Are there no meat-eating anarchists?

[8ball]

I'm not sure i'd call the food chain a hierarchy...

Can’t think of a better example of a hierarchy myself.

 

[Athos]

To be an anarchist is to be against hierarchy. Eating animals is a clear sign that the meat-eater believes in some kind of hierarchy and therefore, though they may claim to be anarchist, they are not. For the same reason, someone who claims to be an anarchist but is not also a feminist, is not really a genuine anarchist as they probably don't really care about the struggle against patriarchy and about gender equality.

But perhaps there is potential for these people to change as time tick away, perhaps not.

That's how I see things anyway.

I don't see any tension between anarchism and meat-eating. And your quotes don't prove otherwise, given it'd be just as easy - you can find this one in the footnotes to anarchism's Wikipedia entry! - to quote stuff to the contrary e.g.:

"Everyone who consciously rejects the domination of people by other people or by the social ambiance, and its economic corollaries, can be said to be an anarchist as well." Anarchist Individualism and Amorous Comradeship by Emile Armand

ETA: not that his individualist anarchism accords with others' (e.g. class- struggle anarchism) necessarily.

 

[Serge Forward]

Some anarchists eat meat, others are vegetarian, others still are vegan. These are generally lifestyle choices. Anarchism is not a lifestyle choice but is basically anti-state communism. So surely the best diet would be whatever is most workable, most easily available and replenishable in such a stateless communist society. This may be veganism, maybe not. But anyone who says you can't be an anarchist if you eat meat and associated products is a dick who knows nothing about anarchism.

 

[Toast Rider]

Can’t think of a better example of a hierarchy myself.

not in an anarchist sense

EDIT: foxes for example aren't superior to chickens, they just prey on them.

 

[NoXion]

To be honest, I'd say it's pretty obvious really. Ere, take a butchers' at this, I think this articulates things perfectly: What Do Anarchists Think About Animal Liberation?

“The horse and the cow, the rabbit and the cat, the deer and the hare, the pheasant and the lark, please us better as friends than as meat.”
― Élisée Reclus

Animals aren't part of society though. They never can be even if we "liberate" them.

 

[danny la rouge]

To be an anarchist is to be against hierarchy. Eating animals is a clear sign that the meat-eater believes in some kind of hierarchy and therefore, though they may claim to be anarchist, they are not. For the same reason, someone who claims to be an anarchist but is not also a feminist, is not really a genuine anarchist as they probably don't really care about the struggle against patriarchy and about gender equality.

But perhaps there is potential for these people to change as time tick away, perhaps not.

That's how I see things anyway.

I see this ones been banned. I thought there was something fishy.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see this ones been banned. I thought there was something fishy.

It was Humirax's alt-login, according to the editor.

 

[danny la rouge]

It was Humirax's alt-login, according to the editor.

I thought it was Francis Lengel again. Seemed a very similar MO.

 

[8ball]

not in an anarchist sense

EDIT: foxes for example aren't superior to chickens, they just prey on them.

The is no “anarchist” sense to the word. And foxes are way better than chickens. Except for laying eggs and going well in a curry, obv.

 

[8ball]

I thought it was Francis Lengel again. Seemed a very similar MO.

Lengel was funny.

 

[Toast Rider]

The is no “anarchist” sense to the word. And foxes are way better than chickens. Except for laying eggs and going well in a curry, obv.

Anarchists talk about hierarchy in the sense of groups in society and their relationships to each other. That doesn't make any sense in the context of nature

 

[8115]

Also remember that what people believe and what they do are very different. I think smoking is a disgusting expensive habit that kills you and dislike capitalism but I smoke and just bought some clothes from the supermarket so I'm not exactly following through on my beliefs.

I save meat for high days and holidays myself. I'm very on the fence about the morality of it, although not of intensive farming.

 

[8ball]

Anarchists talk about hierarchy in the sense of groups in society and their relationships to each other. That doesn't make any sense in the context of nature

The terms are used in an overlapping manner all the time. It can go the other way too. How high up the food chain are you in your organisation?
At root, the word "hierarchy" is very simple. It can be applied to both positions of social dominance and to ecological relationships as well as other forms of relationship.

 

[butchersapron]

In that sense then it's fine to talk of the management of certain hierarchies as part of how an anarchist society would operate. I think that questions both the now banned posters use of hierarchy and the idea that animals are by definition outside of society and its relations.

 

[Toast Rider]

The terms are used in an overlapping manner all the time. It can go the other way too. How high up the food chain are you in your organisation?
At root, the word "hierarchy" is very simple. It can be applied to both positions of social dominance and to ecological relationships as well as other forms of relationship.

Food chain just doesn't work for me viewed as a hierarchy. It's not as if there's any intrinsic right predators have to their prey, in fact most hunts fail. Prey escapes in most cases. It's a pretty flawed system, but that's just how life is on earth. I don't consider eating meat per se to be a moral issue

 

[JimW]

I don't consider eating meat per se to be a moral issue

I don't believe in any over-arching morality that isn't socially determined, so in that sense nothing is a moral issue per se. But morality will be about what we do and meat eating could certainly be considered, indeed has been since quite early in the history of settled human society.

Edited in "determined". Also should say I don't think it's at all a necessary part of communism but would expect it to change how we relate to all the non-human world as well as each other if it was to ever work.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't consider eating meat per se to be a moral issue

Then why the argument in the OP?

 

[Toast Rider]

Then why the argument in the OP?

there wasn't one. It was a question

 

[Pickman's model]

there wasn't one. It was a question

two questions, if you count

 

[JimW]

At least one largely rhetorical too. For shame.

 

[ViolentPanda]

We can't assume that everyone in the world would eat meat, nor that western levels of consumption (or non western for that matter) are required.

Or that we haven't overpopulated this pale blue dot

Ho-fucking-hum.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anarchists talk about hierarchy in the sense of groups in society and their relationships to each other. That doesn't make any sense in the context of nature

Doesn't it? You need to get out of the city more.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Food chain just doesn't work for me viewed as a hierarchy. It's not as if there's any intrinsic right predators have to their prey, in fact most hunts fail. Prey escapes in most cases. It's a pretty flawed system, but that's just how life is on earth. I don't consider eating meat per se to be a moral issue

It's not about whether an idea works for you or not, it's about whether the idea works for a vast majority of people - which the idea in question does. You, old son, are immaterial.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Then why the argument in the OP?

Because he's a twat.

 

[Toast Rider]

It's not about whether an idea works for you or not, it's about whether the idea works for a vast majority of people - which the idea in question does. You, old son, are immaterial.

what on earth are you moaning about

 

[Toast Rider]

Doesn't it? You need to get out of the city more.

that's not an argument, and I don't live in a city

 

[Toast Rider]

Ho-fucking-hum.

why are you posting?

 

[Toast Rider]

At least one largely rhetorical too. For shame.

Not at all

 

[Saul Goodman]

what on earth are you moaning about

You, talking shit?
This is two threads you've started today (that I know of) that were complete shite.
Carry on.

 

[Toast Rider]

You, talking shit?
This is two threads you've started today (that I know of) that were complete shite.
Carry on.

What have I said that was shit? You're just being abusive