Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Apple iPhone

Status
Not open for further replies.
editor said:
Quite a lot of people in the business/smartphone sector, I'd imagine.

That's why the Treo has done so well and that's nowhere near as pricey as the iPhone.
Ah, but that market is so much smaller than the mass market. Which is a market which couldn't give a flying fig about word compatability or ftp access. Of course, it's ahead of its time - apple stuff often is. But give it 3 years, and I will bet you that the iPhone will be THE hot phone to have, and people will very much enjoy using one.
 
Crispy said:
Ah, but that market is so much smaller than the mass market. Which is a market which couldn't give a flying fig about word compatability or ftp access. Of course, it's ahead of its time - apple stuff often is. But give it 3 years, and I will bet you that the iPhone will be THE hot phone to have, and people will very much enjoy using one.
Apple's sky-high pricing hardly puts it in the mass market sector.

And I wouldn't like to predict what will be happening in 3 years time either.
 
editor said:
Apple's sky-high pricing hardly puts it in the mass market sector.

How do you explain the success of the iPod then? They are overpriced but still dominate the mp3 market. A mass market success if there ever was one...
 
Kid_Eternity said:
How do you explain the success of the iPod then? They are overpriced but still dominate the mp3 market. A mass market success if there ever was one...
The MP3 market is entirely different to that of the phone. The MP3 market was still relatively new when the iPod was launched.

The mass market expect new phones to be free with their contracts, with the networks subsiding the entire cost. People usually change phones for free after a year.

All this is completely different to Apple entering a mature mobile market with a relatively expensive upmarket handset limited to one network.

That's not to say that the iPhone won't be a success, but comparing its launch to the iPod is somewhat erroneous IMO.
 
Apple iPod - 5GB, 2001 - $399
Apple iPod - 4GB, 2007 - $199

agree with your point about the differences in the market though.
I still think that once the fantastic things you can do with a smartphone are really easy to do, then more people will want one. We'll see I suppose. I still can't wait to have a stroke on one of them :)
 
editor said:
The MP3 market is entirely different to that of the phone. The MP3 market was still relatively new when the iPod was launched.

The mass market expect new phones to be free with their contracts, with the networks subsiding the entire cost. People usually change phones for free after a year.

All this is completely different to Apple entering a mature mobile market with a relatively expensive upmarket handset limited to one network.

That's not to say that the iPhone won't be a success, but comparing its launch to the iPod is somewhat erroneous IMO.

I'm not sure it is in this case, remember this is also a an iPod but the one everyone has wanted since video; a widescreen one. I reckon there's a lot of iPod owners eyeing this up as their next iPod and looking at their phones and thinking they don't look as cool anymore...
 
editor said:
And you know all this before the iphone's even been released?

Erm, yes, I do.

editor said:
Remarkable![/QUOTE=editor]
Why, thank you young man

editor said:
AI'll make my judgement on whether the Palm is a 'spent force,' RIM devoid of ideas and Nokia dead in the water when it finally gets released.
OK, but if you take a look at the share prices for all three firms, investors already have.
 
pseudonarcissus said:
but with Mac products the price never comes down...they just add features or speed or memory...

Err, but thats the same as coming down in price is it not?

My old imac G4 17" 800mhz 756RAM cost me £1750 in Jan 2003.
Today I could get a 24" 2.33 duel core with 2GB RAM for £120 less.
Even the lowest level 17' imac is still twice as powerful and only £799.

I fail to see how you can claim that they haven't come down in price?
 
editor said:
I'll make my judgement on whether the Palm is a 'spent force,' RIM devoid of ideas and Nokia dead in the water when it finally gets released.

Companies like Nokia aren't going to miss the 10 million units that Steve Jobs says he is going to sell, even on that number Motorolas sales of the razar far exclude them. Apple are aiming a niche not a mass market - I doubt I'll see many corporate Iphones.
 
editor said:
The MP3 market is entirely different to that of the phone. The MP3 market was still relatively new when the iPod was launched..

Granted the MP3 market was relatively new - but the markets do have one thing in common - mobility. That's the key driver for both, and the mobile phone is inevitably part of the future of the MP3 (now digital media) market.

So what Apple has done is attempt to meet future - not current - expectations. And set a new bar for what people expect from such a device. Right now they are gathering feedback, and at least some of the features currently described as 'missing' will appear by the time it ships. And in any case, they are preparing a V2 model, probably for Europe, or so it seems.

You see, by meeting future expectations, that's how Apple answers the prevailing market drivers - by setting up new ones.

editor said:
The mass market expect new phones to be free with their contracts, with the networks subsiding the entire cost. People usually change phones for free after a year.

OK, so that's the mass market; but the mass market is to appeal to the dictatorship of the average. Apple isn't expecting to recreate iPod success in this market - total dominance - but is aiming to take a slice - and that slice isn't the mass market. 10 million sales is a considerable slice of cash to Apple's bottom line, more than enough to justify future innnovations in the category (if you ask me, they have numerous development options available using existing technologies - this time next year? There will be even more.

Meanwhile, existing makers must create their own software solutions to match iPhone's features; *sure, there are features iPhone isn't offering - yet*. They do this in-house, or they use Microsoft software. It took Redmond years to convince mobile telcos to work with Windows - the telcos had wached Microsoft's actions in computing, and didn't want their market to be in thrall to a proven monopolist, which Microsoft is. So that relationship isn't that strong.

editor said:
All this is completely different to Apple entering a mature mobile market with a relatively expensive upmarket handset limited to one network.
That's not to say that the iPhone won't be a success, but comparing its launch to the iPod is somewhat erroneous IMO.

So you mean erroneous in terms of future sales? The target sales are higher than those originally aimed for with the iPod - so, in a sense, the iPhone is a bigger deal.
As per the one network thing - that's in the US, Apple can, if it wishes, employ a different go to market strategy in each country. In the UK market it makes sense to deal with multiple partners. The US price, incidentlly, reflects a market in which the subsidies on handsets have been slimmer than those that exist in Europe. But the US is also a market which is only recently emerging as significant - US was slow to the mobile party, so there's plenty of potential upside in the US market for handset vendors, and CE spend in that country is higher than in others (partially cos groceries and petrol are cheaper there).

In the UK, Apple will probably cock it up, though, coming to market with a phone carrying little subsidy that's linked to just one network, so the impact here, once the oohs and aahs have gone by, the impact may be less significant than in the US, but certainly there's a lot of people here looking at the device who will buy one the minute it ships.

Nokia, Palm and RIM do have to answer back by then, so whatever brand you prefer, the good news is that the future is one in which manufacturers are forced to do a better job, offering better products.
 
Good post rocketman.

I think your on the money with regard to the diferences in the US network market.
I was dicussing this with a friend the other day, we both thought that the later shipping date for Europe was probably due to Apple having to negotiate a much more complex network provider market and savey consumers in Europe.
There's no way they can just go with one provider in Europe and esspecially in the UK and they must know this.
I think your right though - they'll still manage to fuck it up initially somehow :D
 
Very funny article from Sunday's Observer:

Armando Iannucci:
link

'Now, what's this? [Grainy, green video footage appears on the phone and is projected on to a large screen at the front of the hall.] Why, it's the notorious video-phoned footage of Saddam Hussein's hanging. This footage sent shockwaves throughout the world. Many people were appalled by what they saw. I was appalled. [Meaningful pause]. I was appalled at the poor picture quality of the images! [Audience laughter, which lasts for three minutes.]'
 
editor said:
The mass market expect new phones to be free with their contracts, with the networks subsiding the entire cost. People usually change phones for free after a year.

This is the key point in the uk. I've got a camera/phone/web/mp3/radio/application device that came for free with my contract, and very nifty it is too. Why would I bother to buy an iPhone?

The only reason you'd fork out cash for an iPhone is if you were (a) a fanboy or (b) a reader of cheekbone magazine.
 
fractionMan said:
This is the key point in the uk. I've got a camera/phone/web/mp3/radio/application device that came for free with my contract, and very nifty it is too. Why would I bother to buy an iPhone?

The only reason you'd fork out cash for an iPhone is if you were (a) a fanboy or (b) a reader of cheekbone magazine.

(c) in da money?
 
fractionMan said:
Why would I bother to buy an iPhone?

Perceived ease of use...? Quality...? Integration with Mac...? I've found that I don't change my phone each you. All of my changes have been to upgrade the phone with better features depending on my lifestyle at the time...
 
Well Fraction Man, why should you buy it? There isn't an answer to a subjective question like that. Just don't buy it. There. Bye then.
Now can we talk about the gadget a little more? Thanks.
 
iphone-keyboard.jpg


I've never been convinced by 'soft' onscreen keyboards - they're all fucking shit and useless for anything other than the shortest of texts - so I've always been of the opinion that it's going to take nothing short of a design miracle to make the iPhones any good for my needs (I send a lot of texts and do a lot of writing).

It looks like it's not going to happen.
....the touchscreen keyboard.....

We've all seen it done, but no one's ever seen it done right -- and Steve seems to think it's going to be off the chain. So why is Dvorak, noted tech pundit, and goader of Mac users and iPhone fans, reporting that he's got insider information that the iPhone's keyboard is complete crap and "people are going to return the phone in droves"?

Well, that might have something to do with the fact that he's Dvorak, but we did consult a trusted and well connected source who, as it turns out, has heard the very same thing from multiple iPhone users, and who further noted that an accessory keyboard to go with the device may become necessary if the touchscreen keyboard doesn't cut the mustard.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/08/will-the-iphone-be-undone-by-its-keyboard/

I think the lack of a keyboard is going to be a catastrophic shortfall on what looks to be a very interesting product. At the HTC launch earlier this week, the reaction in the room was one of sheer disappointment when we realised that it was lumbered with yet another crappy onscreen keyboard.

Can Apple really make the things usable?
 
It's a damned tricky thing to do. There's only a handful of companies that could pull it off, and apple is one of them, but we can only wait (no much longer) and see.
 
Crispy said:
There's only a handful of companies that could pull it off, and apple is one of them, but we can only wait (no much longer) and see.
I have extreme doubts that they'll come up with anything that's even remotely as usable and as tactile as a proper keyboard.

I've had virtual keyboards on Palm, Sony and WM5/6 devices and they all sucked the fat one. Big time.

Even my brand spanking new super slick HTC Touch is unusable for anything but the shortest of text entries - and if you've got something as high end and as powerful as the iPhone, I'd imagine you want to do a lot more than just look and point at things on it.
 
Thing is, the touch screen on the iphone is of a qualatively different nature - it's multi-touch and therefore has capabilities we don't know about. Maybe it can sense the gradient in pressure across the face of your finger and be more accurate about your intent? Who knows. I agree with you that a tactile keyboard will always be easier to use, but the iphone may be 'good enough' - I'd be amazed if it wasn't. Jobs wouldn't let it out the door otherwise.
 
editor said:
Can Apple really make the things usable?

(1) Dvorak is known to say things to get a reaction...

(2) What happened to actually using products before everyone makes a conclusion. The keyboard might be good. It might be shit. Why not wait and see...?

My personal opinion is that onscreen keyboards depend on the implementation. I've used some fairly shite ones and I've used some ok ones. And I'd rather have a big screen that has a on screen keyboard than have to lug around a set of keys that sometimes hardly get used...
 
It's an interesting one. But Apple's got a record of making things a little more usable in small steps - the multi-touchesque scrollpad on my MacBook P being a good example. One finger and it's a typical dull-old scrollpad moving the cursor around, put two on and you can scroll around the window, rolling pages left, right, up and down.

OK, so it's not exactly a huge improvement, nor a technical wonderment, but it does work very well. So much so that I genuinely hardly bother to plug in a mouse now - it speeds things up so much. Similarly it's so intuitive that I end up trying it on nearly every laptop now as a default.

The iphone's a lot more complex for sure, but I can't believe it'll be awful either.
 
jæd said:
(2) What happened to actually using products before everyone makes a conclusion. The keyboard might be good. It might be shit. Why not wait and see...?

That's a fair point, just last week it was all 'we should be open minded' and wait to actually use the Foleo before judging it. But this week its ok to rush to judgement on the iPhone...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom