Brixton - beer, craft ale and brewery news and discussion

[editor]

I guess the analogy would be that if more people want to hear you DJing, you get a bigger venue.

A better analogy would be, "why didn't urban75 do a deal with Vice Media/Murdoch or some other mega-multinational so we can could on growing?"

Capitalism is all about growth. About being bigger. About shifting more units and grabbing more of the market share, and doing deals with the big boys to get there, and that's simply not for me . Urban75 had plenty of juicy opportunities in the past for corporate involvement, all of which I turned down and I think the boards are all the better for it. I certainly am.

And even though I don't make any money from running websites, I'm in a position where I can help raise thousands of pounds for my local community, and be involved a site that has made a real positive difference to people's lives - with no data-lurping/advertising, sponsorship or corporate bollocks.

But to go back the DJ analogy: I don't want to play mega-clubs where people get hassled by bouncers, ripped off on the door and ripped off at the bar. I'm more than happy playing modest sized venues where everyone can get in free (although the odd festival gig would be nice!).

 

[CH1]

Surely an appetite for aggressive expansion and forming partnerships with massive corporates to facilitate that desire can only be, ultimately, about creating bigger markets and maximising profits, no?

It's the capitalist blueprint after all but, happily, not every business or entity feels the need for endless growth.

You are rushing to judgement there. In more sensible times (pre 2008 in particular) people went to the bank to expand. Then the banks started putting companies into fake ERG to rip off their assets (or at least NatWest/RBS and Halifax/Bank of Scotland notoriously did) - and some of those cases are still outstanding.

If I was asked an opinion by a small brewery - do I take a partnership deal with a mega brewery, or do I take a loan from the bank? - I can't imagine recommending a bank load to them (except possibly Triodos Bank which claims to be ethical though the Skeptical Atheists don't believe them: The Bank that likes to say ‘Quack’: Triodos.

You can't win.

 

[editor]

You are rushing to judgement there. In more sensible times (pre 2008 in particular) people went to the bank to expand. Then the banks started putting companies into fake ERG to rip off their assets (or at least NatWest/RBS and Halifax/Bank of Scotland notoriously did) - and some of those cases are still outstanding.

If I was asked an opinion by a small brewery - do I take a partnership deal with a mega brewery, or do I take a loan from the bank? - I can't imagine recommending a bank load to them (except possibly Triodos Bank which claims to be ethical though the Skeptical Atheists don't believe them: The Bank that likes to say ‘Quack’: Triodos.

You can't win.

I'm not judging, i'm just saying I don't share this need to grow and expand. There's other things I feel are more important, and for me - personally - letting a corporate own nearly half of this site would make me very, very uncomfortable. I certainly wouldn't feel I could describe it as 'independent' under such circumstances.

Plenty of enterprises are happy sticking to small scale and not following the capitalist 'expansion' dream too, thankfully.

 

[Smick]

The world is all about growth. The co-op seeks to open more shops and serve more customers. Schools are always trying to get new buildings to get more pupils in. Soviet enterprises sought to grow, to increase output. It's not just capitalism.

I can imagine that Urban 75 has had plenty of options for corporate involvement, having followed boards.ie since its inception, and seen how it sold out. And I think that Urban is all the better for not having chased that quick buck. But Urban has grown since you started it and counts a wide number of users all round the world. The rules of your growth, and what is required, is not the same as others'.

Brixton Brewery seeks to serve higher priced pints to people with disposable income, packaged with nice labels, but had hit a ceiling, preventing the growth that any body needs to prevent stagnation. Making a quid from it might have been very welcome, but I would be surprised if it was their sole or even principal objective. Certainly not in the short term.

Anyway, I don't think we will find consensus. But as a regular poster here who has personal experience of two of the founders of Brixton Brewery, I think they are decent people and it would be negligent of me not to pipe up with a word in their favour.

 

[alex_]

You are rushing to judgement there. In more sensible times (pre 2008 in particular) people went to the bank to expand. Then the banks started putting companies into fake ERG to rip off their assets (or at least NatWest/RBS and Halifax/Bank of Scotland notoriously did) - and some of those cases are still outstanding.

If I was asked an opinion by a small brewery - do I take a partnership deal with a mega brewery, or do I take a loan from the bank? - I can't imagine recommending a bank load to them (except possibly Triodos Bank which claims to be ethical though the Skeptical Atheists don't believe them: The Bank that likes to say ‘Quack’: Triodos.

You can't win.

Yes, also a deal with Heineken ( or any mega brewer ) will bring access to expert brewers, procurement specialists and raw materials which wouldn’t have been cheaply available before. Also Heineken will deal with all of their none core activities hr/finance/tech which are important to a business but a distraction to founders.

A deal with a bank would have just brought cash and a lot of pressure.

Alex

 

[cuppa tee]

Time out map showing cheapest pint near London underground stations*
Brixton is £2.10 for bud light in the beehive....
https://media.timeout.com/images/105485556/image.jpg

*cant vouch for accuracy

 

[CH1]

I'm not judging, i'm just saying I don't share this need to grow and expand. There's other things I feel are more important, and for me - personally - letting a corporate own nearly half of this site would make me very, very uncomfortable. I certainly wouldn't feel I could describe it as 'independent' under such circumstances.

Plenty of enterprises are happy sticking to small scale and not following the capitalist 'expansion' dream too, thankfully.

If you're happy with the board as it is that's fine by me.

Brixton Brewery seems a different proposition to me.
For a start some of the costs: rent/lease costs, business rates, wages, gas/electricity are inherently liable to inflation, and the business needs to be able to grow to fund this. Then there is marketing, which is critical in the fickle pub market.

 

[CH1]

Time out map showing cheapest pint near London underground stations*
Brixton is £2.10 for bud light in the beehive....
https://media.timeout.com/images/105485556/image.jpg

*cant vouch for accuracy

Not a devotee of Greene King "Ruddles" @ £1.99 but its surely more appealing that Budweiser Light, and 11p cheaper. Is Time Out a gas-only publication?

 

[T & P]

Time out map showing cheapest pint near London underground stations*
Brixton is £2.10 for bud light in the beehive....
https://media.timeout.com/images/105485556/image.jpg

*cant vouch for accuracy

I'm sure there are some good value for money beers to be have at The Beehive, but if you're going to drink Bud Light you might as well drink your own piss.

 

[cuppa tee]

Not a devotee of Greene King "Ruddles" @ £1.99 but its surely more appealing that Budweiser Light, and 11p cheaper. Is Time Out a gas-only publication?

Ruddles County was a rare find back in the day. As for Time Out the bloke who edited it a while back I think he has branched out into radio now was most definitely a gasbag.

I'm sure there are some good value for money beers to be have at The Beehive, but if you're going to drink Bud Light you might as well drink your own piss.

I was going to post something like that but thought there may be fans lurking on the board and C b a to have an argument

 

[editor]

If you're happy with the board as it is that's fine by me.

Brixton Brewery seems a different proposition to me.
For a start some of the costs: rent/lease costs, business rates, wages, gas/electricity are inherently liable to inflation, and the business needs to be able to grow to fund this. Then there is marketing, which is critical in the fickle pub market.

Can't help but notice there seems to be no shortage of true independent breweries all managing to get along without getting into bed with mega-multinationals.

This process reminds me of how major record companies bought up indie labels in the 90s to provide faux alternative 'cool' outlets backed by clever marketing.

In my mind, if you're 49% owned by a multinational corporations, you're definitely not what I'd call 'independent.' What do you think?

 

[editor]

Time out map showing cheapest pint near London underground stations*
Brixton is £2.10 for bud light in the beehive....
https://media.timeout.com/images/105485556/image.jpg

*cant vouch for accuracy

I wonder if the next cheapest pint can be bought at the Dogstar who do their Volden own brew for £3.30, i think. Mind you, the Albert often has cheapo deals on some brands.

 

[alex_]

I wonder if the next cheapest pint can be bought at the Dogstar who do their Volden own brew for £3.30, i think. Mind you, the Albert often has cheapo deals on some brands.

Antic can do this because small brewers relief applies to their brewing, they save about 28p tax on a 4.5% pint.

Alex

 

[editor]

Antic can do this because small brewers relief applies to their brewing, they save about 28p tax on a 4.5% pint.

Alex

Shame more companies don't do it then.

 

[alex_]

Shame more companies don't do it then.

There is a reason there are hundreds of microbreweries.

 

[editor]

There is a reason there are hundreds of microbreweries.

Thankfully they don't all sell £6 pints.

 

[CH1]

In my mind, if you're 49% owned by a multinational corporations, you're definitely not what I'd call 'independent.' What do you think?

I think there are different business models.
Take Marston's (formerly Wolverhampton and Dudley Brewery). They have a large range of "local" breweries, eg Ringwood - Hampshire (bought by Marstons for £19m in 2007), Jennings - Cumbria bought by Wolverhampton and Dudley in 2005.

They even opened a new brewery (Eagle Brewery) in Bedford to take over the Young's brands and Bombadier from Charles Wells of Bedford.

Greene King on the other hand have over the years bought up several other breweries, such as Morlands (of Old Speckled Hen fame) and Ruddles (of Ruddles County mentioned above by cuppa tee. Greene Kings policy is always to move production to Bury St Edmunds and close down their new acquisition and develop the site.

I would say that Marstons have preserved more jobs by keeping the various breweries open in Cumbria, Hampshire, Bedford etc. In fact if you visited Marstons website you might be surprised which brands they "own" Marston's Beers and Breweries

Greene King, which we know and love from the Prince Albert in Coldharbour Lane is a dominant employer in Bury St Edmunds, a place not noted for it's poverty I have to say.

Added to this Greene King's slash and burn acquisitions policy means it is worth £1.99 billion on the stock market, whereas the very diverse Marston, providing employment all over the country is only worth £769 million.

You takes you pick. Personally I think Greene King is a run of the mill brewer of standard English ales not much changed sine the 1960s where Marstons has actually created a more interesting portfolio - albeit by the means you are decrying above.

 

[CH1]

Greene King fans may be affected by this - a bid to take over GK by CK Asset Holdings of Hong Kong.
Greene King share price up by 50%, but not clear what effect this would have on the operation of the pub chain or the real ale brewing facility.
The former Chief Exec Rooney Anand had stepped down in April.
Can't see any prospect of real ale being brought back at the Prince Albert at this rate.

 

[alex_]

Greene King fans may be affected by this - a bid to take over GK by CK Asset Holdings of Hong Kong.
Greene King share price up by 50%, but not clear what effect this would have on the operation of the pub chain or the real ale brewing facility.
The former Chief Exec Rooney Anand had stepped down in April.
Can't see any prospect of real ale being brought back at the Prince Albert at this rate.

Cheap pound

 

[CH1]

Cheap pound

Or flight capital - from Hong Kong

 

[alex_]

Or flight capital - from Hong Kong

A bit obvious, and deals like this are months in the planning.

 

[CH1]

A bit obvious, and deals like this are months in the planning.

Also Fullers brewery was recently acquired by Asahi - in a much smaller deal.
Seems like contrary to what the Brexiteers are saying the British capitalists are desperately selling off the family silver to foreigners, whoever they might be.
British Steel to a Turkish pension fund included.

 

[alex_]

Also Fullers brewery was recently acquired by Asahi - in a much smaller deal.
Seems like contrary to what the Brexiteers are saying the British capitalists are desperately selling off the family silver to foreigners, whoever they might be.
British Steel to a Turkish pension fund included.
View attachment 181545

Sorry, I meant obvious to the government of China, and the pound has been falling for a while.

 

[BusLanes]

Brexit brings many benefits to British businesses, it's just not clear what they are or when they're coming or to whom

Although I guess anyone who wants to pick up cheap assets would be pleased.

 

[CH1]

To supplement the above, I saw this in Fortune magazine:
"Whatever one’s views on Brexit, the fact is that CK is paying a pre-Brexit price for a post-Brexit asset. The last time the Greene King stock traded at the offer price of 850 pence was in the week before the U.K. voted to leave the EU in June 2016. Since then, shares have fallen some 40%, as British equities have fallen out of favor with international investors, and the U.K. has gone from being the fastest-growing economy in the G7 to the slowest".
Why One of Asia’s Richest Men Is Buying a British Pub Business Right Before Brexit

 

[CH1]

Peckham vs Brixton Wetherspoons shock horror.
I went shopping in Peckham yesterday because I needed particular stuff only available at "Savers" and "Morissons" - currently lacking in Brixton.

I dipped into the Kentish Drovers, and was delighted to find they had Twickenham Autumn Red on. Very nice too.

More shocking - they had completely reupholstered all the seating and it still looked impressively clean. Quite likely the carpet had also been deep cleaned or replaced. The median aged black Caribbean bar staff added an aspect of working class authenticity we so lack in Brixton. Admittedly the Drovers is nicely spacious and manages to combine a few private alcoves with masses of open plan seating.

Popped out to Brixton Iceland this afternoon and dropped into the Beehive - and it was the usual hell hole experience. All seats taken. Guest ales have all sold out(when? Friday?) It seems to be the pub's policy to ensure there are never trained staff on at weekends who can change barrels. Or is it a ploy to force customers up-market to London Pride for example - £2.89 shit compared to the normal £2.10 "guest".

I hesitate to complain in case Wetherspoons upgrade the place. The Rockingham Arms at Elephant and Castle charge £3.15 for guest ales now. One of the benefits of being in Zone One with all those ethnically cleansed flats they've got courtesy of Southwark Council. It hasn't improved the toilets though. All of these Wetherspoons pubs in South London have uniquely poor men's toilets.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

Recently i lived near the Kentish Drovers and always despaired about how shit it was. I quickly learned to never order any food in there, nor look at anyone i didnt know in the smoking area.

Interesting to hear it has been done up, but the state of the chairs and carpet were never my main concern, more the overall bleakness of the place.

The Brixton Wetherspoons is no better (nor worse IMO) but has the added disadvantage of being too small for purpose, particulalrly when there is a big gig on at the Academy.

The Holland Tringham in Streatham however, now your talking.

 

[CH1]

Obviously cans are supposed to be "craft" rather than "real" - but I just wanted to draw people's attention to a farly new offering from Lidl

The funny thing about this is the cans are rather cheaper than the bottled equivalent - and also stronger.
the abv of the bottled product is 4.3% I think and they are £1.09/500mL bottle.

The reason I'm posting though is the small print above - note that in Scotland and Wales the price of the 4 pack is £5 - presumably because they have minimum pricing.

According to a briefing paper in the House of Commons Library the following currently applies:

Licensing policy in Scotland
Alcohol licensing is a devolved matter. The Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) Scotland Act 2012 paved the way for the introduction of MUP. The Scottish Whisky Association unsuccessfully challenged the legislation in the European and Scottish courts. A minimum unit price of 50p per unit was introduced on 1 May 2018.

Licensing policy in England and Wales
A ban on selling alcohol below the level of alcohol duty plus VAT has been in place since 28 May 2014. This was introduced through the Licensing Act 2003 (Mandatory Conditions) Order 2014. In March 2020, the Government said there were “no plans for the introduction of MUP in England” although it would continue to monitor the progress of MUP in Scotland and consider the evidence of its impact.

Public health policy in Wales
The Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Act 2018 enabled the introduction of MUP on public health grounds, an area within the Welsh Assembly’s legislative competence. A minimum unit price of 50p was introduced from 2 March 2020.

That is my contribution to nerdy debate on beer (real or otherwise) pending a pub reopening.

 

[CH1]

Paid a rare visit to Sainsburys Tulse Hill on Monday.
They had Marston's Old Empire on offer £1.25 for a 500 mL bottle, which beats Lidl's £1.39
Morrison's Camberwell Green had it a £1.25 last week - thought the normal price is £1.75

More interesting- because I'd never tried it - was Badger's "The Cranborne Poacher" @ £1.50

I thought it tasted a bit odd for a beer - rather sweet and heavy - but pleasant nevertheless.
There is a review here The Cranborne Poacher – We Try Beer

 

[IC3D]

I assumed everyone was on the hard stuff now. Just me.