BBC 21st Century Film List

[Nanker Phelge]

I haven't seen Boyhood yet, but it gets credit from me for demonstrating that film makers are still willing to spend time on a project, take risks, a commit to producing something unique.....

Many films on that list offer something greater than the brainless blockbuster cash cows.

 

[Reno]

Boyhood is great. I read a lot of "I didn't like it because it was overhyped" on the Internet. It's a drama about the everyday, small things of life so I don't know what some people were expecting but how it achives that is extraodenary. Seeing someone grow up before your eyes is miraculous and if it was just that, the film may just be a curiosity but it's a great and thoroughly unsentimental film about family life and growing up. It feels truthful and in its modest way it is profound. The characterisation is always sharp and Patricia Arquette fully deserved her Oscar a mom who tries her best with limited resources.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I love how it lists Caché by its French title so we can all pretend we watched it in the original French. And yet note how 'In The Mood For Love' is listed in English, because even liberal intellectuals can't be bothered to pretend they speak Cantonese.

For me that sums up the general ethos of this list. Films to nod approvingly at while stroking one's beard and sipping one's single origin espresso.

The inclusion of Synecdoche New York is a dead giveaway. That whole movie was a double-bluff hoax at the expense of the beard-scratchers. The final layer of illusion and representation in the film is the level at which the film itself wears the clothing of something interesting and worth watching whilst actually being neither.

 

[Nanker Phelge]

Boyhood is great. I read a lot of "I didn't like it because it was overhyped" on the Internet. It's a drama about the everyday, small things of life so I don't know what some people were expecting but how it achives that is extraodenary. Seeing someone grow up before your eyes is miraculous and if it was just that, the film may just be a curiosity but it's a great and thoroughly unsentimental film about family life and growing up. It feels truthful and in its modest way it is profound. The characterisation is always sharp and Patricia Arquette fully deserved her Oscar a mom who tries her best with limited resources.

Hey man, it's no Benjamin Button

 

[alsoknownas]

six reasons why the internet loves a list

You'll never believe number four...! etc.

 

[Reno]

I love how it lists Cache by its French title so we can all pretend we watched it in the original French. And yet note how 'In The Mood For Love' is listed in English, because even liberal intellectuals can't be bothered to pretend they speak Cantonese.

For me that sums up the general ethos of this list. Films to nod approvingly at while stroking one's beard and sipping one's single origin espresso.

The inclusion of Synecdoche New York is a dead giveaway. That whole movie was a double-bluff hoax at the expense of the beard-scratchers. The final layer of illusion and representation in the film is the level at which the film itself wears the clothing of something interesting and worth watching while actually being neither.

They are going by IMDb listings, which most Enlish language publications use as the standard reference for titles. Caché was released under its original title in most countries apart from the UK and Ireland. In the Mood for Love was released as a translated title everywhere. And yes, of course that is because an easily pronounced one word title is easier to market abroad than a five word Chinese one.

Synecdoche New York isn't a "dead giveaway" just because you don't like it. It may be a divisive film but there are plenty of people who genuinely love it, me included. If that makes me a beard stroker, I don't give a fuck (apart from that I don't have a beard).

Btw there are plenty of other film lists out there if this one is too high brow or "pretentions" for your tastes. Check out the lists Empire magazine publishes. This list also is nowhere near as high brow as the lists by Sight and Sound and Cahier du cinema. It's a fair representation of films which were critically acclaimed when they came out and which have maintained that acclaim or even grown in acclaim.

Anyone who is genuinely passionate about an art form simply like what they like, not because they think they should like something to impress others. As you experience and learn more about an art form your tastes change and you start searching out art which innovates and tries different ways of doing things, rather than work which recycles cliches and that type of work tends to be less mainstream.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The Tree of Life was shit as well.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Btw there are plenty of other film lists out there if this one is too high brow or "pretentions" for your tastes. Check out the lists Empire magazine publishes. This list also is nowhere near as high brow as the lists by Sight and Sound and Cahier du cinema. It's a fair representation of films which were critically acclaimed when they came out and which have maintained that acclaim or even grown in acclaim.

Nah Empire would be fairly pretentious as well if its anything like it was back when I collected it.

 

[Reno]

Nah Empire would be fairly pretentious as well if its anything like it was back when I collected it.

Mostly mainstream blockbusters and the most popular classics. Tarantino is about as arty as it gets in their top ten. Maybe you think The Shawshank Redemption represents challenging cinema ?

Empire Magazine's 301 Greatest Movies of All Time - How many have you seen?

Empire is not much better than publicity for the studios which they make you pay for. If you think that's pretentious than I have no idea what you think is mainstream.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Mostly mainstream blockbusters and the most popular classics. Tarantino is about as arty as it gets in their top ten. Maybe you think The Shawshank Redemption represents challenging cinema ?

Empire Magazine's 301 Greatest Movies of All Time - How many have you seen?

Empire is not much better than publicity for the studios which they make you pay for. If you think that's pretentious than I have no idea what you think is mainstream.

Whenever I see Reno battling anyone in the Film forum, I picture him as a plucky Teutonic Stigosaurus merking Asher Ds on demand



ETA In tone and economy of takedown and whatnot - video-contains-language-some-viewers-may-be-offended-by caveats etc

 

[Chz]

While the list definitely has its share of "terribly overrated", there are only a few actually bad ones on there (IMO, of course). Children of Men is surprising, but it wasn't a bad film at all. I thought Holy Motors was unbearable wank, but it was very pretty at least. The only ones that I couldn't stand that immediately scream out at me are Uncle Boonmee and Under the Skin (the latter being a pretty dividing film, but after a second watch I still don't get it). That being said, there are plenty I haven't seen yet.

Cool to see Mad Max on there. All action films should be that action-y.

 

[Reno]

I don't understand why the inclusion of Children of Men keeps getting singled out as being surprising. It's considered to be the best science fiction film of the last couple of decades, apart from that it's a formally astonishing piece of film making (the last act of the film is mostly one single take). Alfonso Cuaron is an innovative and hugely admired director. And as science fiction Children of Men is more prescient than ever, considering immigration is the dominant political issue of our times.

 

[stdP]

Children of Men is indeed one of the finest bits of sci-fi of recent times and easily Cuaron's best work IMHO. Worth the inclusion simply for the wonderfully evocative setting and the superbly detailed production design before you even start looking at the great storyline and an awesome cast. It's about as believable and real as a film can be and as action set-pieces go I'll place my hand on my heart and say that the Bexhill shoot-out knocks Omaha beach landing from Saving Private Ryan into a cocked hat.

Under the Skin I really thoroughly enjoyed (but then I had read the book previously, although it too can be just as impenetrable as the films appears to be on first viewing) although I'm not sure I'd warrant it classic status... I think it's just a bit too alien. The score is unmissably brilliant though.

Only just noticed Grand Budapest Hotel managed to make 21. Am I the only person in the word who thinks Wes Anderson makes nothing but self-consciously whimsical tripe?

 

[Chz]

Only just noticed Grand Budapest Hotel managed to make 21. Am I the only person in the word who thinks Wes Anderson makes nothing but self-consciously whimsical tripe?

It is. But with GBH he's elevated it to its own art form.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

While the list definitely has its share of "terribly overrated", there are only a few actually bad ones on there (IMO, of course). Children of Men is surprising, but it wasn't a bad film at all. I thought Holy Motors was unbearable wank, but it was very pretty at least. The only ones that I couldn't stand that immediately scream out at me are Uncle Boonmee and Under the Skin (the latter being a pretty dividing film, but after a second watch I still don't get it). That being said, there are plenty I haven't seen yet.

I'm the other way around , I love 'Under the Skin,' a great idea perhaps could've been executed more boldly. Think I need to see Uncle Boonmee again as I was underwhelmed, beautiful to watch not sure I quite get it but then it is a Thai film. I wasn't that convinced by Children of Men, not exactly helped by Michael Caine. Holy Motors is the best, come on what's wrong with you?

 

[Reno]

I don't like most of Wes Anderson films, but Rushmore, The Fantastic Mr Fox and Grand Budapest Hotel are great. I think Grand Budapest Hotel is on there because it transcends whimsy. It's a WWII allegory, there is more at stake than in his other films and terrible things happen . It's also one of his few films where I genuinely care about the characters.

 

[Reno]

I'm the other way around , I love 'Under the Skin,' a great idea perhaps could've been executed more boldly. Think I need to see Uncle Boonmee again as I was underwhelmed, beautiful to watch not sure I quite get it but then it is a Thai film. I wasn't that convinced by Children of Men, not exactly helped by Michael Caine. Holy Motors is the best, come on what's wrong with you?

I can't think of many films which got a mainstream release over the last decade, which were less compromising and executed more boldly than Under the Skin. That's what makes it so great.

I also never understood why people have a problem with Michal Caine's character, apart from that he's only in about ten minutes of Children of Men.

Uncle Boonmee is far from being representative of Thai filmmaking.

Agree with you on Holy Motors

 

[Chz]

I can't think of many films which got a mainstream release over the last decade, which were less compromising and executed more boldly than Under the Skin. That's what makes it so great.

I think that's what makes it at least an interesting film. It seems to completely divide opinion. No-one thinks it's "okay". They either think it's derivative trash, or a masterpiece.

 

[stdP]

I clearly just do not understand this director then. GBP left me absolutely cold, the WW2 "allegory" I felt was so ham-fistedly obvious that I thought Harry Potter did a better job of it. Ralph was brilliant as always but just too big a bag of meh.

Also placing higher than Memento?! Sacrilege.

P.S. Has anyone actually seen Son of Saul yet...? Fascinating subject no doubt, but reviews said that it's even more punishing to watch than a Haneke film so I've been avoiding it until my mood improves...

 

[Reno]

I think that's what makes it at least an interesting film. It seems to completely divide opinion. No-one thinks it's "okay". They either think it's derivative trash, or a masterpiece.

Unless there are some knuckle dragging forum troll whose opinion need not be acknowledged, I've never come across someone who thinks Under the Skin is "derivative trash", so that critical consensus exists in your mind only.

Any art house film which uses an avant-garde aesthetic to be purposely alienating is going to be divisive, as are many other of films on the list, as this threat shows. Popular entertainment is popular, art usually is divisive and most of the films on the list at least aspire to combine the two.

 

[Reno]

I clearly just do not understand this director then. GBP left me absolutely cold, the WW2 "allegory" I felt was so ham-fistedly obvious that I thought Harry Potter did a better job of it. Ralph was brilliant as always but just too big a bag of meh.

Also placing higher than Memento?! Sacrilege.

P.S. Has anyone actually seen Son of Saul yet...? Fascinating subject no doubt, but reviews said that it's even more punishing to watch than a Haneke film so I've been avoiding it until my mood improves...

I didn't care for Son of Saul and thought it used the Holocaust to prove a point about representation (or the lack of) which it didn't solve. I don't think a film is of value because it deals with a worthy issue in a way that is punishing. Depending on ones POV that can quickly end up on the side of exploitation.

I think Memento is OK, but like a lot of Nolan's films people confuse a film that is tricksy for being smart. I don't dislike it, but it is just where it should be.

 

[Chz]

Unless there are some knuckle dragging forum troll whose opinion need not be acknowledged, I've never come across someone who thinks Under the Skin is "derivative trash", so that critical consensus exists in your mind only.

Under the Skin
(Note audience score vs. critic score on that one)
Personally, it has nothing of interest in its style that I haven't seen executed better elsewhere. Which should not damn a film right away (Not. At. All.), but it's quite clear that it coasts on style above anything else so it has to be judged on it.

 

[Reno]

Under the Skin
(Note audience score vs. critic score on that one)
Personally, it has nothing of interest in its style that I haven't seen executed better elsewhere. Which should not damn a film right away (Not. At. All.), but it's quite clear that it coasts on style above anything else so it has to be judged on it.

How many films have you seen which shoot documentary footage of people which then become characters in the plot ? Under the Skin doesn't coast on style, it's detached style, which combines docu-drama with highly-styled, otherworldly scenes, is in service of the plot, which is about an alien's view of our world and her emotional and moral progress.

 

[Chz]

How many films have you seen which shoot documentary footage of people which then become characters in the plot ? Under the Skin doesn't coast on style, it's detached style, which combines docu-drama with highly-styled, otherworldly scenes, is in service of the plot, which is about an alien's view of our world and her emotional and moral progress.

I'm not going to argue about the merits (or lack of) of the film. It's quite sufficient to say that it does divide opinion. No-one has a neutral opinion of it.
But to answer the question, yes I have seen it done before. And not in anything that ever made it to general release. For good reason.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've clearly missed something. I found Mullholland Drive to be a piece of self-indulgent, incoherent garbage.

Yet people who know lots about film and whose opinions I respect love it. I worked with a film critic last year who had this as one of his top films ever. Yet his other choices for top films ever were Night of the Hunter and Seconds, both of which I think are magnificent films.

 

[Reno]

I'm not going to argue about the merits (or lack of) of the film. It's quite sufficient to say that it does divide opinion. No-one has a neutral opinion of it.
But to answer the question, yes I have seen it done before. And not in anything that ever made it to general release. For good reason.

Obviously we are talking about films which people have actually seen. Otherwise we can all claim "been there, done that, old hat!" when our arguement doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Pride, We are the Best, Attack the Bloc, Kick Ass, Maleficent and Django Unchained (far better than Inglourious bastards - which does get included) should all be in there.
No Country for old men can fuck off. Inception is pretty meh as well.

 

[Reno]

I've clearly missed something. I found Mullholland Drive to be a piece of self-indulgent, incoherent garbage.

Yet people who know lots about film and whose opinions I respect love it. I worked with a film critic last year who had this as one of his top films ever. Yet his other choices for top films ever were Night of the Hunter and Seconds, both of which I think are magnificent films.

Mulholland Drive is coded, but it's not incoherent. Lynch has a recurring theme where characters go into a fugue state after committing murder or experienced some sort of trauma and as a result they assume another persona. With its companion piece Lost Highway we see that process happen at the time it happens. With Mulholland Drive it's revealed in the last twenty minutes, which shows much of the film was experienced a wish fullfillment delusion by the main character. This also is a theme in Twin Peaks and Inland Empire (which unlike Mullholland Drive, even I found self indulgent)

 

[Reno]

Pride, We are the Best, Attack the Bloc, Kick Ass, Maleficent and Django Unchained should all be in there.
No Country for old men can fuck off. Inception is pretty meh as well.

Pride ! Kick Ass !! Malificent !!!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Mulholland Drive is coded, but it's not incoherent. Lynch has a recurring theme where characters go into a fugue state after committing murder or experienced some sort of trauma and as a result they assume another persona. With its companion piece Lost Highway we see that process happen at the time it happens. With Mulholland Drive it's revealed in the last twenty minutes, which shows much of the film was a wish fullfillment fantasy by the main character. This also is a theme in Twin Peaks and Inland Empire (which unlike Mullholland Drive, even I found self indulgent)

I might try it again. I didn't even get to the end of Inland Empire. I think I like the idea of Lynch more than the reality of him. Bit like Jarman.