Breaking Bad (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Orang Utan]

Ok, explain what I don't get, enlightened one. What does the fact that BB passes this test say about its portrayal of women? Apart from fuck all.

#2232
It's not a reflection of the show, but of the massive imbalance in society

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[Orang Utan]

LOL at Jesse being described as looking like 'a juggler without makeup'

 

[spacemonkey]

LOL at Jesse being described as looking like 'a juggler without makeup'

A juggalo without make-up.

 

[belboid]

Yes I do. It's not that difficult.

Breaking bad barely scrapes a 3. It's not a female centric show. It's no worse for it.

50% of the population are reduced to sidekicks, and that means that breaking bad, or the wire, or the sopranos, are inherently flawed tv shows?

This test is of no value when applied to an individual show. When you look at how few movies/shows pass it, that as a whole probably says something useful about the industry, and possibly what audiences want/expect. Bit applying it as a useful bar of anything at all to an individual show is fucking idiocy.

you dont get it because you write the above despite no one saying that ' breaking bad, or the wire, or the sopranos, are inherently flawed tv shows' - they're not - partly because they get a 3 on the bechdel. Any show that claims to be about 'life' running that long that didnt show women talking to each other about something other than men would be a bit shit. Fortunately almost none of them do.

If the vast majority of TV shows never showed men talking to each other than anything other than women then I'm sure you'd be complaining soon enough


(coincidentally, mrs b has just today been given an Alison Bechdel graphic novel for her birthday. About a funeral home, looks fun)

 

[belboid]

And Walt Jr's characterisation is never defined by his disability, this is also pretty unusual.

It's never even mentioned still less made a central feature.

 

[Orang Utan]

you dont get it because you write the above despite no one saying that ' breaking bad, or the wire, or the sopranos, are inherently flawed tv shows' - they're not - partly because they get a 3 on the bechdel. Any show that claims to be about 'life' running that long that didnt show women talking to each other about something other than men would be a bit shit. Fortunately almost none of them do.

If the vast majority of TV shows never showed men talking to each other than anything other than women then I'm sure you'd be complaining soon enough


(coincidentally, mrs b has just today been given an Alison Bechdel graphic novel for her birthday. About a funeral home, looks fun)

It's a great book, that! Didn't realise it was the same Bechdel!

 

[belboid]

It's a great book, that! Didn't realise it was the same Bechdel!

I'm assuming it is. But it surely has to be.

 

[Grace Johnson]

It's not something I consciously look out for, but one dimensional characters or shit dialogue can easily spoil a film. In a world where most films are written by men, women are more likely to be one dimensional and/or have terrible lines. Romcoms, ostensibly aimed at women, are some of the worst offenders IMO.

Well observed I agree.

The Bechdel test fails there because most the films aimed at women score well but portray and perpetuate horrific ideas about women that are totally alien to me and most other women I know. Eg; basically every romcom ever made. In fact if you tallyed it up, films that score highly are probably more likely to portray harmful stereotypical images of women as they are usually that clothes, shoes, shopping, ohh champagne, stripping men make me empowered, 'the one' romcom shite.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

#2232
It's not a reflection of the show, but of the massive imbalance in society

So what I said it was then.

It has a purpose of making a broader point about how few films get a 3.

When you look at how few movies/shows pass it, that as a whole probably says something useful about the industry, and possibly what audiences want/expect.

 

[BigTom]

It's never even mentioned still less made a central feature.

That's not true, and it's a good thing it's not. Two scenes i can immediately think of, one right at the start when they are in a shop and skylar is helping junior put on trousers and there's some dicks taking the piss, who Walter gives a dead leg to. Second one is when Walter is trying to teach junior to drive.
It's a good thing cos disabilities cause people problems and affect their lives. These effects should be portrayed, otherwise it plays to the idea that disabilities aren't a problem, don't need anything special or different done around them to remove/ease those problems etc., it just wouldn't be right for a disabled character to never have their disability mentioned.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

you dont get it because you write the above despite no one saying that ' breaking bad, or the wire, or the sopranos, are inherently flawed tv shows' - they're not - partly because they get a 3 on the bechdel. Any show that claims to be about 'life' running that long that didnt show women talking to each other about something other than men would be a bit shit. Fortunately almost none of them do.

If the vast majority of TV shows never showed men talking to each other than anything other than women then I'm sure you'd be complaining soon enough


(coincidentally, mrs b has just today been given an Alison Bechdel graphic novel for her birthday. About a funeral home, looks fun)

They all barely scrape a 3. Maybe the sopranos does ok, with some episodes focussing a bit on female interactions which are somewhat extensive. The wire and BB? I doubt there's more than 10 minutes worth of scene between the two which score a 3. In over 100hours of tv. So saying they pass the test and then proclaiming them "sound" re their portrayal of women seems to be stretching the usefulness of the test as such a benchmark an awful lot.

This person says it better...

http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-bechdel-test-its-not-about-passing/

Note the emphasis on female characters advancing the story, in the context of bechdel. In terms of the overall arc of the respective shows, they all fall down massively on this front.

And yet the fact that they barely scrape a 3 doesn't mean that they are sexist. IMO. They aren't. But the fact that they conform to the rules, if not the spirit, of bechdel, has no baring on this. Women just aren't really part of the story, in each case.

Hence my assertion that the test itself, as applied to individual films and shows, is of little or no value.

I'd be happy to watch more films with women in as main characters. I'd be unhappy if men became similarly marginalised. But I wouldn't go around applying bechdel, or any similar variants, as a measure of a given films worth. That's for idiots.

 

[Supine]

From what I've read on here this test sounds like a load of bollocks

 

[D'wards]

Russ Meyer films would do very well on the test. Very well indeed

 

[chandlerp]

Well this is fucking fascinating

 

[Badgers]

My Netflix free trial ends on the 19th

 

[belboid]

And yet the fact that they barely scrape a 3 doesn't mean that they are sexist. IMO.

no one apart from you has ever claimed that failing to get a 3 means a film is sexist, you cretin. That just shows that you really don't get the point at all. you clearly didnt bother to read the article you linked to, because that is making the same point as I am!

 

[belboid]

That's not true, and it's a good thing it's not. Two scenes i can immediately think of, one right at the start when they are in a shop and skylar is helping junior put on trousers and there's some dicks taking the piss, who Walter gives a dead leg to. Second one is when Walter is trying to teach junior to drive.
It's a good thing cos disabilities cause people problems and affect their lives. These effects should be portrayed, otherwise it plays to the idea that disabilities aren't a problem, don't need anything special or different done around them to remove/ease those problems etc., it just wouldn't be right for a disabled character to never have their disability mentioned.

aah, forgot about those, well spotted!

 

[D'wards]

My Netflix free trial ends on the 19th

Like leaving a small bag of blue meth on your doormat. Once you are morbidly addicted Skinny Pete/Netflix will take you for all you have/£5.99 a month

 

[D'wards]

I reckon one of the Freeview, or even terrestrial channels could do what BBC2 did with The Wire. Buy it up, even though its pretty old, and show 3 a week (after Newsnight). Would still get decent figures i think.
Never really been shown on telly here, and some folks are not into torrents or boxsets, or netflix.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/mar/31/the-wire-bbc2-ratings

 

[Jon-of-arc]

no one apart from you has ever claimed that failing to get a 3 means a film is sexist, you cretin. That just shows that you really don't get the point at all. you clearly didnt bother to read the article you linked to, because that is making the same point as I am!

no, the point you've made (repeatedly) which im disputing is that passing the test means they are not sexist.

thats some pretty selective quoting right there. that was an aside chucked in to further highlight the limitations of the test as a measure of sexism. it was pretty clearly not the substance of my post.

 

[belboid]

no, the point you've made (repeatedly) which im disputing is that passing the test means they are not sexist.

I've never made that claim you cretin

 

[D'wards]

On this thread we do not call people Cretin, we call them Bitch, Bitch

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I've never made that claim you cretin

id be grateful if you stopped with the unnecessary insults. you cunt .

ill quote the bits in referring to later on.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

id be grateful if you stopped with the unnecessary insults. you cunt .

Especially insults pejorative of the disabled.

 

[Orang Utan]

I reckon one of the Freeview, or even terrestrial channels could do what BBC2 did with The Wire. Buy it up, even though its pretty old, and show 3 a week (after Newsnight). Would still get decent figures i think.
Never really been shown on telly here, and some folks are not into torrents or boxsets, or netflix.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/mar/31/the-wire-bbc2-ratings

The first series was shown on ITV2 (citation needed), so there may be some licensing problem that prevents this.
ETA - I tell a lie. It was FX for the first series, then C5 for the first two, and it flopped, but I bet a lot of that was down to it being buried in the schedule.

 

[D'wards]

The first series was shown on ITV2 (citation needed), so there may be some licensing problem that prevents this.

I think it was 5* or 5USA. Thats where i first saw it. Would be a coup for channel 5 to get it, show it 3 times a week at 11pm - lovely

 

[belboid]

Especially insults pejorative of the disabled.

cretin

 

[Orang Utan]

I think it was 5* or 5USA. Thats where i first saw it. Would be a coup for channel 5 to get it, show it 3 times a week at 11pm - lovely

Yeah 5USA

 

[Jon-of-arc]

cretin

do you prefer that word to spastic and retard then? where do you stand on nigger, paki & faggot ?