Athletics

[Lord Camomile]

Tbh, I still don't really understand how tactics can play such a big part. Instinctively you'd think it'd simply be "ok, run your fastest 1500m, and then we'll see who gets to the finish line first".

I get other people are in the way, for one thing, but the whole "impacting other people through tactics"... nah, just don't get the actual physics of it.

 

[Sue]

Tbh, I still don't really understand how tactics can play such a big part. Instinctively you'd think it'd simply be "ok, run your fastest 1500m, and then we'll see who gets to the finish line first".

I get other people are in the way, for one thing, but the whole "impacting other people through tactics"... nah, just don't get the actual physics of it.

That's part of what makes it so interesting. Well for me anyway!

 

[Elpenor]

Felt like you could see Kerr watching him and pausing before going fuck I'll have to follow. Be interesting to watch it back and pay attention to Hocker.

Yeah maybe that cost Kerr, he probably lost a bit of his kick from having to cover the move which meant he didn’t have much left in the last strides

 

[Lord Camomile]

That was much better than the 100m. (I find the focus on the 100m a bit weird tbh. I mean I get the 'fastest man on the planet thing but )

That interviewer is a bit mean asking Ingebrigtsen if that was his plan.

Well, aside from "my plan was to win" (which, fair play, good answer ), you have to assume that was some kind of plan, rather than simply thinking "fuck it, I'm going to sprint it!" after 50m

 

[Boo Radley75]

Tbh, I still don't really understand how tactics can play such a big part. Instinctively you'd think it'd simply be "ok, run your fastest 1500m, and then we'll see who gets to the finish line first".

I get other people are in the way, for one thing, but the whole "impacting other people through tactics"... nah, just don't get the actual physics of it.

The tactics are very awkward because it isn't a sprint and it isn't long distance. You don't want to go out too hard but if someone does, you haven't got much time to catch them later.

 

[baldrick]

Tbh, I still don't really understand how tactics can play such a big part. Instinctively you'd think it'd simply be "ok, run your fastest 1500m, and then we'll see who gets to the finish line first".

I get other people are in the way, for one thing, but the whole "impacting other people through tactics"... nah, just don't get the actual physics of it.

There's an energy cost in going off the front, which is fine if you can run the legs off everyone else (e.g. Keely) but not so fine if all you're doing is letting people draft off you.

 

[Lord Camomile]

There's an energy cost in going off the front, which is fine if you can run the legs off everyone else (e.g. Keely) but not so fine if all you're doing is letting people draft off you.

Yeah, after posting I remembered drafting was a thing (though, again, I always forget that because I associate drafting with people in vehicles, and faster speeds, not just humans running ).

But aye, fair enough, that does make at least some sense.

Although... again, how does it "run the legs off people"? Particularly if you're using more energy running at the front than they are? Again, surely either they can run 1500m in a certain time or they can't??

 

[Aaronf]

Was Kerr faster than the old one too?

He was and so was Nuguse in 3rd. The previous OR was Ingebrigtsen's from Tokyo - 3:28.32. Josh ran 3:27.79, Nuguse 3:27.80.

Edit: Ingebrigtsen actually ran faster than it as well in 4th, by 8 hundreths - 3:28.24.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Tbh, I still don't really understand how tactics can play such a big part. Instinctively you'd think it'd simply be "ok, run your fastest 1500m, and then we'll see who gets to the finish line first".

I get other people are in the way, for one thing, but the whole "impacting other people through tactics"... nah, just don't get the actual physics of it.

Josh Kerr just alluded to part of the tactics in his interview. Ingebrigtson moved over to make Josh Kerr go wide but that let Cole Hocker through on the inside lane

 

[Sue]

He was and so was Nuguse in 3rd. The previous OR was Ingebrigtsen's from Tokyo - 3:28.32. Josh ran 3:27.79, Nuguse 3:27.80.

Rubbing salt into the wound.

 

[Elpenor]

Tbh, I still don't really understand how tactics can play such a big part. Instinctively you'd think it'd simply be "ok, run your fastest 1500m, and then we'll see who gets to the finish line first".

I get other people are in the way, for one thing, but the whole "impacting other people through tactics"... nah, just don't get the actual physics of it.

This is probably an entire chapter of a book, but if for example you know your opponent can outsprint you then you need to make the pace sufficiently hard so the lactic buildup means they can’t outsprint you

If you think you’re the only person who can run 3:28 as no one else can beat 3:30, you could try and run 3:28 pace from the start but then if the runner who can outsprint you is still on your shoulder with 100m to go… well ask Ingebritsen

The laps tonight were first lap fast, second lap a bit slower (but off a fast pace), third lap still on initial that fast pace with a surge and then a progressive build up to sprint the final 300

The fact Hocker was probably running a more even pace through 1200m than JK and JI allowed him to run a very fast final lap and win

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Steeplechase now. I rather like the Steeplechase though it's an odd one. Wonder where it came from? "Let's make a horse race.... for people!"

 

[Sue]

Steeplechase now. I rather like the Steeplechase though it's an odd one. Wonder where it came from? "Let's make a horse race.... for people!"

I used to LOVE it as a kid. Think it was because of the water jump (them getting wet, not sure how they managed to put it in the track )

 

[Aaronf]

To be fair Ingebrigtsen was honest and respectful in his interview and it was nice to see Josh Kerr as well focusing on the facts (NR/PB and upgraded medal) and was happy.

 

[baldrick]

I started to write a reply but I think Elpenor has it spot on about even pacing - a few seconds faster or slower over a lap makes a surprising difference when you're running near your aerobic limit & starts to push you into the red. Over a relatively short race there's no option to recover by backing off a bit so if you've started to accumulate a bigger oxygen debt that will make you pay at the end.

 

[Nine Bob Note]

Steeplechase now. I rather like the Steeplechase though it's an odd one. Wonder where it came from? "Let's make a horse race.... for people!"

It would be more fun if they chose horsey names and the BBC got racing commentators in

 

[shifting gears]

Loving Yavi’s childlike exuberance

 

[Boo Radley75]

Well done Yavi! Impossible to not love her. Thrashed OR by 6 seconds in the steeplechase too.

 

[Lord Camomile]

This is probably an entire chapter of a book, but if for example you know your opponent can outsprint you then you need to make the pace sufficiently hard so the lactic buildup means they can’t outsprint you

If you think you’re the only person who can run 3:28 as no one else can beat 3:30, you could try and run 3:28 pace from the start but then if the runner who can outsprint you is still on your shoulder with 100m to go… well ask Ingebritsen

The laps tonight were first lap fast, second lap a bit slower (but off a fast pace), third lap still on initial that fast pace with a surge and then a progressive build up to sprint the final 300

The fact Hocker was probably running a more even pace through 1200m than JK and JI allowed him to run a very fast final lap and win

Heh, see, again, absolutely following you and it's making sense until... if you can run 3:28 and they can only run 3:30, surely their sprint doesn't matter, because they'll still get there 2 seconds later than you? Like, over the course of the race everyone's pace evens out to "3:30 p/1500m" or whatever.

I mean, clearly not!

That said, I appreciate that it isn't as exact a science as that, and perhaps you simply can't predict anyone's time with enough reliability to be confident in a "you do what the fuck you like, I'll run my pace and get there first" strategy. Again, if nothing else because track traffic may disrupt your 'pure pace'.

Also appreciate the explanation and attempts to guide me to it. Think it's one of those things where I do sort of get it, but at the same time it still doesn't really make sense to me. There's just some cognitive thing that isn't quite clicking into place yet.

 

[belboid]

Heh, see, again, absolutely following you and it's making sense until... if you can run 3:28 and they can only run 3:30, surely their sprint doesn't matter, because they'll still get there 2 seconds later than you? Like, over the course of the race everyone's pace evens out to "3:30 p/1500m" or whatever.

I mean, clearly not!

That said, I appreciate that it isn't as exact a science as that, and perhaps you simply can't predict anyone's time with enough reliability to be confident in a "you do what the fuck you like, I'll run my pace and get there first" strategy. Again, if nothing else because track traffic may disrupt your 'pure pace'.

Also appreciate the explanation and attempts to guide me to it. Think it's one of those things where I do sort of get it, but at the same time it still doesn't really make sense to me. There's just some cognitive thing that isn't quite clicking into place yet.

but can you only run 3.28 when you have a colleague (or two) setting pace for you and taking the lead until you need it? Not like that in a real race. Didnt Ingers get the record in the Diamond League?

 

[Sue]

Women's 200m Again, a field packed with talent. Anyone want to make a prediction?

ETA I reckon Thomas or Alfred.

 

[Elpenor]

Heh, see, again, absolutely following you and it's making sense until... if you can run 3:28 and they can only run 3:30, surely their sprint doesn't matter, because they'll still get there 2 seconds later than you? Like, over the course of the race everyone's pace evens out to "3:30 p/1500m" or whatever.

I mean, clearly not!

That said, I appreciate that it isn't as exact a science as that, and perhaps you simply can't predict anyone's time with enough reliability to be confident in a "you do what the fuck you like, I'll run my pace and get there first" strategy. Again, if nothing else because track traffic may disrupt your 'pure pace'.

Also appreciate the explanation and attempts to guide me to it. Think it's one of those things where I do sort of get it, but at the same time it still doesn't really make sense to me. There's just some cognitive thing that isn't quite clicking into place yet.

Front running is incredibly difficult and tiring as baldrick says. These athletes usually have pacemakers in their races on the circuit to drag them to the fast time.

 

[Elpenor]

Women's 200m Again, a field packed with talent. Anyone want to make a prediction?

ETA I reckon Thomas or Alfred.

Gabby Thomas is the woman to beat

 

[skyscraper101]

Gabby Thomas, so totally would

 

[Lord Camomile]

but can you only run 3.28 when you have a colleague (or two) setting pace for you and taking the lead until you need it? Not like that in a real race. Didnt Ingers get the record in the Diamond League?

Heh, pace setters fall into the same cognitive gap for me, I'm afraid. It's all just part of the same assumption "you can run a certain distance in a certain time, so just do whatever you need to do to do that".

 

[Aaronf]

Women's 200m Again, a field packed with talent. Anyone want to make a prediction?

ETA I reckon Thomas or Alfred.

Got to say Thomas as well, be a minor shock if she doesn't win. Can see Thomas running around 21.50 if she goes all out and Alfred around 21.75.

 

[Elpenor]

Asher-Smith bronze?

Edit no just out of it I think

 

[Sue]

Thomas was miles ahead!

 

[Aaronf]

Bit slower than I thought lol.

 

[Aaronf]

1 Brit 4th in the 100m and the other 4th in the 200m!