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I would want to double check there aren't any funny restrictions attached to the 16/17 railcard though. It only offers that fare on certain trains.

...ok - it's because you can't use it on Scotrail services. They'd need to get from Dundee to Oxenholme without using Scotrail trains. I think that would be possible using crosscountry or LNER trains but might limit their choices.
 
As far as I can see, a (no railcard) Super Off Peak Return, London Terminals to Dundee, is £175. I would have to check but I believe Oxenholme would be on a permitted route back, and a Super Off Peak Return allows you to break the return journey, so I think it would be OK.

they'd have to watch they stayed within these restrictions, mainly relevant to when they leave London on the outward journey.

I'm not familiar with the 16/17 Railcard - NRE doesn't seem to offer a discount on that fare. Not sure why as elsewhere it looks like it should.

A 16-25 railcard would bring it down to £115.50 - it might be worth getting one each.


*edited to add

16-17 railcard, I think, should reduce it to £87.50.

For some reason the NRE journey planner won't offer me that, but it looks like the LNER website will.

Also, on the LNER website, putting via Oxenholme offers the same fare as the default route (via York etc) and therefore I think it's a permitted route.
Thanks that’s great. Yes my understanding is the 16/17 should be 50% discount.
 
I would want to double check there aren't any funny restrictions attached to the 16/17 railcard though. It only offers that fare on certain trains.

...ok - it's because you can't use it on Scotrail services. They'd need to get from Dundee to Oxenholme without using Scotrail trains. I think that would be possible using crosscountry or LNER trains but might limit their choices.
Ah bugger.
 
I can only imagine the facial expression of any English-speaking lurkers from the Continent as they read the last few posts in this thread, illustrating the acrobatics and train spotter-level knowhow required in this country to make slightly complex journeys remotely affordable to those on a budget.
 
Could you do it using one of the super cheap Lumo trains to Newcastle and then a different service up to Dundee? It might not make much of a saving overall though.
 
You could do the whole thing with advance tickets (possibly including lumo) but it might not end up much cheaper and you lose all the flexibility. The longer distance off peak returns are often actually reasonably good value and despite having some restrictions, allow you to set off from london at times of day when you'd be very unlikely to find any cheap advances.

When Winot asked the question on this thread it so happened I'd just finished booking myself from London to Inverness and back. On this occasion I'm doing it with a string of advance tickets (including my first try of lumo) and it's saved me £50 or so on the offpeak return. But often I prefer to go for the offpeak return because I'm not tied to a particular time or route on the return and I sometimes take advantage of the break of journey rules to stop off and see friends in Glasgow, things like that, without having to plan every detail several weeks ahead. I've even taken the settle & carlisle route (or once gone round the cumbrian coast line) just for the hell of it because they are all permitted routes. Our ticketing rules & system are a mess, but might as well take advantage of it where possible. Hope the continental lurkers aren't too distressed by all this.
 
I can only imagine the facial expression of any English-speaking lurkers from the Continent as they read the last few posts in this thread, illustrating the acrobatics and train spotter-level knowhow required in this country to make slightly complex journeys remotely affordable to those on a budget.

if only a certain former poster was here to explain it...

:p
 
<bump>

This is either a dead easy question for you rail enthusiasts or it's going to involve my queuing up at a station to ask.

We are going to visit friends near Dundee at beginning of April:

(a) Me, Mrs W and W2 are going there and back (out from KGX 2/4, return 6/4) - easy direct route - have already bought return using Friends and Family railcard (we might break journey at Durham on return).

(b) W1 and her BFF are travelling with us from KGX 2/4 but then returning via Oxenholme 6/4 to stay with BFF family for a few days then returning to EUS. They can get from Dundee to Oxenholme via Edinburgh/Haymarket.

So the question is - is that return journey (b) a permitted route and if so can they just buy a return to DEE using their 16/17 Railcard?

If not, how do they do the journey/buy the tickets?
Just tweeted @lner to ask this question and got answer in 1 minute = yes it is a permitted route.

Thanks teuchter for input.
 
A question. All the cheap fares are greyed out and unavailable. Why? Will they become available again? I travel tomorrow. Have I got to buy 2 singles, at double the cost of one of the cheaper returns.

Ta.

1658302149380.png
 
A question. All the cheap fares are greyed out and unavailable. Why? Will they become available again? I travel tomorrow. Have I got to buy 2 singles, at double the cost of one of the cheaper returns.

Ta.

View attachment 333485
No they won't become available again if they are advance fares.

However it's unusual for a return fare to be offered as an advance. What journey is this for?

Had you already chosen an outward journey when the screenshot was taken? It could be that the returns would be available on a slightly different outward journey, for example with a different operator or using a different route.
 
£20 return tickets most days over the summer, not bad for heading for the hills of the Peak District from St Pancras:

 
Trainline is offering 1/3 off digital railcards according to the guardian

Trainline is offering 33% off digital railcards for a limited period. You can get a one-year railcard for £20, reduced from £30, or a three-year one for £47, reduced from £70. Use the code SUMMER33 at the checkout to get your discount.
This deal will end either when 400,000 railcards are sold or on 31 August, whichever comes first.
I got a network railcard during their Black Friday sale last year and it’s come in quite handy.
 
London centric travel and oyster cards need joking up. An oyster will charge the maximum equivalent to a daily travel card in one day. Technically, to get a train from Paddington to Reading, we should catch a train to the boundary of the travel zone at West Drayton. Tap out and buy a ticket from there to Reading. It doesn't work so well if you queue for a ticket at Paddington ( because the machines can't do this) because you don't do the tapping in and out at the beginning/end of a zone limiting journey. It's so much messing around.
In this day and age, surely it would be possible to tap in at Paddington, tap out at Reading and when tapping out, you get charged the difference?
 
In this day and age, surely it would be possible to tap in at Paddington, tap out at Reading and when tapping out, you get charged the difference?

You can do Oyster / Contactless to Reading (and also a few other places beyond the London boundary - looks like some do contactless but not oyster or vice versa)

Not sure whether any of these work out cheaper / more expensive than changing / re-booking at the boundary station, or how they fit in to daily cap limits.

Ultimately, Oyster is and always was a TFL thing. TFL could have sat back and waited for a nationally co-ordinated ticketing scheme across all modes of transport, but i think they would still be waiting for it...
 
You can do Oyster / Contactless to Reading (and also a few other places beyond the London boundary - looks like some do contactless but not oyster or vice versa)

Not sure whether any of these work out cheaper / more expensive than changing / re-booking at the boundary station, or how they fit in to daily cap limits.

Ultimately, Oyster is and always was a TFL thing. TFL could have sat back and waited for a nationally co-ordinated ticketing scheme across all modes of transport, but i think they would still be waiting for it...
That won't work for us. As it was TFL somehow mucked up the charges applied to Mrs Tags oyster as she was charged well over the daily limit on the day in question. We think this was connected with tapping I at Paddington and next tapping out at Shepherds Bush. I'm guessing she needed to tap both ways at West Drayton. I have a freedom pass which again, would not have coped with this. There really is a big need for a fully integrated system.
 
As it was TFL somehow mucked up the charges applied to Mrs Tags oyster as she was charged well over the daily limit on the day in question. We think this was connected with tapping I at Paddington and next tapping out at Shepherds Bush. I'm guessing she needed to tap both ways at West Drayton.

hmm.

i'm not expert, but think if the (apparent) journey from Paddington to Shepherds Bush took longer than the system considered reasonable, it will charge a maximum fare.

if something has gone wrong, it may be worth contacting them and trying to get it sorted out. I'm not sure i've ever had a need to do it, but from what i gather, it's relatively easy (if the same person does it a lot, they might suspect you of taking the piss)

I have a freedom pass which again, would not have coped with this. There really is a big need for a fully integrated system.

ah.

again, free travel on rail (and things like underground / trams / metro) isn't part of the national concessionary travel scheme, which just covers just buses. Some places like london do this as a local extension to the statutory scheme, and some places that have trams allow free travel for local concessionary pass-holders but not others (from memory, the nottingham trams only accept nottingham city and nottinghamshire county issued passes.)

yes, it would help if you could add some 'pay as you go' to passes like this for journeys that are outside the scope of freedom pass (i used to work for a tfl contractor bus operator so had a purple oyster card which was valid on underground and tfl rail / overground but not national rail, and it didn't have the capacity to add PAYG to it, so I had to carry a separate paid-for oyster card for that sort of thing. think i only cocked it up once or twice.)

but take it you know you can buy tickets from 'boundary zone 6' to places beyond london if you already have a travelcard / freedom pass to cover part of the journey? i think you have to get these from ticket offices not machines, though (again, with living outside london, i can't remember having to do this, and not sure you can do it for inter-city type trains that don't stop anywhere near the boundary station.)

and there are a few differences between the 'boundary' station for travelcard zone 6 and freedom pass. (map showing freedom pass rail boundaries here.) - freedom pass is valid (for example) to dartford, which is outside zone 6.

and some train companies ticket vending machines will let you buy paper tickets from stations other than where you are - again, i've not tried it on GWR, but SWR ones do - for example when I was commuting in to london, i'd occasionally want to travel beyond my usual station to go in to Reading for the evening, without getting off the train / going home on the way - I was able to buy a single or return ticket from wokingham to reading from the machines or ticket office at wimbledon or clapham junction.

at the risk of stating the bloody obvious, the general rule now is you should make every effort to get ticket/s for the full journey before you start rather than sort it out at your arrival station.
 
We certainly did make the effort to get the correct tickets before starting out and what a pain in the arse it was AND still screwed things up for Mrs Tags oyster. Ticketing should be so much easier and much more integrated. It's doesn't exactly encourage you to use public transport, quite the opposite. For people that like using public transport, this does not help.
 
Is there anyway to find reasonably priced train tickets??
I was going to try and see my patents with my daughter over half term. It's only 100miles, but it's £300 for an open return . . . I mean, that's just silly.
Obviously I don't need an open return but it's still about £80 a ticket off peak.
 
Is there anyway to find reasonably priced train tickets??
I was going to try and see my patents with my daughter over half term. It's only 100miles, but it's £300 for an open return . . . I mean, that's just silly.
Obviously I don't need an open return but it's still about £80 a ticket off peak.

Go after 9 or 10 or whenever peak period is. You probably won’t get much better than £80 but you could try the ticket splitting thing. Only people on business expenses buy open tickets :)
 
Is there anyway to find reasonably priced train tickets??
I was going to try and see my patents with my daughter over half term. It's only 100miles, but it's £300 for an open return . . . I mean, that's just silly.
Obviously I don't need an open return but it's still about £80 a ticket off peak.
Some info about the journey you want to make would make it easier to offer advice.
 
Go after 9 or 10 or whenever peak period is. You probably won’t get much better than £80 but you could try the ticket splitting thing. Only people on business expenses buy open tickets :)
I do get that (though it was something I could do when I was younger and it wouldn't be pricey at all).
I think I am just a little infuriated that such a short journey will cost so much. That's without the fact that there are almost no direct trains, so I will have to fanny around have have the journey take hours. It is inconvenience at luxury prices. Insane. No wonder nobody is using the flipping train. Yes yes I know inflation and all that, but I used to get an open return from London for £15, which can't have been that crazy a price for me to be able to afford it as a student. . . . though I think I did get the £5 bus instead.
 
When you were a student, was it pre or post WW2?

I'd be surprised if there's any ticket type that has gone from £15 to £300 in, say, the last 30 years.
 
When you were a student, was it pre or post WW2?

I'd be surprised if there's any ticket type that has gone from £15 to £300 in, say, the last 30 years.
Off peak open return from London to Westbury in the 90s
Off peak open return today and it came up at £300.

Anyway. It's taken a lot of pissing around on the train website. . . . . but if I leave at 7.30 in the morning on Wednesday and come back 3pm Friday I can get a direct train both ways with my daughter for £40 . . which is reasonable
So weird. Any other train and any other time and it costs a fortune and involves lengthy train changes.
 
For that journey, likely to be cheapest tickets departing from Waterloo. It might help to specifically search from waterloo (rather than just "london").

Also, doing a search from your local london station (rather than a main terminal) will sometimes shut you out from cheap fares.

I'd try from Waterloo and from Paddington.
 
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