Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
I thought Jobs was rather quiet on the hardware issue. I honestly think they'll be working on possible hardware modifications leading up to this 30th Sept bumper cut-off/reassessment date.
Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Not meaning that it was a clever plan as such just that they are a bit stupid for commenting on it. It'll play into Apple's pr plan which seems to be if you're in the shit make sure you spread it about so everyone stinks to high heaven!
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Poor quality iPhone 4 feature
The multi-tasking technology that the iPhone offers developers is very ingenious implementation of MT for a battery powered device.
Some may take issue with the restrictions but I suggest that before you do that, consider what full OS multi-tasking actually is and what it allows errant programs to do to your battery. Its mathematically impossible for one program to work out what another is doing*, so if a program goes into a tight loop you could wave your battery good bye in an hour or two, the OS can't know if what its doing is good or bad. So Apple have changed the scheduler so it doesn't do it like a full OS would to prevent this issue.
Like I say its all very nice tech, unfortunately the user interface they have come up with for all that nice tech is pants. They got the new intern or the cleaner to dev that in a day or two and ran with it.
*Alan Turning, Halting problem
The multi-tasking technology that the iPhone offers developers is very ingenious implementation of MT for a battery powered device.
Some may take issue with the restrictions but I suggest that before you do that, consider what full OS multi-tasking actually is and what it allows errant programs to do to your battery. Its mathematically impossible for one program to work out what another is doing*, so if a program goes into a tight loop you could wave your battery good bye in an hour or two, the OS can't know if what its doing is good or bad. So Apple have changed the scheduler so it doesn't do it like a full OS would to prevent this issue.
Like I say its all very nice tech, unfortunately the user interface they have come up with for all that nice tech is pants. They got the new intern or the cleaner to dev that in a day or two and ran with it.
*Alan Turning, Halting problem
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
What would it look like better implemented?
I don't ask to be confrontational, I ask simply because I have no other experience of multitasking on a phone, so this MT in iOS4 is my only frame of reference (and seeing as though I know no different, it works fine for me).
I don't ask to be confrontational, I ask simply because I have no other experience of multitasking on a phone, so this MT in iOS4 is my only frame of reference (and seeing as though I know no different, it works fine for me).
G. Fieendish
Snark Hunter
According to a item in The Register, Apple may have already fixed the hardware problem, but dare not publicly say so, for liability issues in the U.S...
(Apparently, some of the very latest i Phone 4's that do not have the signal dedregration problems, have a slightly duller metal rear casing, then ones that do, thus inferring that Apple has slightly changed the metallic composition of the rear casing in order to reduce/eliminate this problem ).
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
WebOS is the best ui for multi-tasking I've seen. The card system is excellent.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Heh Apple have a page with dedicated to the issue of phone reception too: http://www.apple.com/antenna/
That reception testing room they showed was something else, never imagine things like that would look so futuristic, reminded me of Cerebo from the Xmen films.
That reception testing room they showed was something else, never imagine things like that would look so futuristic, reminded me of Cerebo from the Xmen films.
maldwyn
What?
Hilarious the way they spend $100 million on testing rooms then use what looks like a rubber band dropped by a postie to secure the phone.That reception testing room they showed was something else, never imagine things like that would look so futuristic, reminded me of Cerebo from the Xmen films.
(I took a screenshot from this Apple video http://www.apple.com/antenna/testing-lab.html)
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Heh crazy I can get my 3GS to drop it's bars from 5 to 2 doing the 'death grip'!
grit
an ugly force for good
It would actually multi task, i.e several applications running at once rather than freezing them on the switch its an important distinction.
Android does it fine.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
What's the comparison on battery life between an android phone and a iOS4 device?
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
What benefits would that bring?
editor
hiraethified
Loads. With the Palm I could have a music streaming website open and playing music, have several active IM windows open, take a call in the middle of a game and go straight back (or receive mail/text notification within the game and keep on playing), have websites open and updating, Twitter updates etc etc.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
You show up your lack of knowledge in operating system design. NT is a purely event driven system. When a process has nothing to do the scheduler will never schedule it, not one of its instructions will get executed. If this situation persists it will get removed from memory, all that will be left is the process handle and its stack.
What Apple have done is make this process less transparent to the Application.
Unrestricted MT would leave the battery life open to destruction by 3rd party. I refer you to the problems MS had with NT4 over NT3.51. My last job had a 3.51 box and that ran for 11 years straight without the need to reboot. For performance reasons they moved the graphics card drivers into ring 0 of the OS in NT 4. This meant that dodgy graphics card drivers could crash the OS. Of course that is exactly what they did.
Who got the blame?
I would make running applications icons a different shape like round or star like with the cross to kill them off. Wave goodbye to the task bar.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Isn't the point of iOS4's MT that you can do that too? In terms of taking a call in the middle of a game and going right back, for example, I've been doing that. Streaming music while browsing online, well I know the iPod bit can do that now, and I'm waiting for my fave streaming app to release an update that supports that, but once they do I'll be able to. All my photo apps now support (or are developing updates to support) background uploading and processing.
Honestly, I'm not trying to say 'Apple does it all just as well' because I don't have any experience of other MT phones, but from my limited use of iOS4 so far, and for what I use it for, I'm struggling to see how it's failing me in any way.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
The only problem with that is that now people are utilising folders, you'd have to 'drill down' into a folder to find the app to close anyway.
Is it necessary to fully close the apps? I've been occasionally going to the task bar and closing ones I'm not likely to use again for a while, but I've probably got 8 in there at any one time. I'm not noticing a rapidly decreasing battery. I thought the idea was that it was on pause until you needed it again?
editor
hiraethified
The iPhone's multi tasking is seriously limited compared to the webOS:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/198688/iphone_multitasking_were_still_waiting.html
grit
an ugly force for good
Yes, if the process doesn't have anything to do it wont be scheduled, so what?
Its obviously not all doom and gloom to not restrict 3rd party developers so much, somehow amazingly through some feat that defies all logic and engineering principles other mobile operating systems manage to do it.
You are also putting the blame in the wrong place regarding your comparison (which is apples and oranges anyway), the issue is a poorly developed driver not the architecture its plugging into.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
That article didn't really explain the differences between iOS4 and webOS, but, despite its rather combative tone, I take on board what the author is saying. However, as I said earlier, I'm yet to experience any feeling that iOS4 MT is failing me in any way. App switching is fantastic. So what if it's paused? I'd rather that than the battery drain while it runs in the background while I'm not using it. I'm never going to want to be able to physically play a game while looking up train times - it's a physical impossibility to do both at the same time. I can switch instantly between the two. I can also play music while I do either. I can have my photos upload or process in the background while I'm playing a game. I don't expect to be able to take photos while I'm playing a game. Why would I? It provides all the MT I could ever want.
I'm happy to accept others might want more.
Structaural
in Chatsubo
That article was meaningless, it's biggest problem seemed to be the fact that devs would actually (shock horror) have to update their apps for a new operating system.
As mentioned before, all the things you used to do can be done with the OS 4 multi-tasking implementation - it's just allowing more of the Unix core to run with liberal use of the suspend command. What exactly do you need to do in the background that isn't implemented here?
WebOS was java based, all apps were essentially widgets, much easier to make work than managing full on C compiled apps.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
They don't want their iPhone image tarnished by third parties. Apple are a very image focused company.
It will MT as well as any other phone. Those OS are just using the standard scheduler approach which IMO is a bit lazy on a battery device. Android batteries are a bit on the short side or have huge batteries.
I am well impressed by the battery life of my iPhone 4. Three days light use and it finally got to the 20% screen.
grit
an ugly force for good
Android's battery life, in fact most smartphone batteries are reasonably similar to performance (iphone 4 may have upped the game but that just means the next HTC generation will be at the same level).
The decision by Apple is essentially misplaced distrust in developers, we know not to have unnecessary processes running.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
MS put all their trust into developer and got the shit kicked out of them for it. I can understand Apples reluctance. Developers are generally pretty shit when it comes down to it.
grit
an ugly force for good
Its a different eco system, comparisons with windows are outdated and don't appreciate the differences. Its also a bit dramatic to say Microsoft got the shit kicked out of them for it, whats the most dominant OS today?
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
'Blue screen of death' is something that Microsoft got accused of causing from the advent of NT4 till the release of XP.
Nothing to do with the eco system. Its about learning from other peoples past mistakes, understanding developer behaviour and not being plugged into the wall. No developer will do more than have a passing interest in battery life, they are much happier to leave it to Apple to sort out. Apple are in a much better place to do it.
There a fairly limited number of full operating systems on the planet, even fewer successful ones, they are design patterns so you can't really deviate from them too much and if you. I think this deviation is a clever one. The implementation means that a dodgy app (and I've have a fair few crappy ones) cant tight loop in the background and kill the battery.
grit
an ugly force for good
You should head down to some of the London mobile developer meetups and say that lol
Have you actually ever done any mobile development?
Regarding microsoft's relationship with developers, watch steve ballmers famous video
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
grit
an ugly force for good
Someone did the maths on the % responses Apple are getting over the antenna issue. Looks to be about 700 a day! http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-has-400x-higher-complaint-rate-than-htc.aspx
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Very nice free news app from CNN just released. Well worth getting if you a good spread of news.
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