Apple iPad and related items

[Kid_Eternity]

Apple iPad is announced

Right on cue, some leaked docs are showing off the HP's specs:

http://www.wirefresh.com/hp-slate-video-shows-off-ipad-pwning-possibilities/

That thing looks far too chunky, and the screen ui doesn't look anywhere near as smooth as the ipad...

 

[editor]

It's impossible for HP to reskin an entire OS and all its applications. We've seen this over and over with WinMo. Microsoft themselves gave up and have chucked it in the bin. It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.

If HTC can cover over the indescribable hideousness of Windows Mobile to provide a phone as delightful as the HD2, then I wouldn't say it's impossible for HP to do a decent job on the already-attractive W7.

That thing looks far too chunky, and the screen ui doesn't look anywhere near as smooth as the ipad...

There's not a lot between the two on the dimensions, and it weighs a little less.

 

[Sunray]

It's impossible for HP to reskin an entire OS and all its applications. We've seen this over and over with WinMo. Microsoft themselves gave up and have chucked it in the bin. It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.

For anyone who might assume, from the post above, that Engadget don't understand this... here's the paragragh that was omitted:

"Of course, what this spec list doesn't cover is software, and we still haven't seen much of how HP plans to make Windows 7 on a full slate device with netbook-class internals perform as smoothly or as intuitively as its demo videos. That's not a small challenge, especially since the iPad is out now and setting some pretty high expectations for how this new breed of tablets should work. We've got our fingers crossed -- show us something good, HP."

You clearly haven't used the full multi touch interface of W7. Its been heralded as very impressive by many people. Its the real deal, full multi touch capability built right into the OS. No re-skinning or anything extra to be done by HP unless they feel they need it. You could quite happily remove their UI and it will be as usable as the iPad.

So I am very interested in the slate, its got all the things the iPad doesn't, has a nicer name and is a proper PC running Windows 7, a great OS that is without peer at the moment.

 

[editor]

This developer seems to have had a pretty shit time of things, although I'm guessing she still gets her money through even though the app got yanked?
http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/05/fa...-facebook-ultimate-removed-from-the-app-store

 

[paolo]

You clearly haven't used the full multi touch interface of W7. Its been heralded as very impressive by many people. Its the real deal, full multi touch capability built right into the OS. No re-skinning or anything extra to be done by HP unless they feel they need it. You could quite happily remove their UI and it will be as usable as the iPad.

So I am very interested in the slate, its got all the things the iPad doesn't, has a nicer name and is a proper PC running Windows 7, a great OS that is without peer at the moment.

When you say multi touch capability, what does that mean for the typical Windows app? Are they usable? Or do they need to be redeveloped?

(Perhaps not a fair challenge, given how few iPad apps there are at the moment, but what you're describing sounds too good to be true)

 

[sunnysidedown]

It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.

and that's where people like the editor fail in understanding a device like the iPad.

and ed, for a supposed 'tech' writer you come over more as a gadget man.

 

[TopCat]

All that whooping and clapping and high fiving at the Apple store on the telly made me puke. The only thing worse was that the people in the Q were all filming their entry to the store.

 

[Crispy]

I used windows 7 on a touchscreen device over the weekend. Usability was a JOKE. It had an atom processor and got uncomfortably warm and ran out of power in a couple of hours. It had a stylus, which you needed to use as soon as you used a 3rd party bit of software. It was plasticky and flimsy. Terrible. This slate thing will have to be an order of magnitude better than that.

 

[ernestolynch]

Which of these gadgets only need one hand to operate them?

 

[Crispy]

oooh, is this going to be a wanking joke? they're well funny they are

 

[ernestolynch]

oooh, is this going to be a wanking joke? they're well funny they are

No lol. I post on here on my sony w890i mobile. Just need one hand as the other is invariably holding a baby or a drink. My mate has to put his pint down to use the HD2 touch screen. One handed browsing is good for while I am driving too.

 

[Kanda]

No lol. I post on here on my sony w890i mobile. Just need one hand as the other is invariably holding a baby or a drink. My mate has to put his pint down to use the HD2 touch screen. One handed browsing is good for while I am driving too.

But this isn't a mobile phone, or even meant to be anything similar to one..

 

[ernestolynch]

But this isn't a mobile phone, or even meant to be anything similar to one..

Though the last few posts are about Windows Mobile and the HTC. Keep up.

 

[Kanda]

Though the last few posts are about Windows Mobile and the HTC. Keep up.

That's talking about interface design and shortcomings, not the device itself. Keep up

 

[ernestolynch]

Ok.

 

[Sunray]

When you say multi touch capability, what does that mean for the typical Windows app? Are they usable? Or do they need to be redeveloped?

(Perhaps not a fair challenge, given how few iPad apps there are at the moment, but what you're describing sounds too good to be true)

All the W7 common controls have been made multi-touch. Vista has had enormo icons.

Zooming via the scroll wheel has been mapped to pinch. Developers would have to make something touch enabled if they wanted to take advantage of it.

This is all irrelevant simply because the iPad offers less than a normal net book with a mouse and keyboard and access to all the window apps. People are talking like applications are a new thing?

The phone space Apple has a winner. The netbook space, the net book wins in so many ways the iPad is an irrelevance. Both are compromises but Apples walled garden is far too much bullshit to take when I can get a very nice little machine that does so much more for less.

 

[editor]

and that's where people like the editor fail in understanding a device like the iPad.

and ed, for a supposed 'tech' writer you come over more as a gadget man.

I am more than aware of the excellence of the iPad's interface and have said so many times both on here and elsewhere in my capacity as a tech writer, so STFU up with the cheap, moronic ad hominems. Thanks.

 

[editor]

I used windows 7 on a touchscreen device over the weekend. Usability was a JOKE. It had an atom processor and got uncomfortably warm and ran out of power in a couple of hours. It had a stylus, which you needed to use as soon as you used a 3rd party bit of software. It was plasticky and flimsy. Terrible. This slate thing will have to be an order of magnitude better than that.

What was the device?

 

[Crispy]

What was the device?

Can't remember, it was round dervish's place. It had a slide-out keyboard that then tilted to make it laptop-py. It had a tiny (useless) touchpad, a fingerprint reader and hardware mouse buttons.

EDIT: oh and it somehow had windows mobile on there too, on the windows 7 dekstop, which I didn't really understand.

 

[editor]

Can't remember, it was round dervish's place. It had a slide-out keyboard that then tilted to make it laptop-py. It had a tiny (useless) touchpad, a fingerprint reader and hardware mouse buttons.

EDIT: oh and it somehow had windows mobile on there too, on the windows 7 dekstop, which I didn't really understand.

Are you sure it wasn't some sort of horrid hack?

 

[Crispy]

no idea about the WM bit, but everything else was the intended device. came out last year I think. It was a horribly compromised machine, which ran out of battery quickly and could barely play youtube.

 

[editor]

no idea about the WM bit, but everything else was the intended device. It was a horribly compromised machine. came out last year I think.

It sounds more like an over-specced smartphone rather than a proper attempt at a tablet, no?

Either way, I suspect HP's offering is going to be something of a more focussed and slick affair rather than the horrible botch you've described.

 

[Crispy]

I suspect it will be, but it'll have to be a LOT better

Personally, I don't think a desktop OS has any place on a tablet - as soon as you step outside the specially prepared interface into a 3rd-party app you'll run up against an interface designed for keyboard + mouse. It's the same problem that the WM phones had/have - the custom UI is lovely, but creaky old windows is still there underneath. And with every manufacturer bringing their own stick-on UI, developers have no incentive to make touch-enabled versions of their apps.

When you make software for the ipad/pod/phone you must make it for touch. If you're making software for the HP slate, you're making it for Windows.

 

[editor]

I suspect it will be, but it'll have to be a LOT better

Personally, I don't think a desktop OS has any place on a tablet - as soon as you step outside the specially prepared interface into a 3rd-party app you'll run up against an interface designed for keyboard + mouse. It's the same problem that the WM phones had/have - the custom UI is lovely, but creaky old windows is still there underneath. And with every manufacturer bringing their own stick-on UI, developers have no incentive to make touch-enabled versions of their apps.

When you make software for the ipad/pod/phone you must make it for touch. If you're making software for the HP slate, you're making it for Windows.

I'd be happier taking a tablet with an easy to use touch interface for all the regular tasks - browsing, email, photos etc - and then being able to switch to a pen interface for using 'serious' apps like Photoshop etc - over a super-simplified, basic device like the iPad. The resolutely linear, over-sized button approach of the iPhone drives me mad enough as it is!

 

[Cm7]

I suspect the next big thing from Apple would be a touchscreen macbook pro

 

[Crispy]

I suspect the next big thing from Apple would be a touchscreen macbook pro

which would be just as compromised as a touchscreen windows computer.
I expect larger ipads though, but not for a year or two.

 

[Cm7]

which would be just as compromised as a touchscreen windows computer.
I expect larger ipads though, but not for a year or two.

I thought that would be a better strategy - touchscreen macbook, rather than the oversize iphone - ipad.

A even larger ipad? I can't imagine the practicality of it. It'd be home based mostly.

 

[Cm7]

But then again, they have the 17" macbook around... it's too huge being portable imo.

 

[gabi]

im trying to imagine using this for my job (print design). i can see indesign being pretty cool... but photoshop or illustrator...? paths/beziers with your fingers? hmm... maybe.. i havent tried the PS app on my ipod, is it any good?

 

[Crispy]

I thought that would be a better strategy - touchscreen macbook, rather than the oversize iphone - ipad.

A even larger ipad? I can't imagine the practicality of it. It'd be home based mostly.

The problem is that OSX is designed for mouse and keyboard. There are actions you can make with a mouse that can't be done with touch. Click+drag is the most obvious, but there's mouseover and keyboard modifers as well (eg. Alt+Click). This is why windows sucks on tablets, and it's why regular OSX would too, and it's why the ipad runs mobile OSX

im trying to imagine using this for my job (print design). i can see indesign being pretty cool... but photoshop or illustrator...? paths/beziers with your fingers? hmm... maybe.. i havent tried the PS app on my ipod, is it any good?

These tasks are best done on a proper computer. It's not what the ipad's designed for