Angel pub on Coldharbour Lane becomes arty community space run by Brick Box

[ViolentPanda]

Cooltan wasn't my thing, stuff at the Villaage isn't either. I used to love nights at the Angel years ago (spotless loos). What is getting me going at the moment is the fear that I may have to leave. Even my local councillor has said to my face that there's too much social housing in Brixton. Seeing what is happening around me is frightening. A lot of what's being presented as the way forward for Brixton doesn't include me, or any members of my household, my neighbours.

And of coure you can bet that what's meant by "too much social housing in Brixton" isn't that, per se, there's an imbalance that needs to be addressed, but that volume social housing may be too coarse for the refined palates of those the councillor would like to attract to the area. Labour councillor by any chance, Mrs M?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Looks interesting and varied.

I have to say that "OpenDoors has collected words written by local residents about the area. The words have been passed onto artists who will be exhibiting original art directly inspired by the words" finds me equally peeved and intrigued, if only to find out whether what they've done is as utterly patronising and disempowering as it sounds.

 

[Gramsci]

Makes me think of the Heygate estate - I wonder how many people will be moved back into the new development (or want to move again) and how much will be new housing and what will be affordable (and affordable in that area is not affordable at all - expensive location!!)

read this a while back:

The Heygate site will be worth a fortune when Lend Lease, Southwark's chosen developer, has cleared out the detritus of the 1970s. The 1,260 council homes will be replaced by 3,300 dwellings, mostly for private sale but with 25% set aside for "affordable" housing. When the Elephant has its new shopping centre and more user-friendly road system, this will be a highly desirable place to live. Rather too desirable, critics of the regeneration scheme argue, for the council tenants who used to live here.
Southwark accepts the regeneration project has been problematic. "It hasn't been plain sailing," says councillor Fiona Colley, cabinet member for regeneration. "There should have been new homes built for residents before they moved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/mar/04/death-housing-ideal

Im afraid this is what the Council mean when they say the housing in Brixton needs rebalancing.

 

[Gramsci]

And of coure you can bet that what's meant by "too much social housing in Brixton" isn't that, per se, there's an imbalance that needs to be addressed, but that volume social housing may be too coarse for the refined palates of those the councillor would like to attract to the area. Labour councillor by any chance, Mrs M?

I have had the same comments. I said there is shortage of affordable housing in London. He said that more could be built in other parts of Lambeth as there was to much in Brixton. I said the Council , realistically, does not have the land to do that. No answer to that.

I find some of my conversations with members of the Labour party slightly surreal. I really should not have to state what should be obvious to a member of the Labour party. And I try to use as reasonable language as possible.

 

[Gramsci]

Not just twee - almost L Ron Hubbard meets Jane Austen

Oh CH1 that made me laugh.

You do have a way with words.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I have had the same comments. I said there is shortage of affordable housing in London. He said that more could be built in other parts of Lambeth as there was to much in Brixton. I said the Council , realistically, does not have the land to do that. No answer to that.

Unsurprising - that they had no answer, that is.
And there isn't "too much" in Brixton by any rational gauge of quantity, in fact there's far less than necessary.
It's also interesting to note that a councillor would make a statement, ie ("more could be built in other parts..." that is so baldly exclusionary of the local poor. Interesting but typical of the attitudes of the gang of party lickspittles and ideologically-malformed lackwits that supposedly represent us on the council.

I find some of my conversations with members of the Labour party slightly surreal. I really should not have to state what should be obvious to a member of the Labour party. And I try to use as reasonable language as possible.

it's the same Blair-era surreality (which, to be fair started during Kinnock's leadership) that caused more than quarter of a million party members (many of them old-school activists) to leave the party between '97 and '01. Accommodationism for capitalism and table scraps for the electorate, with these jokers seeing themselves as facilitators for the "money talks" generation. It may be politics, but it's not a politics I want any part of perpetuating.
Destruction, on the other hand...

 

[Mrs Magpie]

And of coure you can bet that what's meant by "too much social housing in Brixton" isn't that, per se, there's an imbalance that needs to be addressed, but that volume social housing may be too coarse for the refined palates of those the councillor would like to attract to the area. Labour councillor by any chance, Mrs M?

Donatus Anyanwu. Labour councillor for probably a decade by now.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Donatus Anyanwu. Labour councillor for probably a decade by now.

Blair-era, like most of them. What gets me is the complacency and blatantness of saying such a thing, as if he knows that he/his successor will get voted back in whatever they do. It's like these no-marks don't even try anymore, beyond the occasional surgery.

 

[magneze]

I have to say that "OpenDoors has collected words written by local residents about the area. The words have been passed onto artists who will be exhibiting original art directly inspired by the words" finds me equally peeved and intrigued, if only to find out whether what they've done is as utterly patronising and disempowering as it sounds.

Only one way to find out eh?

 

[boohoo]

I have to say that "OpenDoors has collected words written by local residents about the area. The words have been passed onto artists who will be exhibiting original art directly inspired by the words" finds me equally peeved and intrigued, if only to find out whether what they've done is as utterly patronising and disempowering as it sounds.

Why is it patronising and disempowering?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why is it patronising and disempowering?

Do you mean "why does it sound patronising and disempowering?"
That is, after all, what I actually wrote, and I don't like formulating answers to things I haven't actually said.

If that is what you meant, then it sounds patronising and disempowering to me because it renders the locals as passive sources of material, unable to create "original art" from their own utterances. It gives them no agency to do so, either

 

[boohoo]

Do you mean "why does it sound patronising and disempowering?"
That is, after all, what I actually wrote, and I don't like formulating answers to things I haven't actually said.

If that is what you meant, then it sounds patronising and disempowering to me because it renders the locals as passive sources of material, unable to create "original art" from their own utterances. It gives them no agency to do so, either

(i'm breastfeeding a baby and typing so things do not always come out right!!! )

I think the artists are local too. A further project would be to get locals to do art around the ideas of their area.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I think the artists are local too. A further project would be to get locals to do art around the ideas of their area.

Doing something similar but it's getting the funding. I've been plugging away for ages.

 

[ViolentPanda]

(i'm breastfeeding a baby and typing so things do not always come out right!!! )

I've seen how that works, and understand (as much as we "people with penises" can w/r/t multi-tasking ).

I think the artists are local too. A further project would be to get locals to do art around the ideas of their area.

See, the bumf doesn't mention that, or that the artists are local (if indeed they are). If it had, I wouldn't have commented as I did in the first place.

 

[boohoo]

Doing something similar but it's getting the funding. I've been plugging away for ages.

Have you seen this bit of funding about? (mentioned in another thread)

http://www.coldharbourcommunityfirst.org.uk/?page_id=35&fb_source=message

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Thanks boohoo, I've just asked my grant application co-wotsit if we've got that one down (we are just working our way through a list).

 

[boohoo]

Thanks boohoo, I've just asked my grant application co-wotsit if we've got that one down (we are just working our way through a list).

I think applications for it are due this week! I spotted it on twitter.

 

[CH1]

"more could be built in other parts..."

When I was on the council 1994-8 I represented Thornton Ward (the posh old two seater Thornton Ward). Those in need of council housing always spurned being rehoused in Brixton - wanted Poynders Gardens, Weir Estate, Oaklands Estate, but definitely NOT Brixton. Too rough, they said.
Donatus lives in Streatham South - and probably also thinks Brixton is too rough, despite having had a sinecure representing us for the last 10 years.
I shall never forget when I asked him (some years later - after I had ceased to be a (LD) councillor) - "Donatus, why is the whole of Coldharbour Lane being re-tarmacked, but the pavement, which hasn't been done for 20 years is being left in a dangerous condition?"
He replied tartly: "Because the Liberals have spent all the money in Streatham".

A: As a resident of Streaham himself I guess he was being deliberately provocative, as Nigerians quite often are.
B: The correct answer apparently was - because TFL paid for the tarmacking, but Lambeth would have had to pay for the pavement.
Why couldn't he just have said B instead of being such an A**hole"?

P.S. Donatus was Executive Member for Housing 2002-2004 (maybe not all the time) and having cocked that up moved on to Exec Member for Social Services - where he implemented big cuts particularly on the disability sector-feat Mental Health+Learning Difficulties.

Aside: I was being driven to Enugu Airport in 2007 when I saw a classic example of what we in Lambeth call "Mental Health". A large built young man was running towards us on the motorway stark naked. My host - currently an orthopaedic surgeon in Warwick - asked "I bet you've not seen one as big as that before?" referring to the unfortunate man's privates. Such is compassion for the disabled and afflicted in Africa. This attitude DOES also apply to Ghana where I have visited about 12 times - before someone picks me up for generalised racism! It's cultural.

BTW - in my experience the difference between Nigeria & Ghana is that Ghanaians have a high degree of empathy. "Sad, pathetic - nobody does anything. Let us pray to God etc."
Nigerians on the other hand take a more robust Victorian values approach - "These are useless people - indigent poor and criminals. Their family has rejected them!" That is assuming they have not become the playthings of Pentecostal Pastors accusing them of being witches, and getting them stoned (literally - not with herbal remedies) in the interests of "casting out demons".

Talking of which I see the Celestial Church of Christ are now ensconced in the Karibu Centre on Sunday afternoons. Took a peep at the altar through the door yesterday. They had an impressive array of altar candles (as prescribed in Exod.25:31-37; Heb.9:2 Rev. 1:12; 4:5 apparently). Looked a bit like the voodoo altars in the Horniman to me! Creepy huh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

When I was on the council 1994-8 I represented Thornton Ward (the posh old two seater Thornton Ward). Those in need of council housing always spurned being rehoused in Brixton - wanted Poynders Gardens, Weir Estate, Oaklands Estate, but definitely NOT Brixton. Too rough, they said.

I knew a couple who lived on Thornton Gardens, and they were the same.

Donatus lives in Streatham South - and probably also thinks Brixton is too rough, despite having had a sinecure representing us for the last 10 years.
I shall never forget when I asked him (some years later - after I had ceased to be a (LD) councillor) - "Donatus, why is the whole of Coldharbour Lane being re-tarmacked, but the pavement, which hasn't been done for 20 years is being left in a dangerous condition?"
He replied tartly: "Because the Liberals have spent all the money in Streatham".

A: As a resident of Streaham himself I guess he was being deliberately provocative, as Nigerians quite often are.
B: The correct answer apparently was - because TFL paid for the tarmacking, but Lambeth would have had to pay for the pavement.
Why couldn't he just have said B instead of being such an A**hole"?

The simple answer being "it's so much easier to make everything about someone else's cock-ups, rather than your own inadequacies", and that's what a "nu Labour"-influenced Labour administration in Lambeth is: A machine or mill for passing off responsibility and/or stealing credit. Mr. Anyanwu is merely acting in his own best interests. Afterall, today Chuka Ummanna, tomorrow, who knows?

P.S. Donatus was Executive Member for Housing 2002-2004 (maybe not all the time) and having cocked that up moved on to Exec Member for Social Services - where he implemented big cuts particularly on the disability sector-feat Mental Health+Learning Difficulties.

Aside: I was being driven to Enugu Airport in 2007 when I saw a classic example of what we in Lambeth call "Mental Health". A large built young man was running towards us on the motorway stark naked. My host - currently an orthopaedic surgeon in Warwick - asked "I bet you've not seen one as big as that before?" referring to the unfortunate man's privates. Such is compassion for the disabled and afflicted in Africa. This attitude DOES also apply to Ghana where I have visited about 12 times - before someone picks me up for generalised racism! It's cultural.

BTW - in my experience the difference between Nigeria & Ghana is that Ghanaians have a high degree of empathy. "Sad, pathetic - nobody does anything. Let us pray to God etc."
Nigerians on the other hand take a more robust Victorian values approach - "These are useless people - indigent poor and criminals. Their family has rejected them!" That is assuming they have not become the playthings of Pentecostal Pastors accusing them of being witches, and getting them stoned (literally - not with herbal remedies) in the interests of "casting out demons".

Talking of which I see the Celestial Church of Christ are now ensconced in the Karibu Centre on Sunday afternoons. Took a peep at the altar through the door yesterday. They had an impressive array of altar candles (as prescribed in Exod.25:31-37; Heb.9:2 Rev. 1:12; 4:5 apparently). Looked a bit like the voodoo altars in the Horniman to me! Creepy huh?
View attachment 19993

Not so much creepy, as informative, as far as I'm concerned. I've always enjoyed the irony of the more demonstrative church sects drawing a lot of their imagery and rhetorical style from the same sources as some of the religious practices they'd love to ban.

 

[snowy_again]

What does that actually mean? Don't they operate a regular commercial restaurant business in the Villaaage?

In the time you spent typing that you could have easily found out.

 

[editor]

In the time you spent typing that you could have easily found out.

In the time it took to type that out, you could have shared the information with everyone here - that's kind of how threads on bulletin boards work.

I've now looked it up wikipediaand got this biz-speak.

Community Interest Company (CIC) is a business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally reinvested for that purpose in the business or in the community, rather than being driven by the need to maximise profit for shareholders and owners. CICs tackle a wide range of social and environmental issues and operate in all parts of the economy. By using business solutions to achieve public good, it is believed that social enterprises have a distinct and valuable role to play in helping create a strong, sustainable and socially inclusive economy.

 

[snowy_again]

Indeed I could, but sometimes it might be pleasant for you to climb out of your entrenched position.

"a business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally reinvested for that purpose in the business or in the community,"

This tells you exactly what you needed to know when you made a statement about them being something along the lines of a profit making organisation in 'the village'. All of which you seem to completely hate as they don't address your personal view as to what should go on in there...

Their legal status has been raised and clarified before in this thread.

 

[CH1]

Afterall, today Chuka Ummanna, tomorrow, who knows?

Can't let you cast aspersions on Chuka (not that I would vote for him, but..)
1. Donatus is an Igbo and a Nigerian-trained Roman Catholic. Mindset v. illiberal - no birth control, abortion, gays etc. and I've already explained about the disabled bit. You couldn't really think of a worse candidate to be in charge of Social Services cuts!
2. Chuka hails from the Church of England - St Leonards Parish where they have a nice lady vicar. Nigerian brought-up Anglicans would never countenance that! Chuka may have an Igbo father or grandfather, but Chuka himself is living in 21st century Britain. And he's learning on the job. He came out with a prepared speech the other day in "Business Questions" at HP Sauce and they slapped him down good and proper. He will learn that speaking extempore is his greatest strength. He may be New Labour - but his heart is in the right place, IMHO.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Can't let you cast aspersions on Chuka (not that I would vote for him, but..)
1. Donatus is an Igbo and a Nigerian-trained Roman Catholic. Mindset v. illiberal - no birth control, abortion, gays etc. and I've already explained about the disabled bit. You couldn't really think of a worse candidate to be in charge of Social Services cuts!
2. Chuka hails from the Church of England - St Leonards Parish where they have a nice lady vicar. Nigerian brought-up Anglicans would never countenance that! Chuka may have an Igbo father or grandfather, but Chuka himself is living in 21st century Britain. And he's learning on the job. He came out with a prepared speech the other day in "Business Questions" at HP Sauce and they slapped him down good and proper. He will learn that speaking extempore is his greatest strength. He may be New Labour - but his heart is in the right place, IMHO.

My point was and is that I'm sure the noble Donatus is ambitious, and sees that where Chuka has trodden, he, an upright fellow with G-d on his side, can follow. No aspersions cast or intended to be cast on Streatham's MP.

 

[soupdragon]

It is in the Draft SPD for the Brixton Masterplan that there needs to be a "rebalancing" of affordable and private housing as well.

I am getting concerned that you might be right Mrs Magpie.

"The loss of social-rented homes in regeneration or redevelopment schemes can be significant and tends to be justified by claims of the development of ‘mixed and balanced communities’. For example, 1,900 homes of the Ferrier Estate in Greenwich are to be demolished and replaced by 4,000 new homes. Only 1,480 of the new homes are to be affordable and only half of the affordable ones are to be social-rented – resulting in a loss of 1,160 social-rented homes."

Worth a read: http://www.londontenants.org/publications/other/theafordablehousingconf.pdf

 

[Gramsci]

"The loss of social-rented homes in regeneration or redevelopment schemes can be significant and tends to be justified by claims of the development of ‘mixed and balanced communities’. For example, 1,900 homes of the Ferrier Estate in Greenwich are to be demolished and replaced by 4,000 new homes. Only 1,480 of the new homes are to be affordable and only half of the affordable ones are to be social-rented – resulting in a loss of 1,160 social-rented homes."

Worth a read: http://www.londontenants.org/publications/other/theafordablehousingconf.pdf

On a smaller scale this is what happened on the Guinness Trust Estate.

 

[lighterthief]

"The loss of social-rented homes in regeneration or redevelopment schemes can be significant and tends to be justified by claims of the development of ‘mixed and balanced communities’. For example, 1,900 homes of the Ferrier Estate in Greenwich are to be demolished and replaced by 4,000 new homes. Only 1,480 of the new homes are to be affordable and only half of the affordable ones are to be social-rented – resulting in a loss of 1,160 social-rented homes."

Worth a read: http://www.londontenants.org/publications/other/theafordablehousingconf.pdf

What happens to tenants who are decanted when their flat was demolished if there isn't enough new housing for them? Serious question.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

What is this place, can I pop by and have a drink or is it only open for certain exhibitions and events? Can someone clarify, can't work out from the website.

 

[Gramsci]

What happens to tenants who are decanted when their flat was demolished if there isn't enough new housing for them? Serious question.

They get rehoused within the existing stock. This means end result is that the Council has less overall social housing in long term.

In the case of Guiness Trust for example GT let out flats to people on insecure tenancies. Which means they have, in GTs opinion, no right to rehousing.

It is usually done as gradual process of persuading people to leave. Social housing is usually let on basis that you have right to housing but not right to stay in building you are in.

 

[editor]

What is this place, can I pop by and have a drink or is it only open for certain exhibitions and events? Can someone clarify, can't work out from the website.

It won't be anything like a pub, more's the pity, so you won't be able to pop in for a drink any night of the week and chat to locals.

Judging by the two events thus far, it will be £5 to get in for an evening event, but I don't know much else because they don't seem particularly interested in informing local residents about what their plans are.