'Brixton faces drugs policy U-turn'

[prunus]

I doubt it. I severely doubt that the majority of 'drug tourists' are repeat offenders - not many would voluntarily return to pay high prices for something which occasionally may really be cannabis.

I suspect the majority of purchases are opportunistic and not particularly reasoned or informed decisions. Once the blaze of publicity is over, expecting people to obediently stop buying from street dealers seems an unlikely achievement. It's not as though draconian powers have really be shown as a disincentive in the past in the 'war' against drugs.

I was just thinking that if word got around that buying off the street in Brixton was risky even the opportunistic people would go elsewhere. After all as we know there are often policemen standing within yards of the dealers, it would not be difficult to S&S everyone who appears to be transacting with them.

Or maybe it would on second thoughts. I haven't really thought this through.

 

[Pie 1]

It already is.

He's taking the piss out of a small local police initiative, Toby.
Couldn't find a pic, maybe someone else can for you.

 

[newbie]

newbie,

Are you taking the piss?

nah, I'm just in a funny mood this morning. it'll pass, and it's not aimed at you at all

 

[RushcroftRoader]

I think this is a great idea. I heard about it a few weeks back at a residents meeting with police.
The three month duration can be renewed at the end of the period, so its not just a temporary measure.
And if it gets rid of Brixton's repuation as a "drugs supermarket" then maybe market forces will force the dealers to move of their own accord.
I worry about the people selling cannabis to buy crack. Cut or at least reduce the skunk dealing and hopefully help the crack problem into the bargain.
I am not aghast about cannabis use or even a few people dealing a bit of weed, but when its the same guys handing out crack on my street during the night, then I have a problem with it.
I totally agree that this should not hurt the local flavour of Brixton. But local character is one thing, rampant unfettered drug dealing is something else entirely.

 

[netbob]

There's a risk that weed becomes the sole the focus of this (at least in the general public's view) and detracts from the wider problem.

- It makes an easier story from the media's point of view (and hence a better coverage for the council) because of the whole Paddock thing.

- Weed dealers are more obvious and potentually 'low hanging fruit' - easier to deal with than crack/heroin dealers.

- Finally, focusing on cannabis (as the BBC story does) takes peoples eye off the crack/heroin problems. (I notice one of the names on the Beeb article was Paul McGone who has been campaigning against the Brighton Terrace Centre. Not sure if there’s a link there or not).

It will be interesting to see how the whole thing is going to work at the meeting tonight. I really hope this is part of an attempt to tackle all the drug problems in the centre - crack, heroin, needles, and aggressive weed dealing

 

[poster342002]

I was just thinking that if word got around that buying off the street in Brixton was risky even the opportunistic people would go elsewhere. After all as we know there are often policemen standing within yards of the dealers, it would not be difficult to S&S everyone who appears to be transacting with them.

Or maybe it would on second thoughts. I haven't really thought this through.

I think they're wary of this approach since the riots. However, I think times have changed and I doubt anybody would be prepared to riot in defence of nuisance drug dealers. I certainly doubt anyone trying to riot in such circumstances would be viewed sympatheticaly by Brixtoners at large.

 

[poster342002]

I totally agree that this should not hurt the local flavour of Brixton. But local character is one thing, rampant unfettered drug dealing is something else entirely.

Spot-on!

 

[poster342002]

- Weed dealers are more obvious and potentually 'low hanging fruit' - easier to deal with than crack/heroin dealers.

Maybe there's a general perception that a lot of the weed-dealers are also selling harder stuff?

 

[poster342002]

nah, I'm just in a funny mood this morning. it'll pass, and it's not aimed at you at all

No worries!

 

[tobyjug]

Maybe a general perception that a lot of the weed-dealers are also selling harder stuff?

I know bugger all about Brixton, but in my locality when the police do finally finish eating donuts, waddle out of the police station and get their act to-gether to bust a drug dealer just finding cannabis is an exception. Usually there is a complete range of the more common illegals except for crack and heroin.

 

[netbob]

Maybe a general perception that a lot of the weed-dealers are also selling harder stuff?

Some are definatly doing that yes. Plus there seem to be looser connections (acting as lookouts etc) for crack/heroin dealers.

Hopfully this will be the focus of the whole thing (that was certainly what I took away from the various residents meetings).

Personaly I find the KFC weed dealers mostly just an irritation, its the crack/heroin users/dealers who freak me out.

 

[poster342002]

Personaly I find the KFC weed dealers mostly just an irritation, its the crack users/dealers who freak me out.

I find my tolerance levels towards the whole lot nowadays are just completely exhausted. I just find myself thinking "enough now, already!". It's all gone on too long.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

surely it's not weed selling that's the problem - it's crack and heroin. I'd like to see a crackdown on crack and heroin. It'd make Brixton much safer than a weed crackdown.

 

[tarannau]

I think they're wary of this approach since the riots. However, I think times have changed and I doubt anybody would be prepared to riot in defence of nuisance drug dealers. I certainly doubt anyone trying to riot in such circumstances would be viewed sympatheticaly by Brixtoners at large.

Eh? Why would someone who objected to being stopped and searched riot 'in defence of nuisance drug dealers'?

IMO increasing the police's power and the number of stop and searches would be hugely counter-productive and lead to worse community relations. Sadly, in my experience, the average Brixton copper doesn't have the sensitivity, social skills or discretion to be entrusted with stopping and searching the wider community. Their propensity to stop a disproportionate number of BME 'suspects' with little record of increased 'success' is well established. I don't want a return of the bad old 'sus days of distrust.

The intelligence led policing aspect strikes me as nonsense. As many have said, it doesn't exactly take Sherlock Holmes to identify the dealers at present. Why not target them rather than go for the soft option of stopping those who interact with them?

 

[Bob]

I'm unconvinced by this. The police don't have the resources to crack down on fairly obvious problems at present. I have no problem with them cracking down on 'weed' dealers who are in fact selling crack - but am very suspicious they'll be able to do much in practice.

What I am convinced by is the general idea that the police shouldn't turn a blind eye to the dealing going on. In other words I think arresting dealers by the bustops is probably impractical - but standing next to them / interviewing them on the street and generally making their lives difficult is probably a good use of police time.

 

[poster342002]

surely it's not weed selling that's the problem - it's crack and heroin. I'd like to see a crackdown on crack and heroin. It'd make Brixton much safer than a weed crackdown.

I think it's gone beyond that now, for reasons outlined in my (and to an extent, memespring's) posts above.

I think it's all too intertwined now. I think we need to be rid of the entire drugs industry in Brixton before anything else can be considered.

 

[Dan U]

In other words I think arresting dealers by the bustops is probably impractical - but standing next to them / interviewing them on the street and generally making their lives difficult is probably a good use of police time.

when they recently tried to arrest someone at the bus stop by Iceland, another member of the public got involved and it all got quite complicated quite quickly.

they have to be careful how they do it, but i do not think it being 'difficult' should preclude them from arresting dealers.

I started a thread on it at the time -

link here

re: other comments on the focus being on cannabis and not crack etc i thoroughly agree - however wasnt there a recent operation around KFC targeting crack and heroin dealers? - they may point to this as the effort in that area.

 

[poster342002]

Eh? Why would someone who objected to being stopped and searched riot 'in defence of nuisance drug dealers'?

IMO increasing the police's power and the number of stop and searches would be hugely counter-productive and lead to worse community relations. Sadly, in my experience, the average Brixton copper doesn't have the sensitivity, social skills or discretion to be entrusted with stopping and searching the wider community. Their propensity to stop a disproportionate number of BME 'suspects' with little record of increased 'success' is well established. I don't want a return of the bad old 'sus days of distrust.

The intelligence led policing aspect strikes me as nonsense. As many have said, it doesn't exactly take Sherlock Holmes to identify the dealers at present. Why not target them rather than go for the soft option of stopping those who interact with them?

Sorry, I didn't put it too well. I meant pretty much what you say about going after the blatant dealers rather than stopping random people. It's the dealers that I doubt anybody would riot in defense of.

 

[newbie]

IMO increasing the police's power and the number of stop and searches would be hugely counter-productive and lead to worse community relations. Sadly, in my experience, the average Brixton copper doesn't have the sensitivity, social skills or discretion to be entrusted with stopping and searching the wider community. Their propensity to stop a disproportionate number of BME 'suspects' with little record of increased 'success' is well established. I don't want a return of the bad old 'sus days of distrust.

Nor me.

It's interesting to see the reaction of a crowd to a modern arrest: coppers all over someone with their hands grasping his face, trying to prise his jaw open. It's not at all pleasant, and it's no wonder crowds get upset, and in turn no wonder the police are a bit circumspect with arrests in crowded places. 2 or 3 years ago Brixton police were lobbying for a law change so that internal possession could be flushed out, as it can at airports, so they wouldn't need to stop dealers swallowing. I don't know if it ever came to anything, but maintaining public order and building trust is much more important than the bloke with the braids asking the same question day after day. IMO.

I'm with Bob a bit here though. I've seen the FIT teams on demonstrations, explicitly shadowing and photoing specific individuals. If they've got the time for that, why not use the same tactics on half dozen or so most prominent faces?

I've also wondered whether a citizens group couldn't flypost the area with Not Wanted posters.

 

[Dan U]

I've also wondered whether a citizens group couldn't flypost the area with Not Wanted posters.

what a great idea

 

[newbie]

what a great idea

it's a very dangerous idea. Do not even contemplate this without a great deal of thought and preparation. Those guys may look sweet and innocent, but...

 

[Dan U]

it's a very dangerous idea. Do not even contemplate this without a great deal of thought and preparation. Those guys may look sweet and innocent, but...

sweet and innocent they do not look!

 

[newbie]

yeah sorry that post sounds a bit patronising, but I suddenly had a shiver go up my spine that somone might take my ramblings seriously..

 

[RushcroftRoader]

I share the view of a few people on this thread that something has got to change. Although there is no concrete evidence that dealing weed leads to the proliferation and sale of harder drugs, there is a growing weight of ancedotal evidence to suggest the two are linked.
I am not saying cannabis use necersarily leads to harder drug use, but I do think that when Brixton got a reputation as being the centre of the cannabis universe in London it opened a whole can of worms.
And I can't believe that anybody who has been repeatedly hassled to buy skunk will have a problem with the police stepping up efforts to tackle the whole drug "food chain". If it were only cannabis then there wouldn't be a problem.

To tackle crack then I think you have to act against all dealers. At the very least the dealers will think twice about selling crack if they know that the police can now prepared to arrest all dealers.
And lets not kid ourselves. Where do the street dealers get their skunk from?? Almost certainly the same people that supply the crack.
And lets give the police a bit of credit. They know as well as anybody who the culprits are. I am confident that they will act with a bit of common sense and selectivity when it comes to making arrests. I am sure this won't lead to a New York style "zero tolerance" campaign.
But if the police are too heavy handed then there will be a backlash - no question.
However I am fed up of the fact that having drug dealers lining the streets in Brixton is just regarded as normal and something that should just be seen as a part of urban living. Its a shite situation.
I don't think this should be seen as an attempt by local authorities and the police to sanitise Brixton, but rather a long overdue move to rid the streets of the scumbags who make residents' lives a misery.
I just hope that when this policy comes into effect, the police will be given the resources required to make a material difference.

 

[netbob]

I got a call from the Beeb asking for an intervew about this (I assume because of myBrixton.org)

Work wouldent let me out to do it though

 

[RushcroftRoader]

I got a call from the Beeb asking for an intervew about this (I assume because of myBrixton.org)

Work wouldent let me out to do it though

Tough luck.
We need people putting out positive messages about Brixton.

 

[netbob]

Yeah, would have been a good chance to get something positive over.

 

[detective-boy]

... because of the whole Paddock thing.

He's a dick, actually ...

 

[netbob]

Loads more stories today

 

[richtea]

However I am fed up of the fact that having drug dealers lining the streets in Brixton is just regarded as normal and something that should just be seen as a part of urban living. Its a shite situation.

Totally agree. Had a bit of an arguement with my gf about this last night. If this new policy does target the dealers then I think it's a good thing; she reckons that anyone who looks 'alternative' will get harrassed by the cops though (users rather than dealers).

I don't really have a problem with people smoking weed (don't smoke it myself) - but don't come to Brixton, help to perpetuate the local drugs economy - and all the shit that goes with it - and piss off again, it's fucking rude.

I do accept that the potential for it to be handled badly is there, but simply not doing anything about the increase in street dealing would be criminal IMO.