editor
hiraethified
The commentators on that article aren't exactly impressed by the spin, are they
Apple's iPhone <eta: and other smartphones?> tracks users every movement
- Thread starter Kid_Eternity
- Start date
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
The commentators on that article aren't exactly impressed by the spin, are they
Totally, looks like horseshit to me, be interesting to see how Apple attempts to spin this given the US senate investigation and negative coverage in the press and blogs...
mauvais
on reddit or something
Cos it ain't continuous. It's like a big checklist of places and it ticks them off (with a time) as you go there - only once.Laughable.At least we know who not to go to for forensics research.
It's not new - ok, not sure how that is good.
It's not _really_ tracking users - how is it not _really_ tracking users?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tracking
I'm no Apple fan by any means, and I'm not suggesting this approach is right, but there's a lot of FUD generated around it too.
My bold - if you are geeky enough to know what this means, it proves the point above. MCC = country code, MNC = network code, LAC = geographic area code, CI = cell tower ID.Apple database said:
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
Android caches wifi connections and cell locations too, with latitude and longitude and timestamp:
https://github.com/packetlss/android-locdump#readme
https://github.com/packetlss/android-locdump#readme
magneze
🎧
Not sure of your point, can you expand on this?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
mauvais
on reddit or something
It might be tracking but it doesn't fit your stated definition of it.
Suppose that tomorrow I embark a fictional affair thrice weekly with a fictional lady from the fictional but quintessentially English village of Yermamington. After a number of years of doing this my fictional wife gets suspicious after I keep coming home covered in bruises and smelling of bleach. She somehow gains an intermediate level understanding of SQL databases, steals my fictional iPhone and is able to determine - - that I went to said village once, in April 2011. I claim that I went there to judge the local Boringshire In Bloom contest and never again returned. She poisons me a decade later and gets the last laugh after all.
magneze
🎧
I don't see how it doesn't fit at all. That's a bizarre assertion.Of course a digital system takes snapshots of the location, because that's all it can ever do. By your logic no digital system could ever be described as tracking!
magneze
🎧
Gotcha. That is marginally better, yes. Good spot.
magneze
🎧
Looking into this further, a similar story appears to be true for the WifiLocation table - one entry per Wifi MAC address. However, there is no such primary key restriction on the WifiLocationHarvest table which contains pretty much the same thing. I wonder how often that table is populated. This could conceivably be more tracking type data, but without an iPhone handy I can't tell.
Code:
CREATE TABLE Wifi (Timestamp FLOAT, MAC TEXT, RSSI INTEGER, PRIMARY KEY (Timestamp, MAC));
CREATE TABLE WifiLocation (MAC TEXT, Timestamp FLOAT, Latitude FLOAT, Longitude FLOAT, HorizontalAccuracy FLOAT, Altitude FLOAT, VerticalAccuracy FLOAT, Speed FLOAT, Course FLOAT, Confidence INTEGER, PRIMARY KEY (MAC));
CREATE TABLE WifiLocationCounts (Count INTEGER);
CREATE TABLE WifiLocationHarvest (MAC TEXT, Channel INTEGER, Hidden INTEGER, RSSI INTEGER, Age FLOAT, BundleId TEXT, Timestamp FLOAT, Latitude FLOAT, Longitude FLOAT, HorizontalAccuracy FLOAT, Altitude FLOAT, VerticalAccuracy FLOAT, Speed FLOAT, Course FLOAT, Confidence INTEGER);
CREATE TABLE WifiLocationHarvestCounts (Count INTEGER);
CREATE INDEX WifiLocationHarvestIndex ON WifiLocationHarvest (MAC);
2hats
Dust.
A key question is - iOS4 introduced encryption for the data (activate your passcode and you should see a 'Data protection is enabled.' message at the bottom of the Settings>General>Passcode Lock screen). Apple document that Mail uses the appropriate API. Does the core iOS system though and thus offer some degree of protection of this data?
On older devices that shipped with iOS3 and were then upgraded to iOS4 one has to jump through a few hoops to enable this feature:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175
On older devices that shipped with iOS3 and were then upgraded to iOS4 one has to jump through a few hoops to enable this feature:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175
editor
hiraethified
It's hardly in the same league as the iPhone leaving an unprotected file on both the phone and the home computer tracking a user's movements for up to a year (even across upgrades) is it?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
And this surprises you somehow?
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
The Apple thing looks like a bad implementation of a function that any smart device might want to do. There's no reason it should be in plain text, but I can understand why it is stored and can be shared between devices.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
If it stores a unique identifier, it's not anonymised. It's pseudonymised, and there is a large amount of difference between that and anonymised data.A "send anonymous info to Google" tickbox would not cover it.
moochedit
I'm not feeding seagulls
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
So what's in this for Apple then?
editor
hiraethified
But still a whole load better than Apple's fucking dodgy practices that leaves users with their precise, time-stamped whereabouts - for up to a year or more - left easily accessible on any machine they've synced their iPhones/iPad with.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It doesn't have to be anything sinister. It looks like it might be a simple programming error. That doesn't change the fact that it's storing the data in unencrypted form in a way that's accessible to anyone who can get control of your phone or computer, directly or via a trojan.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
In Google's case an Android HTC phone tracked its location every few seconds and transmitted the data back to Google several times an hour, according to new research by security analyst Samy Kamkar for the Wall Street Journal.
It also transmitted the name, location and signal strength of any close Wi-Fi networks and the phone's unique identifier.
Both Google and Apple have previously admitted they are using location data to build massive databases of Wi-Fi hotspots.
This can then be used to pinpoint individual's locations via their mobile phones, which in turn could help the companies tap into the huge market for location-based services, currently worth $2.9billion.
This figure is expected to rise to a staggering $8.3billion in 2014, according to research company Gartner.
Location data is some of the most valuable information a mobile phone can provide, since it can tell advertisers not only where someone's been, but also where they might be going — and what they might be inclined to buy when they get there.
A spokeswoman for the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada told the Journal the office 'had concerns' about using mobile phones to collect Wi-Fi data and had expressed those concerns to Google itself.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...its-user-locations-company.html#ixzz1KTF3M1Lq
It also transmitted the name, location and signal strength of any close Wi-Fi networks and the phone's unique identifier.
Both Google and Apple have previously admitted they are using location data to build massive databases of Wi-Fi hotspots.
This can then be used to pinpoint individual's locations via their mobile phones, which in turn could help the companies tap into the huge market for location-based services, currently worth $2.9billion.
This figure is expected to rise to a staggering $8.3billion in 2014, according to research company Gartner.
Location data is some of the most valuable information a mobile phone can provide, since it can tell advertisers not only where someone's been, but also where they might be going — and what they might be inclined to buy when they get there.
A spokeswoman for the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada told the Journal the office 'had concerns' about using mobile phones to collect Wi-Fi data and had expressed those concerns to Google itself.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...its-user-locations-company.html#ixzz1KTF3M1Lq
editor
hiraethified
Does it leave an unprotected and detailed file of all your movements on any desktop you sync your phone with?
As for Apple's ethics: Apple named 'least green' tech company
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/21/apple-least-green-tech-company
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Apple does sync location data with central servers every now and then, though not as frequently as Android does with Google, which is every few seconds apparently. Storing certain data on a phone and requiring physical access to it is an effectively insignificant security risk compared to a phone which actively sends your data to a central server. With a unique identifier. That's what people should be looking at.
eta: yes, Android does store a cached location file too, though it's supposed to have a lower retention time than the iPhone's.
eta: yes, Android does store a cached location file too, though it's supposed to have a lower retention time than the iPhone's.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Perhaps a mod can change the title of this thread to include Google's name along with Apple given recent news?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
What does it matter? - it transmits said file to Google - that's private info about your personal life becoming property of Google.
That's a bit misleading - the report estimated dependence on coal for Apple's data centres at 54.5%, followed by Facebook at 53.2%, IBM at 51.6%, HP at 49.4%, and Twitter at 42.5%.
It's more about the locations chosen for their data centres and the power supplies nearby, that the company directly polluting the planet.
Unless you're in the habit of syncing your iPhone with random public PCs that is a much lesser issue than some people are making it out to be.
editor
hiraethified
Ah. It's "misleading" is it? So you think that one of the richest corporations on the planet have no choice over where they decide to locate their business? LOL.
Google seem to have managed a different way of thinking:
http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/110421-144800
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