It runs shitly on a comparatively high percentage of those 95% of computers though. And many of the world's worst designed and most fatuous websites are Flash based. I'm not going to shed a tear that it's lost, nor that legions of clunky flash developers will have to become more trained.
Apple iPad and related items
- Thread starter paolo
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Can't edit for some reason, but I think it's fair to say that most decent sized firms and corporates didn't go for gaudy websites with background music and awfulness aplenty. That way lies new age and conspiraloon websites.
However, nearly every company in the world will now have repeatedly been presented overblown Flash intros and near usable bits of nonsense by agencies and producers. There's some good flash stuff, but it does tend to overindulge the awful too.
However, nearly every company in the world will now have repeatedly been presented overblown Flash intros and near usable bits of nonsense by agencies and producers. There's some good flash stuff, but it does tend to overindulge the awful too.
As you can probably imagine, a lot photograhers got seriously carried away with flash for their sites at first - there were, & still are, some naval gazing Fail montrosities out there that would take busy AD's ages to get to the actual work - the best one I ever saw borked on launch & then said something like "were sorry, this site needs Internet Explorer to be viewed"
I stipulated a no flash rule for my site & that the portfolios must be one click from the homepage.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Check this out for complex interactive web application with no flash: http://www.freeciv.net/
editor
hiraethified
No, really. It's a shit argument.
Most clients don't give a flying fuck abut the shape, look or brand of the computers being used by design monkeys: they've got more important things to worry about, like the design, the budget, the deadline and the overall work itself.
I've headed up big projects for some very large clients - Virgin Radio, Capital Radio, BBC, British Council, XFM and some large US companies - and not once has the fact that I've designed their sites exclusively on a PC been an issue.
Stupid argument is stupid argument.
Kanda
Diving wanker
editor
hiraethified
Sometimes you just gotta slap down the bullshit.I absolutely knew that was coming when I read the other posts earlier
If I thought - for a second - that my choice of OS was somehow stopping me getting work, I'd change platforms in an instant, but it's something that's never, ever come up.
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
You may want to hold off on accusing other people of talking crap when you're going to make claims like the following
1 "No Flash - thank christ, the sooner there is a move to the HTML5 standard the better"
I think you'd struggle to find anyone here opposed to the takeup of HTML5. What is undeniable though is that there is a huge range of web content that currently requires flash. I'd hope you accept it is entirely reasonable to criticise a device intended to be used for web browsing on the grounds that it cannot handle currennt content.
2 "No camera - This is a Rev 1 device, people need to look at previous rev 1 devices by Apple and see how limited they were on release to what they became a few revisions later"
You mean we should judge the device by what it may be in future releases, rather than what it is now? I don't think that's even vaguely logical. Any current device can be excused by saying "well a future one will be much better"
3. "No Multi-task - no doubt a software update will address this, Apple doesn't want sluggish performance on it's new device on launch - again, not a huge issue for me as I know it won't be forever."
I'm glad you know this to be the case. The moment it comes around, then this issue can rightly be put aside. Until then, it is a serious limitation on the usefullness of the device.
4. "Bezel around device - how the fuck else are you going to hold the damn thing? and not get in way of both the screen and touch sensors?" Considering the iphone does not have a bezel on left or right side, yet people still manage to use that, it would appear that your point is wrong.
When the iPhone first came out I looked at it and decided that as gorgeous as it was, glaring omissions such as 3G and SMS meant it was no use for me. When they released the 3, corrected these and other points, and reduced the price as well, then I happily bought one. In the future, I hope the iPad will be similarly improved. Until then though, all I can do is judge it on the current state, which is sadly limited.
Sometimes you just gotta slap down the bullshit.
If I thought - for a second - that my choice of OS was somehow stopping me getting work, I'd change platforms in an instant, but it's something that's never, ever come up.
Again you seem to be suspiciously quick to misread others posts and take them on a weirdly unbalanced angle. I talk about designers understandably being attached to products and brands with decent design values and you witter on about personal anecdotes about 'not getting work.' It's a ludicrous, tactical extreme misreading which betrays your bias. It seems fundamentally weird to attempt to deny that folks involved with design and advertising understandably value good design and appreciate brand values and loyalties.
With the greatest of respect Capital and Virgin Radio hardly count as hugely respected brand or marketing powerhouses. Had they or a more high profile advertiser wanted more brand leading work it's likely they'd have chosen a different approach, just as surely that not every design agency is the same
If you want to blow trumpets, I've worked with North, Fathom, and Kessels Kramer through to Sky, Reuters and lower profile ad agencies. At Getty Images I spent over 6 years marketing to creative professionals, building customer profiles and getting a feel for their favoured brands and values. I can only comment that logic, research and wide experience seems to be against your 'design doesn't matter to designers or their customers' approach.
If I thought - for a second - that my choice of OS was somehow stopping me getting work, I'd change platforms in an instant, but it's something that's never, ever come up.
Again you seem to be suspiciously quick to misread others posts and take them on a weirdly unbalanced angle. I talk about designers understandably being attached to products and brands with decent design values and you witter on about personal anecdotes about 'not getting work.' It's a ludicrous, tactical extreme misreading which betrays your bias. It seems fundamentally weird to attempt to deny that folks involved with design and advertising understandably value good design and appreciate brand values and loyalties.
With the greatest of respect Capital and Virgin Radio hardly count as hugely respected brand or marketing powerhouses. Had they or a more high profile advertiser wanted more brand leading work it's likely they'd have chosen a different approach, just as surely that not every design agency is the same
If you want to blow trumpets, I've worked with North, Fathom, and Kessels Kramer through to Sky, Reuters and lower profile ad agencies. At Getty Images I spent over 6 years marketing to creative professionals, building customer profiles and getting a feel for their favoured brands and values. I can only comment that logic, research and wide experience seems to be against your 'design doesn't matter to designers or their customers' approach.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
TBF to editor, I don't think the BBC give a shit that I work on a pc. I get tapped up by Nike about every six months (not that I ever say yes), don't think they give a shit either. All they give a shit about is whether our stuff sells.
I spent two years happily using a modern phone whilst people looked on and tutted about things like MMS, which they rarely ever used. Two years of their Symbian, or Windows Mobile, or whatever. They pulled out their styluses, peered at their tiny screens, poked around on numeric keypads. Ah yes, they said, if I go through these menu options, you'll see - "hang on a moment, it's here somewhere" - here's the GPS!
Two years later they bought a modern phone. It was never about MMS or cut and paste. Anyone who says that is in denial.
Two years later they bought a modern phone. It was never about MMS or cut and paste. Anyone who says that is in denial.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Of course, but that doesn't stop the design teams choosing macs just because they look nice. My boss does this with furniture.
I don't disagree with that fwiw. I do object to the fundamental misreading of my post and quoting it to argue something I didn't suggest.
Of course clients shouldn't care about which machine their work is created on. However to deny that designers/marketeers can become attached to brands and their values and that clients can be won over by similar seems weird to the point of contrariness.
Of course clients shouldn't care about which machine their work is created on. However to deny that designers/marketeers can become attached to brands and their values and that clients can be won over by similar seems weird to the point of contrariness.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
ewww!I don't like them, I think they're starting to look dated.I want a steampunked ipad.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
All that smooth shiny, radius edged, glossiness, it's so noughties.
But Steampunk is so 80s
TBH it's not just the outward appearance of Apple machines, it the brand which attracts as well. It's a company with design at its core, not an efficient organised producer like Dell or beancouter-filled all things to all men company like MS. For us, by us.
That may not be really that true in reality of course, but brand associations are a precious things.
TBH it's not just the outward appearance of Apple machines, it the brand which attracts as well. It's a company with design at its core, not an efficient organised producer like Dell or beancouter-filled all things to all men company like MS. For us, by us.
That may not be really that true in reality of course, but brand associations are a precious things.
editor
hiraethified
Funnily enough, I turned down the biggest contract I've ever been offered from Reuters, and they didn't seem to care much about what machine I was using. In fact, they never bothered to ask - just like every client I've ever worked for. Just about no one gives a fuck really, and rightly so.
I'm having trouble making sense of your point here. Are you suggesting that if a client has two equally attractive tenders for a design contract, they'll then ask what machines were used to create the work and then choose the Mac version over the PC one?
Christ you really are trying too hard to misread. I have said nothing of the sort.
It's such a remarkably unrealistic and artificially limited question to be almost useless fwiw. As a client I don't select agencies to pitch on a whim, devoid of other considerations or our impressions of them. Nor is it ever a simple shoot out between one piece of work and another - that would clearly be oversimplistic.
I note however, you still can't bring yourself to comment on the obvious logic that those involved in design and marketing tend to value good design and brand association, both qualities that Apple do well in. See Teuchter's comment about office chairs earlier.
It's this evasion and obvious misrepresentation which gets my goat.
It's such a remarkably unrealistic and artificially limited question to be almost useless fwiw. As a client I don't select agencies to pitch on a whim, devoid of other considerations or our impressions of them. Nor is it ever a simple shoot out between one piece of work and another - that would clearly be oversimplistic.
I note however, you still can't bring yourself to comment on the obvious logic that those involved in design and marketing tend to value good design and brand association, both qualities that Apple do well in. See Teuchter's comment about office chairs earlier.
It's this evasion and obvious misrepresentation which gets my goat.
stowpirate
skinflintish camera nut
What has any of this to do with the product. You are not seriously going to do any work on an iPad except maybe an email or two. To me it just looks like another product designed to point you at iTunes, App store etc... albeit an entertainment console with a few bells and whistles so a must have gadget for some albeit I think the iPhone does a better job.
Kanda
Diving wanker
Yes, I said that earlier in the thread.
stowpirate
skinflintish camera nut
editor
hiraethified
I'm 'associated with design' and I 'tend to value good design' too but I find your comment trite and meaningless.
I've never, ever, ever, known anyone not get work because of their choice of operating system. I've worked with major design agencies and no one's given a fuck. I've headed up a large US start up and no one gave a fuck there either, and I'm pretty sure they cared about good design and brand association too, so what is your point?
Are you saying that using Apple products give you an inherent advantage over the competition?
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