Any ideas for the Warrior Pub? (archive chat about the Warrior/Junction pub, Loughborough Junc)

[editor]

Here's how the Warrior/Junction looks today.

The sign says 'for rent' and not for sale - and, you guessed it - it's "1 & 2 bedroom luxury flats'

Gated entrances ahoy!

More area pics: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brixton-march-07.html

 

[ChrisSouth]

The sign says 'for rent' and not for sale - and, you guessed it - it's "1 & 2 bedroom luxury flats'

It's hardly likely to say 'shit flats' is it? Marketeers don't work like that.

 

[snowy_again]

And the Green Man was not going to be a pub, although the ground floor bit was going to have some sort of non-residential use (shop etc)?

Giles..

Isn't Lambeth Law Centre (or whatever its called i always forget) moving out of its currently squashed offices in the Eurolink Business centre and into what was the Green Man?

 

[editor]

It's hardly likely to say 'shit flats' is it? Marketeers don't work like that.

True, but it's becoming like America where even the crappiest deli claims to serve "gourmet" food.

 

[Giles]

Isn't Lambeth Law Centre (or whatever its called i always forget) moving out of its currently squashed offices in the Eurolink Business centre and into what was the Green Man?

That rings a bell - I seem to remember it was to be something "commercial" but a bit unusual - i.e. NOT a shop.

Giles..

 

[William of Walworth]

Is that the pub sign I can see in the pic, is it definitely opening as a pub?

<wondes what their beer policy will be >

 

[snowy_again]

Is that the pub sign I can see in the pic, is it definitely opening as a pub?

<wondes what their beer policy will be >

Seemed to be when I drove past it before. Have to laugh at the gated bit on the left hand side though...

 

[sun man]

Following a lot of helpful interest from locals it is proving difficult to get these ground floor units into use. I work for the owner of both premises and had good expectations of at least one of them going to a public house. The owner is not interested in running or managing the business but has offered both sites to the open market for over a year now. People have shown interest at times and we have tried to accomodate with donations to fit out costs etc. At the moment there is nothing solid on the table and I would be grateful for any suggestions that would help bring these prominant buildings back to life.

 

[Giles]

Following a lot of helpful interest from locals it is proving difficult to get these ground floor units into use. I work for the owner of both premises and had good expectations of at least one of them going to a public house. The owner is not interested in running or managing the business but has offered both sites to the open market for over a year now. People have shown interest at times and we have tried to accomodate with donations to fit out costs etc. At the moment there is nothing solid on the table and I would be grateful for any suggestions that would help bring these prominant buildings back to life.

How much would be renting out the "pub" unit of The Warrior for, then? And what length of lease would someone have to sign to rent it?

And also: what is the deal with the noise etc from a pub v. the interests of the people living immediately above?

Are the flats rented privately, or sold off, or leased to a H.A. or something? Would any of them (esp. the ones immediately above the pub) be available to rent as part of renting the pub, so that the "landlord" and maybe some staff could live upstairs, as in the traditional pub layout?

Giles..

 

[sun man]

How much would be renting out the "pub" unit of The Warrior for, then? And what length of lease would someone have to sign to rent it?

And also: what is the deal with the noise etc from a pub v. the interests of the people living immediately above?

Are the flats rented privately, or sold off, or leased to a H.A. or something? Would any of them (esp. the ones immediately above the pub) be available to rent as part of renting the pub, so that the "landlord" and maybe some staff could live upstairs, as in the traditional pub layout?

Giles..

Hi Giles,

Thank you for your reply. The agency valuation for the annual rent of the pub is £50k, this has been reduced to £40k with rent free period in light of the fitting out costs inside. There is cerainly a lot of work to do which may be detering people from starting up a new business there.

The length of the lease is negatiable between five to twenty five years. Noise from the pub could be an issue although the highest spec ceiling possible has been installed to mitigate any noise to the flats above. We have been informed that an entertainment license cannot be issued and only low level background noise would be acceptable (there would need to be a clause in the lease allowing the owner to take action if noise or other problems from the pub were affecting residents).

The flats above are leased to HA and shorthold tenants, it would be quite easy to integrate some of the flats into the business operation. The agent says that most people are put off when they hear the words " Coldharbour Lane" mentioned. I don't think the area is as bad as people say and there shoud be a reasonable market for a pub there. I have tried two different agents and neither has had many viewings. It has been considered to fit the building out and have a management company run the business although we have been warned that you need to have good experience in the pub industry before getting involved.

 

[editor]

We have been informed that an entertainment license cannot be issued and only low level background noise would be acceptable

Well that's fucked it then.

 

[Giles]

I really have doubts as to how these "pubs" that are left can be viable after the whole upstairs including the owner's accommodation have been made into flats.

The lack of "live in" accommodation, the noise restrictions, likely complaints if people were smoking and chatting outside the pub, etc make it very difficult to see how it could work as a pub or bar, really.

Giles..

 

[citydreams]

The agency valuation for the annual rent of the pub is £50k.

What's that, around 100 barrels a year? Or 3,600 gallons of beer just to break even!

Some recent adds:

• Acre Lane, Brixton, SW2
  Shop premises with A3 use.
  Currently trading but vacant shortly.
  1,000 sq.ft. with planning permission for extension at the rear for a further 500 sq.ft.
  Rent - £25,000 per annum exclusive.

• Acre Lane, Brixton, SW2
  A2 premises but client will consider other uses.
  1,000 sq.ft. Rent - £15,000 per annum exclusive.

http://hortonhammell.co.uk/hortonhammellpropertysolutionslimited/id2.html

 

[christonabike]

A grand a week in rent and you are not allowed an entertainment licence?

I would be grateful for any suggestions that would help bring these prominant buildings back to life.

only low level background noise would be acceptable

Here's one, renegotiate so an entertainment licence could be got

And, in the second quote; if it was going to be a pub/bar, how can low level background noise ever be achieved?

 

[editor]

If there's no entertainment licence, 50k rent and an insistence that noise has be kept to mouse like levels, there's no fucking chance that it's going to come back as a viable Brixton pub.

But then maybe that's what the developers wanted anyway.

 

[Giles]

As well as these two former pubs, I am aware of several others where this pattern has been followed: take old pub complete with several floors of run-down owners accommodation / staff accommodation / former B & B rooms upstairs, get permish to turn everything except the "pub" bit into flats.

Then see if you can find someone who will run it as a pub or bar.

Fail to do so.

Can anyone think of one of these where this has actually worked? I just can't see it making sense, even if the rent was cheapish. The noise and complaints issues surely make it unviable....

Giles..

 

[christonabike]

But then maybe that's what the developers wanted anyway.

You've lived around here a while, ain't yer

It'll be a ...................... COSTCUTTER!

 

[sun man]

As well as these two former pubs, I am aware of several others where this pattern has been followed: take old pub complete with several floors of run-down owners accommodation / staff accommodation / former B & B rooms upstairs, get permish to turn everything except the "pub" bit into flats.

Then see if you can find someone who will run it as a pub or bar.

Fail to do so.

Can anyone think of one of these where this has actually worked? I just can't see it making sense, even if the rent was cheapish. The noise and complaints issues surely make it unviable....

Giles..

The Pembury Tavern on Amhurst Road in Hackney was developed in this way and the ground floor remained vacant for about a year. It is now a fully functional pub although it is a little strange in there without any music. The advice re the entertainments license is that the Warrior building cannot be upgraded to the quality required, the issue is with the size of the windows rather than the ceiling.

I don't really see how the entertainments license is such an issue. Recorded music can still be played but live bands and dancing is out. Are there really huge problems associated with the outside of pubs and locals, I guess so but it would normally be controlled by a good manager.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

 

[editor]

I would have been well up for putting on cabaret/spoken word/film nights at the Warrior, or even band nights if it was sufficiently soundproofed.

It's a real shame - that area is totally starved of a community boozer.

 

[editor]

T....the issue is with the size of the windows rather than the ceiling.

Why not fit thick soundproofed curtains?

 

[bouncer_the_dog]

So no chance of a 24hr Trance Marathon then? (which was the last thing I went to at 'The Junction').

Turn it into a Starbucks..

 

[editor]

The Junction used to be fucking brilliant for drum'n'bass in the mid nineties.

 

[prunus]

The Junction used to be fucking brilliant for drum'n'bass in the mid nineties.

It's the only way I can describe where I live to some of my still-in-north-London friends: "It's near the old Junction, remember?" (cue misty-eyed (and brained) reminiscences).

 

[bouncer_the_dog]

I had one of the craziest nights out there ever before it shut. A friend of mine went there and someone was playing chess with a cat.

 

[Brainaddict]

I had one of the craziest nights out there ever before it shut. A friend of mine went there and someone was playing chess with a cat.

Who won?

 

[bouncer_the_dog]

TBH I don't know, but I'd rate the cats chances.

 

[Crispy]

Now I don't know whether that involves a large-scale chess board, with a piece missing so "let's use that cat. it can be a rook" or actually having a cat as an opponent. I don't know how much fun a cat would find either option, really.

 

[Brainaddict]

Now I don't know whether that involves a large-scale chess board, with a piece missing so "let's use that cat. it can be a rook" or actually having a cat as an opponent. I don't know how much fun a cat would find either option, really.

Who cares whether the cat likes it! On drugs it would be hilarious!!

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Eh the Junction!, i went to a monday night club there once (hardcore) with the very elusive 'oubliette sound system' back in the mid 90s. It comprised of lot's of different collections of speakers bound together with plastic in various corners of the pub. It was a bizarre din and then aphex twin turned up and played pool. The mad eyed ozzy bar mgr couldn't hack it and about 10 turn it all off and stuck some bad house on

as for now, it would take a brave vision to open a bar/restaurant there surely?

 

[Giles]

I remember going to a morning party called XLR8 which started life at The Junction.

Hmmmmm .... people doing lines of K off the tables, everyone absolutely tw*tted, good atmosphere though, even though the place was a dump.....

Giles..