Bannau Brycheiniog National Park

[kebabking]

Only Welsh people will ever call it by the new name. Everyone else will continue to call it the Brecon Beacons.

Not even sure it's that - my experience of Snowdonia under it's new name (Eryri), and of Snowdon (Yr Wyddfa) is that the only people who use the new/old names are people who speak Welsh as their first language, and so have been using the Welsh names anyway, and English 'incommers' who are desperate to be seen to fit in (people in outdoor gear shops, and artists, ime) - people in Wales for whom English is their first language, and English tourists, they aren't bothering.

Plenty of those who live in/around the NP aren't using the new/old names - and there's a term for forcing people to use a different place names/language because it suits a particular political/social outlook...

 

[planetgeli]

The kabbess tells me yes but a lot of Welsh people would probably just say it as something like “banner” because words aren’t necessarily always pronounced in their technically accurate way.

'au' is how plurals are signified in Welsh and it's always 'eye'.

One of the first words incomers to Wales see/learn is gwasanathau. Services.

 

[kabbes]

'au' is how plurals are signified in Welsh and it's always 'eye'.

One of the first words incomers to Wales see/learn is gwasanathau. Services.

How about Dolgellau? I don’t think that’s from a plural, is it? And I always say it with the “eye” at the end, but it is true that a lot the locals don’t seem to quite say it like that

 

[Elpenor]

Snowdon and Snowdonia are in line too, apparently.

Already done for the NP I think

And Ynys Mon / Anglesey

When I was on holiday last month in Wales I noticed that the equivalent job I do would need me to speak Welsh. While I don’t intend to move there (was just curious to see what the situation was) I was pleased to see this as it’s important to make the language thrive for lots of reasons and the public sector / govt bodies can set a strong example

 

[planetgeli]

How about Dolgellau? I don’t think that’s from a plural, is it? And I always say it with the “eye” at the end, but it is true that a lot the locals don’t seem to quite say it like that

The name Dolgellau is a compound of dôl 'water-meadow' and cellau, the plural of cell 'a cell',

 

[ddraig]

How about Dolgellau? I don’t think that’s from a plural, is it? And I always say it with the “eye” at the end, but it is true that a lot the locals don’t seem to quite say it like that

more of an "aye" for end of Dolgellau

 

[sojourner]

Very anglocentric thing to say and assert, why tho?
there's plenty of tourists and people who've moved here from other places than englund who actually respect the Welsh language and its usage

Because people are used to calling it the Brecon Beacons and no one can pronounce Welsh names apart from Welsh speakers. Because habit. Laziness. Commonality.

Why is that Anglocentric?

 

[ddraig]

Because people are used to calling it the Brecon Beacons and no one can pronounce Welsh names apart from Welsh speakers. Because habit. Laziness. Commonality.

Why is that Anglocentric?

because it's a very english attitude to other languages
People from other places can and do learn pronunciations of Welsh places

 

[marty21]

Lots of gammon rage on the social medias about this - as far as I can tell - you can still call it Brecon Beacons - but the official name is the Welsh version which is Brecon Beacons in Welsh

 

[planetgeli]

- you can still call it Brecon Beacons -

Nah, they'll lock you up for that these days

 

[sojourner]

because it's a very english attitude to other languages
People from other places can and do learn pronunciations of Welsh places

No, it's an understanding of resistance to place name changes.

 

[StoneRoad]

Snowdon and Snowdonia are in line too, apparently.

Change was done ages ago. keep up there !

 

[ddraig]

Can you do an audio for us Sais please?

 

[bluescreen]

I don't know what he's saying but I'm guessing it's telling me to fuck off.

 

[Plumdaff]

I think it should be called the Welsh name officially in Wales by Welsh and ideally English speakers because it's in Wales and is Welsh. I know tourists will probably continue to use words in their own language rather like I don't refer to Deutschland or Espana in general speech, and I'm not going to get exercised about it. People visiting the beauty of Cymru getting used to signage and using Welsh names when here is great, call it what you like at home in Suffolk or Limerick or Stuttgart etc

 

[Gromit]

Only Welsh people will ever call it by the new name. Everyone else will continue to call it the Brecon Beacons.

There will be an element of Welsh people who have grown up with it and so will continue to call it what they've always called it in personal usage.
The Severn Bridge is still the Severn Bridge as far as I'm concerned (Prince of Wales be fucked).
I'm never going to call the Millennium Stadium anything else regardless of my actually quite liking the current sponsor.

The new Beacons name ain't that difficult to pronounce if you are used to Welsh names* so I might slip into using one or t'other depending how I feel in the moment.

* Especially as I'm no stranger to Theatre Brycheiniog in the town of Brecon.

 

[8ball]

Only Welsh people will ever call it by the new name. Everyone else will continue to call it the Brecon Beacons.

I’m Welsh and am liable to stick with the old name. As are most other folk from below the Landsker Line.

The stuff about beacons and carbon emissions in the article is especially hilarious.

It’s just the usual middle-class Taffia media set telling other people what to do, say and think.

Best ignore them.

 

[Gromit]

I’m Welsh and am liable to stick with the old name. As are most other folk from below the Landsker Line.

The stuff about beacons and carbon emissions in the article is especially hilarious.

It’s just the usual middle-class Taffia media set telling other people what to do, say and think.

Best ignore them.

Yh apparently Pontcanna is now chock of media types trying to out Welsh language each other in a bizzare keeping up with the Jones media trend.

Gotta send your kids to the posh Welsh Language school. That sentence was an oxymoron when I was growing up.

 

[ddraig]

state of you 2!
what the fuck do the dicks in a made up posho enclave got to do with this name change?

 

[cesare]

I was busy thinking "my cousin went to a welsh medium school in Aberdare ffs, def not posh " then had a look round for current breakdown of welsh taught by regions etc. Interesting:

Schools by local authority, region and Welsh medium type

Schools by local authority, region and Welsh medium type

(not sure which link option is best)

 

[Plumdaff]

I don't think there's any doubt that Welsh medium education in places like Cardiff has an over-representation of middle-class white people, and I say that as a middle-class person whose child is in Welsh medium education. Btw your cliche is a bit askew, it's Victoria Park that I would claim as the middle class Welsh-speaking heartland of Cardiff rather than Pontcanna - more likely to send their kids to Howells or the Cathedral School there.

The idea that the fix to this long-acknowledged problem is somehow less use of Welsh, less Welsh medium education, or that it has any bearing on whether Welsh names should be officially used or not, is absolutely wrong-headed - we need to move towards a country where your class (and ethnicity which is another important factor in Cardiff, although in Cardiff people of mixed race are the most likely to speak Welsh) has no bearing on your ability to learn fluent Welsh in childhood. Schools like Ysgol Hamadryad down in the Bay are the future, not leaning into old prejudices and divisions.

 

[8ball]

...we need to move towards a country where your class (and ethnicity which is another important factor in Cardiff, although in Cardiff people of mixed race are the most likely to speak Welsh) has no bearing on your ability to learn fluent Welsh in childhood. Schools like Ysgol Hamadryad down in the Bay are the future, not leaning into old prejudices and divisions.

By "mixed race", do you mean kids with moneyed English parents who moved over the border?

 

[Plumdaff]

By "mixed race", do you mean kids with moneyed English parents who moved over the border?

I haven't interviewed everyone in the census, but I'd imagine there will be some people who resemble that, but also my daughter has classmates from mixed-race working class Grangetown, Canton, and Ely backgrounds, and I have several adult mates and colleagues with similar backgrounds who are fluent Welsh speakers. I can think of at least one member of the Welsh football squad with that background. Do you have anything to say about the rest of what I said?

 

[editor]

Only Welsh people will ever call it by the new name. Everyone else will continue to call it the Brecon Beacons.

Initially yes, but history shows that a lot of people do get used to new names eventually (Ceylon to Sri Lanka, Bombay to Mumbai etc).

 

[8ball]

I haven't interviewed everyone in the census, but I'd imagine there will be some people who resemble that, but also my daughter has classmates from mixed-race working class Grangetown, Canton, and Ely backgrounds, and I have several adult mates and colleagues with similar backgrounds who are fluent Welsh speakers. I can think of at least one member of the Welsh football squad with that background. Do you have anything to say about the rest of what I said?

I am not familiar with Ysgol Hamadryad.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Only Welsh people will ever call it by the new name. Everyone else will continue to call it the Brecon Beacons.

Absolutely. The majority of Anglophones will not be able to pronounce it.

I have spent time on the Brecon Beacons, including the Fan Dance, and do not remember them fondly.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Initially yes, but history shows that a lot of people do get used to new names eventually (Ceylon to Sri Lanka, Bombay to Mumbai etc).

Ceylon still for me, I don't collect Sri Lanka.

 

[8ball]

Absolutely. The majority of Anglophones will not be able to pronounce it.

Welsh is almost entirely phonetic - much more so than English. It's just that some of the letters and letter combinations link to different sounds.
It's not that many, though, so doesn't take much of a grounding to be able to say almost anything out loud from reading it, regardless of whether you know the language.

The new name is basically "Bann-eye Bruck-ay-nee-og", but pronouncing the "ck" like a Scouser.

First bit can sound more like "Bannow", depending on accent.

If an English tourist (asking directions, for example) gets the pronunciation exactly right, the local populace are under strict instructions to look blankly back at them until the tourist gives up and reverts to “Brecon Beacons”, at which point they are to act abjectly offended at the imperialist interloper’s laziness, then say the Welsh version back to them very slowly, as if they are extremely stupid., before sending them in the wrong direction.

 

[editor]

Absolutely. The majority of Anglophones will not be able to pronounce it.

They'll have to make some fucking effort and get used to it. The age of English imperialism over naming is over.

 

[sojourner]

Initially yes, but history shows that a lot of people do get used to new names eventually (Ceylon to Sri Lanka, Bombay to Mumbai etc).

Yeh I get that. On the other hand, there's quite a few places around here that have stubbornly remained with their original names, and nicknames at that.