Another Russian spy hit?

[Baronage-Phase]

Why would you believe Russia over everyone else? They're famed for this kind of attack, they've (Putin) said that dissidents who slag off the state will "kick the bucket", the scientists who worked on the agents have said they believe Russia's involved, it's virtually impossible for non-state actors to develop, store, and deliver, such a weapon, etc, etc, etc ...

I don't know who did this.
It is a very shoddy assassination attempt...and clearly whoever did it was not up to the standard of the Russian state. It could be anyone with links to Russia. Or it could be MI5 who the fuck knows for sure? Why use novochok at all? Its unstable. Could it have been used to point the finger directly at Russia? It's a bit too obvious isn't it? Maybe it's Russia playing a double blind who knows....

I'd love to feel confidence in the UK government always telling the truth but history shows that they will and do lie when it suits them.

I don't know who is responsible.... I doubt that there is clear evidence that Putin actually ordered this assassination. In the end we may never know who is telling the truth.

I see May gathering her allies. Hopefully she will just impose some sanctions on Russia. I hope she does not drag the world into a war over this shit like Tony Blair did with his lies about WMD

 

[Spymaster]

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Ok ok..
The Russians did it ... they are the only ones with novochok and Putin is entirely responsible.

Happy now?

 

[krtek a houby]

Could someone link me to where Craig Murray has been discredited? I can't find the relevant info and am curious as to why some have taken him seriously.

(not a conspiraloon, it's just that people are quoting him elsewhere as if he's some kind of great holder of the truth...)

 

[not-bono-ever]

I don't know who did this.
It is a very shoddy assassination attempt...and clearly whoever did it was not up to the standard of the Russian state. It could be anyone with links to Russia. Or it could be MI5 who the fuck knows for sure? Why use novochok at all? Its unstable. Could it have been used to point the finger directly at Russia? It's a bit too obvious isn't it? Maybe it's Russia playing a double blind who knows....

I'd love to feel confidence in the UK government always telling the truth but history shows that they will and do lie when it suits them.

I don't know who is responsible.... I doubt that there is clear evidence that Putin actually ordered this assassination. In the end we may never know who is telling the truth.

I see May gathering her allies. Hopefully she will just impose some sanctions on Russia. I hope she does not drag the world into a war over this shit like Tony Blair did with his lies about WMD

It is perfectly possible that both sides are being a little evasive with the truth on this. Politicians and all that

 

[Baronage-Phase]

“The European Union strongly condemns the attack that took place against Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury, UK on 4 March 2018, that also left a police officer seriously ill. The lives of many citizens were threatened by this reckless and illegal act. The European Union takes extremely seriously the UK Government’s assessment that it is highly likely that the Russian Federation is responsible.

“The European Union is shocked at the offensive use of any military-grade nerve agent, of a type developed by Russia, for the first time on European soil in over 70 years. The use of chemical weapons by anyone under any circumstances is completely unacceptable and constitutes a security threat to us all. Any such use is a clear violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, a breach of international law and undermines the rules-based international order. The EU welcomes the commitment of the UK to work closely with the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in supporting the investigation into the attack. The Union calls on Russia to address urgently the questions raised by the UK and the international community and to provide immediate, full and complete disclosure of its Novichok program to the OPCW.

“The European Union expresses its unqualified solidarity with the UK and its support, including for the UK’s efforts to bring those responsible for this crime to justice.

“The EU will remain closely focused on this issue and its implications.”

EU offers 'unqualified solidarity' to UK over Russia toxin case

 

[krtek a houby]

“The European Union strongly condemns the attack that took place against Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury, UK on 4 March 2018, that also left a police officer seriously ill. The lives of many citizens were threatened by this reckless and illegal act. The European Union takes extremely seriously the UK Government’s assessment that it is highly likely that the Russian Federation is responsible.

“The European Union is shocked at the offensive use of any military-grade nerve agent, of a type developed by Russia, for the first time on European soil in over 70 years. The use of chemical weapons by anyone under any circumstances is completely unacceptable and constitutes a security threat to us all. Any such use is a clear violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, a breach of international law and undermines the rules-based international order. The EU welcomes the commitment of the UK to work closely with the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in supporting the investigation into the attack. The Union calls on Russia to address urgently the questions raised by the UK and the international community and to provide immediate, full and complete disclosure of its Novichok program to the OPCW.

“The European Union expresses its unqualified solidarity with the UK and its support, including for the UK’s efforts to bring those responsible for this crime to justice.

“The EU will remain closely focused on this issue and its implications.”

EU offers 'unqualified solidarity' to UK over Russia toxin case

Wait... is it some kind of dastardly plan to keep the UK in the EU?

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

Wait... is it some kind of dastardly plan to keep the UK in the EU?

That's what the conspiraloons on the Daily Fail believe...

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

reminds me of this: Russian troll struggling to be more bigoted than typical internet user

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Wait... is it some kind of dastardly plan to keep the UK in the EU?

It may be that the UK will be so grateful to the EU for their support in this troublesome time, that the government will ask the people to vote again, in the hopes that the people see how supportive the EU are in their time of need....and well...being part of something bigger is better when facing the Russian bear.

 

[William of Walworth]

It is perfectly possible that both sides are being a little evasive with the truth on this. Politicians and all that

Yes, this. Given what's known**, it's surely much more logical to assume that both sides are dissembling.

**and using the "why is this lying bastard lying to me?" rule

Better that, than to think that because the UK Government have a long track record of secrecy/dissembling/lying, then therefore we shouldn't also accept that the Russian authorities are just as distrustworthy.

If you're going to distrust 'the authorities', don't be bloody selective about it.

(Plus all CTers are loonbats anyway )

 

[Dogsauce]

Anyway, the elephant in the room: What are the chances of the two main victims surviving this and being able to provide an account of what did/might have happened? I've not seen any media speculation on this, but I suspect their odds aren't great. What does this stuff do to people? I've heard major organ damage mentioned, is it likely to lead to severe brain damage etc. and render them useless as witnesses?

 

[ddraig]

please can i have a link that shows how Craig Murray is a shitehawk and how they've been discredited? people posting his stuff as gospel
thanks

 

[not-bono-ever]

was that the 2hats linked twitter feed where he crashed and burned when scientists took his stuff to task ?

 

[ddraig]

was that the 2hats linked twitter feed where he crashed and burned when scientists took his stuff to task ?

did see that, the one posted on CM's own site? will try that at first, ta

 

[Spymaster]

please can i have a link that shows how Craig Murray is a shitehawk and how they've been discredited? people posting his stuff as gospel
thanks

This is him making a cunt of himself in defence:

Bothered By Midgies - Craig Murray

 

[ddraig]

This is him making a cunt of himself in defence:

Bothered By Midgies - Craig Murray

ta

 

[Supine]

He's under attack!

Massive Attack on This Blog - Craig Murray

 

[DexterTCN]

please can i have a link that shows how Craig Murray is a shitehawk and how they've been discredited? people posting his stuff as gospel
thanks

He's not been discredited, they're are varying opinions.

 

[Spymaster]

He's not been discredited, they're are varying opinions.

 

[butchersapron]

 

[ddraig]

He's not been discredited, they're are varying opinions.

think i'll take the opinions of posters I respect with track records and evidenced posts thanks

 

[DexterTCN]

think i'll take the opinions of posters I respect with track records and evidenced posts thanks

No problem. You stick with the 'antisemitic conspiracy theorist loon' opinion.

It does go with the track records though, to be fair.

 

[ddraig]

No problem. You stick with the 'antisemitic conspiracy theorist loon' opinion.

It does go with the track records though, to be fair.

wtf!?
I saw people posting elsewhere using CM as some kind of authority and remembered that they'd been discredited on this thread so asked for some evidence to give perspective/balance to the person who i knew posting elsewhere, that's it

 

[rioted]

think i'll take the opinions of posters I respect with track records and evidenced posts thanks

Evidenced posts are in short order though. On both sides. But one side is rushing to conclusions.

 

[Corax]

I don't see how this is to Russia's benefit, especially ahead of the WC. The state it benefits most, perhaps, is the USA.

Puncher & Williams, OTOH, both of who the UK authorities deemed 'suicides' look as Russian as wrestling a bear with your shirt off.

ETA: I've no idea who Murray is, and the thing I quoted is the only thing of his I've read. I'll deliberately refrain from diving down that or any other rabbit hole now.

 

[DexterTCN]

wtf!?
I saw people posting elsewhere using CM as some kind of authority and remembered that they'd been discredited on this thread so asked for some evidence to give perspective/balance to the person who i knew posting elsewhere, that's it

Why don't you just go and read his stuff yourself? How can you get perspective without doing that?

 

[Corax]

I think it is generally accepted in intelligence circles that the ability of the British to operate in Russia was far more restricted and hampered than that of the Russian mission in the UK, hence greater loss to the Russians in that respect.

The Russians still have the likes of Abrahamovich at the top tables too. Who isn't a 'spy' at all. Nope.

 

[Spymaster]

I don't see how this is to Russia's benefit, especially ahead of the WC.

Have you not read this thread, Cracksie?

 

[Corax]

Seems it was invented in 1988 by Dr James Henry Salisbury - so nothing to do with the town in England. But, an attack with frozen Salisbury Steak Dinners might be as good a way to take out spies as nerve gas.

I think Roald Dahl wrote a short story about that.