Anelka's quenelle

[frogwoman]

Well, only "democratically-elected" insofar as his party and others formed a coalition, and his party had the biggest wedge of ministerial pie. One thing that Fat Benny wasn't, was "democratically-elected" directly, by a majority of the people of Israel.

And even if he was, does that actually mean anything? We don't live in a democracy ffs, and Thatcher was also democratically elected but I don't see people arguing that its acceptable to attack some random church of England members in Nigeria or something because of that.

 

[frogwoman]

Anyway, anelka is at it again it seems, saying that dieudonne is a brother and the only reason he was punished is because Vall's wife is Jewish

 

[ViolentPanda]

And even if he was, does that actually mean anything?

Not in terms of parliamentary democracy. After all, most parliamentary democracies, even the most open ones, are still about electing a representative, with very little control over what that representative then says or does during their incumbency.

We don't live in a democracy ffs, and Thatcher was also democratically elected but I don't see people arguing that its acceptable to attack some random church of England members in Nigeria or something because of that.

As I've said ad nauseam on here (and elsewhere) before, what we have is a pseudo-democracy. A simulacrum that mimics some democratic ideals, but keeps power within the ambit of only a small circle, rather than with "the people".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anyway, anelka is at it again it seems, saying that dieudonne is a brother and the only reason he was punished is because Vall's wife is Jewish

What a dick he is.

 

[frogwoman]

Not in terms of parliamentary democracy. After all, most parliamentary democracies, even the most open ones, are still about electing a representative, with very little control over what that representative then says or does during their incumbency.



As I've said ad nauseam on here (and elsewhere) before, what we have is a pseudo-democracy. A simulacrum that mimics some democratic ideals, but keeps power within the ambit of only a small circle, rather than with "the people".

Well yeah so why do you get people bringing up the Israeli government every time something like this happens, as if the people who dieudonne's disgusting rhetoric is gonna effect are related to what Bibi is doing? And people take it seriously, its like people calling someone a paki and then some chin stroker turning round when they complained and saying 'well sharia law is very bad you know, people can get their hands cut off and I wouldn't be allowed to build a church' I mean really? How hard it to have some basic empathy ffs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well yeah so why do you get people bringing up the Israeli government every time something like this happens, as if the people who dieudonne's disgusting rhetoric is gonna effect are related to what Bibi is doing? And people take it seriously, its like people calling someone a paki and then some chin stroker turning round when they complained and saying 'well sharia law is very bad you know, people can get their hands cut off and I wouldn't be allowed to build a church' I mean really? How hard it to have some basic empathy ffs.

The problem has several causes, but IMO the predominant issue is that people tend to simplify their thinking so that somewhere like Pakistan is "Muslamic", when it's actually an Islamic republic where there's a spectrum of observance to Islam that ranges from "sporadic and only when the neighbours are watching", to "full-on piety", and a Pakistani politician or religious figure is taken as speaking for all Pakistanis; somewhere like Israel is seen as "Jewish", whereas what it is, is a gerrymandered site predominantly-occupied (currently) by Jews, and Fat Benny is seen as a spokesperson for those Jews, even though Jewish observance is across as varied a spectrum as Islam is in Pakistan, and even though Fat Benny barely speaks for his own party, let alone for World Jewry.
If you think like that, it makes life easier for the individual (none of those pesky nuances to pay attention to!), but in terms of enabling the realities to be debated, it doesn't help at all. it also (fortunately) makes it VERY obvious, when someone couches their arguments in such terms, that they're almost certainly deliberately avoiding the nuances, because the nuances would render their arguments unusable and show them up as the prejudiced crap that they are. Empathy would get in the way of those prejudices.

 

[Humberto]

And even if he was, does that actually mean anything? We don't live in a democracy ffs, and Thatcher was also democratically elected but I don't see people arguing that its acceptable to attack some random church of England members in Nigeria or something because of that.

A lot of ordinary Israelis are racist against Arabs. Its a poison which is reflected in Israel's political leadership to some extent.

 

[frogwoman]

A lot of ordinary Israelis are racist against Arabs. Its a poison which is reflected in its political leadership to some extent.

Yeah, I know. It doesn't mean that what these guys are doing is acceptable.

 

[Humberto]

Yeah, I know. It doesn't mean that what these guys are doing is acceptable.

I agree. Its awful blatant anti-semitism.

 

[frogwoman]

I agree. Its awful blatant anti-semitism.

Yep

Many years ago I used to be quite a Zionist, I used to be worried about the threat of Muslim immigration to the UK and go round thinking all sorts of delusional shit about Israel not being that bad, islamist propaganda, Palestinians faking bombing raids to sell dvds on markets lol, you know what actually made me realize that this Muslim hating shit was actually bullshit, it was the 7/7 bombings and suddenly all these dickheads were on the news and doing opinion pieces talking about problems with the Muslim culture, and I felt so fucking sorry for the vast majority of Muslim people who obviously were not like that at all, that I knew from various things, that I saw in my town etc, and I felt completely ashamed of a lot of the stuff I had thought up to that point. It's sad how some people don't use any common sense at all.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I feel old when someone describes pre-7/7 as many years ago

 

[DotCommunist]

it was near a decade ago

 

[frogwoman]

I feel old when someone describes pre-7/7 as many years ago

Sorry

 

[frogwoman]

I feel old when someone describes pre-7/7 as many years ago

Doesn't seem that long ago does it? I remember it like it was yesterday.

 

[DotCommunist]

hey spanky, a man would like a word:

 

[butchersapron]

parker pen cunt

 

[DotCommunist]

mind you when my ma's ex went with Saga for his car insurance I mocked him by doing Thora Hird on a stairlift impressions. But he sat me down and showed exactly how much he was saving as compared to the likes of me getting car insurance elsewhere. I wasn't laughing then was I.

 

[chilango]

mind you when my ma's ex went with Saga for his car insurance I mocked him by doing Thora Hird on a stairlift impressions. But he sat me down and showed exactly how much he was saving as compared to the likes of me getting car insurance elsewhere. I wasn't laughing then was I.

Yeah but Thora Hird was a flag bearer for the British Movement in the early 1980s*.

* Yeah, I know it's not true, but my mate Danny said it was, and I want to believe.

 

[Idris2002]

I said to the French girl I work with that the earliest hit record I remember is Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall".

She just looked up at me, and said, "wow, you're really old".

 

[Wilf]

parker pen cunt

Fuck off, I'm holding out for the full carriage clock.

 

[Helen Daniels]

Yep

Many years ago I used to be quite a Zionist, I used to be worried about the threat of Muslim immigration to the UK and go round thinking all sorts of delusional shit about Israel not being that bad, islamist propaganda, Palestinians faking bombing raids to sell dvds on markets lol, you know what actually made me realize that this Muslim hating shit was actually bullshit, it was the 7/7 bombings and suddenly all these dickheads were on the news and doing opinion pieces talking about problems with the Muslim culture, and I felt so fucking sorry for the vast majority of Muslim people who obviously were not like that at all, that I knew from various things, that I saw in my town etc, and I felt completely ashamed of a lot of the stuff I had thought up to that point. It's sad how some people don't use any common sense at all.

But that's the same as how BNP make you worried about British culture. There is always that aspect under the surface and it's much better to recognise it than try to act like it doesn't exist and when it rears it's ugly head that it's some aberration. It's pointless to feel ashamed of your reaction to anything, that's self indulgent. We can only make our opinions based on the information that we are given, not everyone has access to information though, it takes a lot of willpower to become self educated and even if you have the money to pay someone to teach you then you still give them a ridiculous amount of trust
I think the internet has made people stupider, wikipedia means that people don't even have to look things up, they just go on wiki and quote the information on there as if it's their own opinion.

Muslim culture has lots of problems, like any culture, it's not useful to look at it from the outside and give your amazing opinion based on 'facts', but it's also not useful to pretend that viewed from outside Islam is a bit of a horrorshow. Maybe not as bad as Catholicism, but apples and pears

 

[frogwoman]

But that's the same as how BNP make you worried about British culture. There is always that aspect under the surface and it's much better to recognise it than try to act like it doesn't exist and when it rears it's ugly head that it's some aberration. It's pointless to feel ashamed of your reaction to anything, that's self indulgent. We can only make our opinions based on the information that we are given, not everyone has access to information though, it takes a lot of willpower to become self educated and even if you have the money to pay someone to teach you then you still give them a ridiculous amount of trust
I think the internet has made people stupider, wikipedia means that people don't even have to look things up, they just go on wiki and quote the information on there as if it's their own opinion.

Muslim culture has lots of problems, like any culture, it's not useful to look at it from the outside and give your amazing opinion based on 'facts', but it's also not useful to pretend that viewed from outside Islam is a bit of a horrorshow. Maybe not as bad as Catholicism, but apples and pears

Eh? The BNP don't make me worried about 'British culture'

 

[Pickman's model]

But that's the same as how BNP make you worried about British culture.

there is other british culture

 

[andysays]

...but it's also not useful to pretend that viewed from outside Islam is a bit of a horrorshow. Maybe not as bad as Catholicism, but apples and pears

I think you may be getting your fruit-based idioms confused here.

Apples and pears is cockney rhyming slang for stairs; the expression which you seem to be grasping for is apples and oranges, which refers to comparisons between two things that aren't really comparable

 

[barney_pig]

there is other british culture

Ill fitting suits

 

[Helen Daniels]

Eh? The BNP don't make me worried about 'British culture'

BNP and all of that lark are a part of British culture though, they're probably part of how people see Britain more than any other fringe political group. Same with extreme Muslims.

I just meant that these sort of violent groups aren't fair representations of course, but it is what people see

 

[butchersapron]

Sagbo gets 15 grand fine.

Why wasn't Nasri charged? Not in epl at time?

 

[butchersapron]

Dieudonne was due to perform at a meeting set up by Belgian MP Laurent Louis last sunday. Laurent Louis was expelled from his party for saying in parliament that the Holocaust was set up and financed by the pioneers of Zionism. whilst performing the Quenelle. of course, Alain Soral and Kemi Seba were also on the bill.

 

[butchersapron]

Was looking for the dieudonnist reaction to recent events - seems things not all well in the camp:

Dieudonne M'bala M'bala: Friends turn on France's black, anti-Semitic comedian for forming political party with far-right activist

Civil war has broken out in the bizarre world of Dieudonné, the black, anti-Semitic comedian at the centre of the “Nazi” salute row surrounding the footballer Nicolas Anelka a year ago.

Several black supporters of Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, including former bodyguards, have turned against him, complaining of his increasingly close connections with white, allegedly racist, groups in France and what they claim is his supposed obsession with personal enrichment. Their disillusionment is based partly on Dieudonné’s alliance with Alain Soral, an essayist and activist who has himself been accused of anti-Semitism.

Mr Soral, 56, is a champion of traditional family values and an overtly anti-Semitic polemicist, but also a self-declared expert on picking-up women. He published a book on the “sociology” of pick-up techniques and has claimed 700 conquests. Ms Bangoura initially expressed an interest in Mr Soral’s politics. After an email exchange, she claims, Mr Soral suggested a sexual relationship and sent a naked image of himself (which has since been widely posted online, provoking ribaldry).

Ms Bangoura, 33, says that when she rejected Mr Soral’s advances, he sent her further emails in which she alleges he said, among other things, that “whites think black women are whores, which most of them are” and “your fate will be to be a whore for Jews”.

French Anti-Semitic Comedian Dieudonné Embroiled in Potentially Fatal Political Row

When Bangoura rejected Soral’s advances, he sent her a series of obscene emails. In one, he told her that “whites think black women are whores, which most of them are.” Another email declared, “your fate will be to be a whore for Jews.” Bangoura has now begun legal proceedings against Soral for racial abuse.

The Black Dragons mentioned in the first were a gang who identified as anti-fascist in the 80s/90s during that time the serious fighting with batskin and that lot started, but were also repeatedly accused of being anti-white. Whether they went with dieudonne this far was something i was wondering about when this thread was active. The doc on them is here - unsubbed.

 

[el-ahrairah]

wow, that's some unpleasant shit right there.