Breaking Bad (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[D'wards]

Sigh

 

[belboid]

do you prefer that word to spastic and retard then? where do you stand on nigger, paki & faggot ?

Oh dear, you are desperate. And hypocritical

a fucking moron.

Except they're not really the same because moron IS a word with a specific disability related meaning, whereas cretin isn't.

This is a piss poor attempt to cover up for the fact that you can't admit you we're wrong.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Oh dear, you are desperate. And hypocritical



Except they're not really the same because moron IS a word with a specific disability related meaning, whereas cretin isn't.

This is a piss poor attempt to cover up for the fact that you can't admit you we're wrong.

Moron doesn't have any modern use in psychology related terms. It is widely used to mean idiot. 30 seconds googling told me that.

However (and this is the correct reaction when someone points out you are using a culturally loaded descriptor as an insult...) I will bare in mind it's historical usage when deciding whether or not to apply it to an individual, in future.

Should you care to spend 30 seconds googling yourself, you'll discover that cretinism is a condition which exists to this day. It's caused by iodine deficiency, and is a serious problem in many parts of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretinism

Still loving that as an insult?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I've never made that claim you cretin

you dont get it because you write the above despite no one saying that ' breaking bad, or the wire, or the sopranos, are inherently flawed tv shows' - they're not - partly because they get a 3 on the bechdel.

If a series like BB, or any other with pretensions to being one of the greatest ever made, didn't manage one moment that achieved a '3' over 70 hours of TV, that would be a bit shit. A two or three hour movie is different, but over 70 hours.... Fortunately, it does get a 3 anyway.

 

[belboid]

Neither of those support your claim, which was:

no, the point you've made (repeatedly) which im disputing is that passing the test means they are not sexist.

irt BB, Sopranos etc, 'passing' the Bechdel test simply means the show has a (slightly) fuller range of characters and interactions, including between women. A show is almost always better for having a range of well developed characters who interact. Its pretty bloody simple.

The fact that many of the films that pass are also shite, and contain other kinds of sexist tosh is obvious from some of the films I (and others) have talked about.

As for your desperate post about cretinism, it just shows you didnt know what it meant in the first place! lol

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Neither of those support your claim, which was:



irt BB, Sopranos etc, 'passing' the Bechdel test simply means the show has a (slightly) fuller range of characters and interactions, including between women. A show is almost always better for having a range of well developed characters who interact. Its pretty bloody simple.

The fact that many of the films that pass are also shite, and contain other kinds of sexist tosh is obvious from some of the films I (and others) have talked about.

As for your desperate post about cretinism, it just shows you didnt know what it meant in the first place! lol

It's pretty obv... Ahh, fuck it.

You really should back track a bit on the cretinism thing though. That just makes you look like a cunt.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

irt BB, Sopranos etc, 'passing' the Bechdel test simply means the show has a (slightly) fuller range of characters and interactions, including between women. A show is almost always better for having a range of well developed characters who interact. Its pretty bloody simple.

So a film/tv show could automatically be improved just by the writers making sure there's a scene where female characters get together to talk about something other than men? Not convinced. Relationships/sex is always going to be a central theme in drama - because it's a central theme in life. Esp. post Tarantino, added on waffle is seen as a good thing. Better to keep it tight to the plot/theme rather than just tick the PC (or indulgence) box. Could it be whiners just don't have enough knowledge of cinema? I'm sure it's not that hard to come up with a list of films/tv that feature strong female characters. Wouldn't be hard to fill an hour or 2 a night with a film/show that features strong female characters, especially if you're willing to look outside the mainstream... but many people won't even watch stuff with subtitles... and I wouldn't recommend hours in front of the box every night anyway. I picked a random row of my DVDs and right away picked out Winter's Bone, all the Alien films, the Kill Bill films and maybe Blood on Satan's Claw that would probably pass the silly test.

 

[belboid]

It's pretty obv... Ahh, fuck it.

a most gracious climbdown on your part. thank you

You really should back track a bit on the cretinism thing though. That just makes you look like a cunt.

and use of the word 'cunt' as an insult in a discussion around sexism makes you...

 

[belboid]

So a film/tv show could automatically be improved just by the writers making sure there's a scene where female characters get together to talk about something other than men? Not convinced.

Good, cos that's not what I said. Its not about shoehorning anything in, its about having a full range of characters who interact intelligently. Passing the test doesn't make something shit good, but its a vague, rough indicator that the characters are a bit more rounded and developed. If over the course of seventy hours TV, no women ever talked about anything, it indicates that they are not that important. Generally speaking, I like shows with good well rounded portrayals of women. Weird, I know.

Relationships/sex is always going to be a central theme in drama - because it's a central theme in life. Esp. post Tarantino, added on waffle is seen as a good thing. Better to keep it tight to the plot/theme rather than just tick the PC (or indulgence) box. Could it be whiners just don't have enough knowledge of cinema? I'm sure it's not that hard to come up with a list of films/tv that feature strong female characters. Wouldn't be hard to fill an hour or 2 a night with a film/show that features strong female characters, especially if you're willing to look outside the mainstream... but many people won't even watch stuff with subtitles... and I wouldn't recommend hours in front of the box every night anyway. I picked a random row of my DVDs and right away picked out Winter's Bone, all the Alien films, the Kill Bill films and maybe Blood on Satan's Claw that would probably pass the silly test.

Again, its not about individual films or shows, its about cinema & TV as a whole. And the fact that it is easy to pass is part of the point! And yet most films dont pass it. But who cares, its only women.

 

[thriller]

I don't give a shit that it has no "strong" woman characters in it. why do people think every popular fucking show should have "strong" women in it. It's a great show. Leave it be.

 

[thriller]

BB is about the only show I can think of that has a disabled character actually played by a disabled actor. Has it ever been praised for this?

you've clearly never watched grange hill

 

[Johnny Vodka]

you've clearly never watched grange hill

When I was 10, like 28 years ago.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

And yet most films dont pass it.

'Most films'? Most Hollywood films? Most independent films? Most 'foreign language' films? Please enlighten us as to the sample taken to reach this conclusion.

 

[DexterTCN]

The Bechdel test is important.

Look at the films that pass it. Steel Magnolias, Who Will Love My Children, My Sister's Keeper.....

Consider the films that don't. That's right...all the good ones.

Films should be labelled 'not Bechdel friendly' so I know it's safe to watch them.

 

[belboid]

'Most films'? Most Hollywood films? Most independent films? Most 'foreign language' films? Please enlighten us as to the sample taken to reach this conclusion.

well, bechdeltest.com has scores for 224 of the imdb top 250. Only 40 get an unalloyed pass. A further 30 get a slightly debatable pass. That's less than a third. And most of the passes are more than forty years old.

Overall on that site, 55.44% do pass, but the site is kinda geared to finding films that do pass, so it is at least highly likely that most films fail.

 

[belboid]

The Bechdel test is important.

Look at the films that pass it. Steel Magnolias, Who Will Love My Children, My Sister's Keeper.....

Consider the films that don't. That's right...all the good ones.

Films should be labelled 'not Bechdel friendly' so I know it's safe to watch them.

but while you're looking at that, the point will still be in the opposite direction.

 

[DexterTCN]

well, bechdeltest.com has scores for 224 of the imdb top 250. Only 40 get an unalloyed pass. A further 30 get a slightly debatable pass. That's less than a third. And most of the passes are more than forty years old.

Overall on that site, 55.44% do pass, but the site is kinda geared to finding films that do pass, so it is at least highly likely that most films fail.

Eh? 55% pass so it's highly likely most films fail?

 

[belboid]

As stated, because of the sites bias towards finding films that do pass.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

well, bechdeltest.com has scores for 224 of the imdb top 250.

The imdb top 250. Sorry, that's hardly a decent reflection of all the films that are to be sampled. According to imdb, The Shawshank Redemption is the best film ever... so a ridiculous starting point. You'd be better querying why so few non-English language or 'independent' films are featured there.

 

[belboid]

The imdb top 250. Sorry, that's hardly a decent reflection of all the films that are to be sampled. According to imdb, The Shawshank Redemption is the best film ever... so a ridiculous starting point. You'd be better querying why so few non-English language or 'independent' films are featured there.

You asked for an example, I gave you one. In fact I gave you two. You can refuse to believe it if you like, but you'll be wrong.

Or you can prove to me you're right. Good luck with that.

 

[DexterTCN]

Take it to the bechdel thread, guys.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

You asked for an example, I gave you one. In fact I gave you two. You can refuse to believe it if you like, but you'll be wrong.

Or you can prove to me you're right. Good luck with that.

You stick to the Bechdel test. I'll stick to finding decent films/tv shows to watch.

 

[belboid]

You stick to the Bechdel test. I'll stick to finding decent films/tv shows to watch.

From everything you've said, I would place little faith in what you find 'decent'

 

[Gromit]

I'm trying to think of a film where two men don't talk about a woman at some stage.

Shankshaw redemption and breaking bad fail this test.

 

[Orang Utan]

No they don't

 

[Gromit]

Shankshaw he discusses how his marriage failed... and how he was going to kill her but didn't.

Breaking bad. There are discussions about Jessie's two girlfriends.

 

[mystic pyjamas]

I'm trying to think of a film where two men don't talk about a woman at some stage.

Shankshaw redemption and breaking bad fail this test.

Lawrence of Arabia?

 

[BigTom]

I'm trying to think of a film where two men don't talk about a woman at some stage.

Shankshaw redemption and breaking bad fail this test.

You do realise this isn't the bechdel test applied to men, right?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Right, can we forget this bloody test now, it's on tonight, predictions....?

 

[Orang Utan]

No point in making predictions. Can't wait to see it but will have to wait til tomorrow night!