Apple's iPhone <eta: and other smartphones?> tracks users every movement

[Kid_Eternity]

I've never heard of companies having information leaked or stolen, although that would be funny.

KoffSonyKoff.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

KoffSonyKoff.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

<snip> after all, it's not like somebody is compiling a worldwide database of router MACs and tying them to their physical location or anything is it?

and tying them to your search history, gmail details etc.

No, it's all a figment of our paranoid imaginations. Shame on us ...

We should chill out and fap to midget porn or try to get someone whose personal details we hacked to kill themselves so we can laugh about it while fapping to midget porn .. herp/derp.

 

[editor]

Mine was. I found it quite disturbing actually. I'd consider "abusive ex partner or PI recording the MAC address of your router and then using it to track you down after you move away" as much a threat as "partner or PI accessing your computer to find (some of) your movements".

I'm not entirely sure how your ex-partner would be able to search for your MAC address - could you explain this, please? - but if you were that bothered (and I really wouldn't be) then I'd simply buy another router - assuming that (a) I didn't leave the last one behind and (b) my new apartment didn't already come with one. Oh, and that's assuming that my ex-partner even knew the MAC address of the current one.

I've no idea what mine is, and I imagine it's the same for 99.99% of online users.

 

[editor]

and tying them to your search history, gmail details etc.

Perhaps you'd better disconnect now. You know, just in case they start tracking you.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Yep Sony PS3 owners aren't exactly happy right now. Imagine if Google users or iPhones had something similar happen to them?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Pretty agressive stuff Ed. Why? I never conciously picked a fight with you, nor did Fridge as far as I know ...

Here's Privacy International ...

https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/race-bottom-privacy-ranking-internet-service-companies

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Yep Sony PS3 owners aren't exactly happy right now. Imagine if Google users or iPhones had something similar happen to them?

Data theft could be far more subtle, you might never know it happened until you're spam became a lot more personalised.

 

[grit]

herp/derp signifies a very stupid part of the internet. You really wanna go around wearing that like a badge?

Why do you think that?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm not entirely sure how your ex-partner would be able to search for your MAC address - could you explain this, please? - but if you were that bothered (and I really wouldn't be) then I'd simply buy another router - assuming that (a) I didn't leave the last one behind and (b) my new apartment didn't already come with one. Oh, and that's assuming that my ex-partner even knew the MAC address of the current one.

I've no idea what mine is, and I imagine it's the same for 99.99% of online users.

It's all just a fuss about nothing.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

It's all just a fuss about nothing.

Sure it is ...

 

[editor]

Yep Sony PS3 owners aren't exactly happy right now. Imagine if Google users or iPhones had something similar happen to them?

Imagine it probably will some time or another, but that's not going to turn me into a quivering wreck wondering if someone's managed to find the Wi-Fi address I'm broadcasting over Brixton.

Being online is a risk. Using a mobile is a risk. You make your choices and you choose which risks you're prepared to take, hopefully from the basis of a reasonably informed opinion.

Right now, some people think it's fine for Apple to be keeping a secret file of their whereabouts over a year, and copying it over to any computer that their iPhone syncs with. For me, that would make me uncomfortable.

Google also stores info but from everything I've read to date it doesn't make me as uncomfortable as what Apple is doing. The Electronic Frontier Federation's dealings with Google make me feel a little more trusting of them too.

I don't feel concerned about my router ID mainly because it's not even in Google's database, so the threat of ex-partners hiring PIs to track me and my wandering router are very low indeed.

 

[editor]

Here's Privacy International ...

https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/race-bottom-privacy-ranking-internet-service-companies

That's FOUR years old. I know the risk is still there and growing in some quarters, but a four year od report is unlikely to be very illuminating.

Data theft could be far more subtle, you might never know it happened until you're spam became a lot more personalised.

I find the filters (incidentally, provided by Google themselves) do a very, very good job on spam. I hardly see any at all these days.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Here's Privacy International's ratings of Apple, Google and a bunch of other key internet firms

https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/race-bottom-privacy-ranking-internet-service-companies

They rate Google as most worrying, their reasons are well supported by evidence and argument, perhaps you might like to engage with the facts and logic they offer?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

That's FOUR years old.<snip>

What changed to make Google all fluffy and harmless?

 

[Will2403]

OK so its a shocking breach of privacy and blah blah blah...

but, is there an app for this yet?

I'd like to have a little video of my movements through the day.

The novelty would probably wear off, but it also might not.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I don't even have a bloody Android phone and my router's IP address has been scanned and tied to my geo location in the last few months (because I moved recently and got a new router).

When was it that I opted in to that?

 

[editor]

What changed to make Google all fluffy and harmless?

Yeah, because that's exactly what I've been saying isn't it?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

On the other hand, if I've got nothing to hide, what do I have to fear?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yeah, because that's exactly what I've been saying isn't it?

Well, it's consistent with the standard of argument you've shown in this thread. You want to hold to a higher standard I'm game.

 

[editor]

Here's a more up to date and relevant quote from Privacy International:

Till now, the only company under the scanner for tracking users, was Google. But now, the 'oh-so-innovative' Apple's receiving the pressure. It now has to explain to its beloved users why their "cool" devices have been storing location data. The Privacy International Association has accused Apple of "astounding arrogance" over its "continued refusal to take part in any dialogue over privacy".

Eric King of Privacy International said, "Apple thinks it knows better than the rest of the industry when it comes to privacy. Other companies have faced heavy sanctions recently and now the finger is being pointed at Apple. They cannot continually refuse to engage."

Read more: http://technorati.com/technology/article/ispyapples-latest-technology/#ixzz1KfkDL1ke

Here's their open letter to Apple: https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/open-letter-steve-jobs-regarding-ios-location-file
I don't believe it's been answered.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Sure and that's totally fair enough, Apple apparently (talking to a colleague at Privacy International) don't even have someone whose job it is to worry about privacy, but why must people who want to hold Google to the same standards have to take a bunch of shit from you ed? (I mean, I accept that this is your board and you can do what the fuck you like, but it's rare for you to exercise that privilege and I'm wondering why you want to do it on behalf of scum like Google)

 

[editor]

Well, it's consistent with the standard of argument you've shown in this thread. You want to hold to a higher standard I'm game.

Your arguments earlier were confused and rambling. Your claims of Google-derived, location based, price discrimination for services made no sense at all, and I've still no idea why you were citing train tickets and airline tickets in the argument. It's become very frustrating trying to make sense of what it is you're on about half the time, to be honest.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I'm happy to try to be clearer. Doesn't answer the question of why you want to give Google an easy ride on privacy issues though. I have no problems at all with any argument that Apple abuse privacy, but that's like saying Croatia were notably anti-semitic during WW2. Sure, it's true but there is another entity that might deserve closer scrutinty.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

?

 

[editor]

I'm happy to try to be clearer. Doesn't answer the question of why you want to give Google an easy ride on privacy issues though. I have no problems at all with any argument that Apple abuse privacy, but that's like saying Croatia were notably anti-semitic during WW2. Sure, it's true but there is another entity that might deserve closer scrutinty.

I'm not giving Google an "easy ride" at all - I'm simply discussing the issues as they come up.

I couldn't make any sense of your claims about Google's location based, price discrimination services stuff and so couldn't engage with them.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

What changed to make Google all fluffy and harmless?

Well quite, Google, Apple any corporation should be treated the same when it comes to our civil rights...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Sure, and you dismissed Privacy International's analysis on the grounds that it was over a year old, but what's actually changed about Google's invasions of people's privacy since they wrote that?

Not much that I'm aware of, other than Google finding new ways to invade people's privacy ... but perhaps you want to educate me here?

I'm all ears ...

 

[editor]

Well quite, Google, Apple any corporation should be treated the same when it comes to our civil rights...

Is anyone saying any different?

What's difficult is that this thread starting discussing one particular thing and was then - against my wishes -given a title change and broadened out to include far wider and at time more fuzzy concerns.

And as such it's become rather difficult to keep up, especially when I'm being accused of thinking that Google are all "fluffy and harmless" just because I didn't agree that the one specific scenario was a big enough personal risk to get me up in arms (not surprising, seeing as I'm not even in that database and I remain unconvinced of its PI/ex-partner attracting problems) .

 

[editor]

Sure, and you dismissed Privacy International's analysis on the grounds that it was over a year old,

It was four years old. FOUR years old. Four years is a very very long time and things can change out of all recognition, to the point of being irrelvent (unless the same claims are supported by more modern reference material).