must have done well!
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
detective-boy said:
Strangely enough, I knew that. And I have a sneaking suspicion that the MPA's press office is not heavily staffed over bank holiday weekends.
What I wanted to know was by what process did that quote (apparently out of touch with reality IMHO) end up being attributed by the Press Association to "independent" John Roberts in a story that otherwise appeared to be a cut and paste from a Metropolitan Police press release.
