'Brixton faces drugs policy U-turn'

[RushcroftRoader]

I used to buy off of the street dealers in Brixton. You know they will always be about so it's a service of sorts. The deals are not too bad, I prefer to buy elsewhere at a better cost too but it's a hassle to arrange sometimes.

All this drug tourist guff gets on my nerves. I live in Croydon and the place heaves with people from all over London puking up, having drunken screaming matches and throwing kebabs about. I don't mind, is it a case of NIMBYism going on about street dealers in Brixton?

Camden is a better bet anyway for a £10 bit of weed.

I saw a crack head shitting on my street the other day. NIMBYism?? No I don't think so.

 

[Nickster]

I want to know who these supposed "drug tourists" are. It's an honest question. Certainly when Paddick's experiment was going on there was a lot of people who came from elsewhere in London to buy stuff - I remember sitting in pub gardens all summer and hearing people repeating crap like "yeah....and do you know that weed is actually LEGAL in Brixton now.." But I don't see it anymore. I'm round Brixton all the time and I don't see swathes of nervous kids trying to buy weed on the street. Maybe I just don't notice it or something....but have you seen any evidence of these drug tourists recently?

I think a lot of it is bollocks really - Rachel Heywood and her mates trying to find a scapegoat for Brixton's problems that is as far away from the Council and police as possible.

Why would people come down to Brixton to try & score....it's sold on street corners all over London and I've even seen people selling it on Oxford Street!

I guess it's kind of ironic now that the police are proposing this change in policy - it was from the Lambeth police force that the evidence emerged about how much police time is saved by not arresting someone (by not filling in the 17 forms you have to fill in for each arrest, transporting them to the nick, processing them etc..). Now they want to go back to square one at one of their busiest times of year. There's an argument which says that the dealers etc will thrive because they'll be less coppers on the street due to the fact that they're all processing arrested users down the nick!

I live on Saltoun Road and have noticed a lot of the buyers are local, even live on Saltoun Road! All white, young, male, professional, middle-class, but without a clue about how their actions affect the neighbourhood they live in!

 

[Nickster]

I used to buy off of the street dealers in Brixton. You know they will always be about so it's a service of sorts. The deals are not too bad, I prefer to buy elsewhere at a better cost too but it's a hassle to arrange sometimes.

All this drug tourist guff gets on my nerves. I live in Croydon and the place heaves with people from all over London puking up, having drunken screaming matches and throwing kebabs about. I don't mind, is it a case of NIMBYism going on about street dealers in Brixton?

Camden is a better bet anyway for a £10 bit of weed.

You obviously have no idea about how this affects where you live. Druggies go where the dealers go and vice versa. Which means you are more likely to find used needles in your front porch (like i did last week) or your neighbour robbed at knifepoint (last month)

 

[christonabike]

"I live on Saltoun Road and have noticed a lot of the buyers are local"

Local dealers for local people

What's wrong with that?

 

[tarannau]

You obviously have no idea about how this affects where you live. Druggies go where the dealers go and vice versa. Which means you are more likely to find used needles in your front porch (like i did last week) or your neighbour robbed at knifepoint (last month)

Yes, but aren't there two separate issues here:

1) Chaotic drug users travelling between sites like Brixton and Camden in search of harder drugs. Often heavily addicted, in need of help and likely to be involved in crime of some sort to fund their (very) regular habit.
2) Opportunistic purchasers trying their luck purchasing recreational drugs around Brixton (generally weed). Perhaps middle-class locals or visitors, unlikely to have to steal to fund their occasional visit. Unlikely to be the ones shouting abuse down Rushcroft Road at 4am in the morning and shitting in gardens.

The thing which potentially annoys me about the way this police initiative is presented is that the aim seems to be to crack down on the second group to make an example, giving the bizarre reasoning that it may affect the first

They're easier targets for sure, but it strikes me as a cowardly white flag from the police - as if they find it too unpleasant to tackle the harder users (who most need help) and properly take on the worst of the dealers and thus want a simpler, press-friendly option. It fails on so many levels for me - occasional purchasers are unlikely to hear about this initiative and be discouraged from buying. And, put mildly, the dealers are unlikely to give a shite whether their punters are getting arrested or not - hell, the ones that sell oregano/oxo whatever may even be glad of the distraction.

Crap window dressing rather than effective policy imo...

 

[tobyjug]

"I live on Saltoun Road and have noticed a lot of the buyers are local"

Local dealers for local people

What's wrong with that?

Dealers able to deal on the street with impunity is a sure sign an area has turned into a toilet.

 

[Blagsta]

Dealers able to deal on the street with impunity is a sure sign an area has turned into a toilet.

Do you live in Brixton? Or even know anything about it? No. I don't comment on where you live being a "toilet", so please refrain from commenting on where I live, especially as you know nothing about it.

 

[tarannau]

Dealers able to deal on the street with impunity is a sure sign an area has turned into a toilet.

You don't half speak a load of crap Toby. That's certainly not true - you can buy drugs easily on the streets of some of the world's best cities, from Lisbon to Barcelona, even in posher areas of London without any trouble. A man on a bicycle can deliver to you in any part of Notting Hill or Westbourne Grove within 30 mins for example...

Putting aside your personal opinions for a second, you must concede that there can be a huge difference in the degree and type of street dealing, all of which lead to very different effects on the surrouding area.

Street dealers have existed in areas for decades without causing the same kinds of problems as the whistling gangs and yardie crack-vendors.

 

[christonabike]

Not necessarily a "sure sign" Tobyjug

Your catch all statements don't work around here, (the three areas of Brixton that I have lived in)

It may lead to what you say, but not definately

ps. not parroting, I was posting while Blagsta and tarranau were

 

[grosun]

Dealers able to deal on the street with impunity is a sure sign an area has turned into a toilet.

...there was me thinking it was people shitting in the street with impunity.

 

[tarannau]

...there was me thinking it was people shitting in the street with impunity.

BOOM TISH!

 

[tobyjug]

Not necessarily a "sure sign" Tobyjug

If the people in an area will tolerate overt drug dealing the place is a toilet.
Luckily I live in an area where overt drug dealing is not tolerated.
I prefer not to live in a lawless shithouse thanks very much.

 

[christonabike]

You don't

Mine isn't

Differ?

Happily

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

If the people in an area will tolerate overt drug dealing the place is a toilet.
Luckily I live in an area where overt drug dealing is not tolerated.
I prefer not to live in a lawless shithouse thanks very much.

OK fine. Maybe you can leave this discussion alone then, because a lot of people DO live in the area and would like to have a proper discussion without you butting in.

 

[newbie]

you also prefer to get each and every 'tobyjug fact' from teletext, daytime TV or your local freesheet.

As is perfectly apparent.

 

[netbob]

If the people in an area will tolerate overt drug dealing the place is a toilet.
Luckily I live in an area where overt drug dealing is not tolerated.
I prefer not to live in a lawless shithouse thanks very much.

Its not a case of tolerating.

"excuse me Mr crack dealer, would you mind awfully moving along"

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Luckily I live in an area where overt drug dealing is not tolerated. I prefer not to live in a lawless shithouse thanks very much.

So tell us Brixtonites, toby, exactly how DO you manage to keep your own neighbourhood so clean? What is it that you do to show non-tolerance of dealing? What would you do if the whistling yardies moved into your road?

Perhaps you'd like to join Lambeth Council and show us all how to "not tolerate" drug dealing.

 

[tarannau]

Oh come on, haven't you heard Toby's vigilante fantasies before. There was the whole hushed up saga of the kids and the kidnapped bus IIRC, not to mention the time he provided a safe house for his nephew from High Wycombe who was the victim of an 'afro caribbean gang' from that 'multicultural slum.' You should have heard Tobes' violent fantasies about how he would have taken out the leader once he had heard what that guy had said to his wife - like Edward Woodward (plus a few years) he'd have certainly equalised the score...



Only problem is that I used to run the local nightclub in High Wycombe, lived in one of the rougher estates (apparently) . Savage Henry lived there for over 25 years. And none of us could recognise the ludicrous portrayal of the High Wycombe area, or the characters involved.

Strange grasp on reality that man. I'm sure he genuinely believes he's a cross between Charlie Bronson and Judge Dredd, cleaning up his neighbourhood by virtue of constantly misquoting 'facts' from Teletext, 2-bit TV shows and his local paper. Best treat with a hefty oceanworth's of salt I reckon...

 

[Kiddo-Whizz]

If the people in an area will tolerate overt drug dealing the place is a toilet.
Luckily I live in an area where overt drug dealing is not tolerated.
I prefer not to live in a lawless shithouse thanks very much.

Are you for real? May I suggest some anger management therapy? Come to think of it, it sounds as though you have a toilet fixation. Get some treatment mate.

 

[Kiddo-Whizz]

Which is still not the everyone being tested at arrest for any offence you suggested.

So it's ok then, as long as it doesn't happen to you? Yeah, let's get our civil rights trampled on, after all it only concerns 'other' people. Evil things and deeds only happen when good men look the other way. Keep looking away and bury your head in sand. That's what is happening in this country. United Kingdom, a minor colony of the U.S.A. Nice

 

[Justice4all]

So it's ok then, as long as it doesn't happen to you? Yeah, let's get our civil rights trampled on, after all it only concerns 'other' people. Evil things and deeds only happen when good men look the other way. Keep looking away and bury your head in sand. That's what is happening in this country. United Kingdom, a minor colony of the U.S.A. Nice

I applaud the spirit of what you are trying to say. The correct quote by Edmund Burke is "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing". Can anyone argue with this quote?

 

[William of Walworth]

I guess it's kind of ironic now that the police are proposing this change in policy - it was from the Lambeth police force that the evidence emerged about how much police time is saved by not arresting someone (by not filling in the 17 forms you have to fill in for each arrest, transporting them to the nick, processing them etc..). Now they want to go back to square one at one of their busiest times of year. There's an argument which says that the dealers etc will thrive because they'll be less coppers on the street due to the fact that they're all processing arrested users down the nick!

Yes, but aren't there two separate issues here:

1) Chaotic drug users travelling between sites like Brixton and Camden in search of harder drugs. Often heavily addicted, in need of help and likely to be involved in crime of some sort to fund their (very) regular habit.
2) Opportunistic purchasers trying their luck purchasing recreational drugs around Brixton (generally weed). Perhaps middle-class locals or visitors, unlikely to have to steal to fund their occasional visit. Unlikely to be the ones shouting abuse down Rushcroft Road at 4am in the morning and shitting in gardens.

The thing which potentially annoys me about the way this police initiative is presented is that the aim seems to be to crack down on the second group to make an example, giving the bizarre reasoning that it may affect the first

They're easier targets for sure, but it strikes me as a cowardly white flag from the police - as if they find it too unpleasant to tackle the harder users (who most need help) and properly take on the worst of the dealers and thus want a simpler, press-friendly option. It fails on so many levels for me - occasional purchasers are unlikely to hear about this initiative and be discouraged from buying. And, put mildly, the dealers are unlikely to give a shite whether their punters are getting arrested or not - hell, the ones that sell oregano/oxo whatever may even be glad of the distraction.

Crap window dressing rather than effective policy imo...

Excellent points from both these posts. Is there any chance at all that in practice (as opposed to advance publicity) the Police in Brixton will apply a bit of common sense and save themselves a lot of hassle and bother, by avoiding busting casual/occasional buyers and only concentrating on the serious dealers?

I have my doubts.

Another point I'm curious about, the recent publicity given to the new (national) parameters the Home Office/Police will end up applying to the maximum amounts of various category of drug that you can carry, before it counts as non personal and becomes intent to supply. How will those limits fit
in with whats about to happen in Brixton?

Maybe I need to read up a bit more ...

 

[netbob]

Excellent points from both these posts. Is there any chance at all that in practice (as opposed to advance publicity) the Police in Brixton will apply a bit of common sense and save themselves a lot of hassle and bother, by avoiding busting casual/occasional buyers and only concentrating on the serious dealers?

I have my doubts.

Another point I'm curious about, the recent publicity given to the new (national) parameters the Home Office/Police will end up applying to the maximum amounts of various category of drug that you can carry, before it counts as non personal and becomes intent to supply. How will those limits fit
in with whats about to happen in Brixton?

Maybe I need to read up a bit more ...

I went to the meeting about this and the police said explicitly that their targets were dealers rather than casual users. Plus the police are still able to use their discresion (which you would hope they would) and only briefed officers are allowed to use the new arrangement.

Specifically they are going to target dealers carrying small amounts of weed, but stashing larger amounts around the town centre, and as a deterrant to people comming from outside Brixton to buy.

It is also supposed to be a crackdown on all dealing not just weed (although obviously the media homed in on that side of things).

There's also a monitoring program which seems pretty robust to check who is being stopped/charged etc. More info here:

http://www.lambethcpcg.org.uk/38313/index.html

As far as the home office limits go, I dont think they effect what is going on in Brixton. I get the feeling that is all aload of media hype though and probably relates more to sentancing than anything else.

 

[detective-boy]

They're easier targets for sure, but it strikes me as a cowardly white flag from the police - as if they find it too unpleasant to tackle the harder users (who most need help) and properly take on the worst of the dealers and thus want a simpler, press-friendly option.

Part (a big part) of the problem is that the police alone cannot have any realistic impact on the first group - they have neither the brief, powers or resources to deal with the underlying causes and they constantly find other agencies turning away from initiatives because they don't fit in with other health / social services / housing / education performance measures which they are measured by.

People keep on about the problem, asking the police "What are you doing about it", so they concentrate on the second group where by their own actions they can have some demonstrable, albeit short-term, impact.

 

[poster342002]

...there was me thinking it was people shitting in the street with impunity.

Which, unfortunately, I once saw happen on Atlantic Road on one occasion.

 

[RushcroftRoader]

Well maybe its just the cold weather, but Rushcroft Road seems to have been better the last week.
The police cleared out a crack house in Clarence House on Rushcroft last Thursday, so that must be helping as well.