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Anelka's quenelle

brogdale said:
AFAIK his leftist politics relate to activity at leat15 years ago. I asked you directly how his recent and current ideological position could be described as anything other than right wing, and why you feel personally motivated to deny that.

I assume from your answer that you can't, and don't want to.
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No, it's just that I've done it already. Many times. On this thread. Which you should read before you post on it again.
 
brogdale said:
AFAIK his leftist politics relate to activity at leat15 years ago. I asked you directly how his recent and current ideological position could be described as anything other than right wing, and why you feel personally motivated to deny that.

I assume from your answer that you can't, and don't want to.
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The fact that he's moved onto a different crowd with different members and positions - members and positions that are attacked by his old crowd - demonstrates pretty clearly for those with open eyes (and non heh heh aren't i naughty everyone? intentions) the existence of differing positions, a left and a right.
 
butchersapron said:
The fact that he's moved onto a different crowd with different members and positions - members and positions that are attacked by his old crowd - demonstrates pretty clearly for those with open eyes (and non heh heh aren't i naughty everyone? intentions) the existence of differing positions, a left and a right.
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Differing positions, sure.

But I've no idea why you'd want to describe them as "Left-" or "Right-wing."
 
phildwyer said:
Differing positions, sure.

But I've no idea why you'd want to describe them as "Left-" or "Right-wing."
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I think most folk here would understand the ideology of the FN & PAS as right-wing. You've been asked to evidence why you think Dieudonné's position is not right wing...and singularly failed to do so.
 
phildwyer said:
Read. The. Fucking. Thread.
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I have, and I've seen you articulate your dissatisfaction with the L/R 'dichotomy, but I've not seen you actually substantiate your claim that Dieudonné's politics are not right wing.

Whether you like the 'dichotomy' or not is irrelevant, you said he ain't right wing. Justify that.
 
brogdale said:
I have, and I've seen you articulate your dissatisfaction with the L/R 'dichotomy, but I've not seen you actually substantiate your claim that Dieudonné's politics are not right wing.

Whether you like the 'dichotomy' or not is irrelevant, you said he ain't right wing. Justify that.
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If I don't accept that political positions can be classified as "Left-wing" or Right-wing," then clearly I cannot logically classify Dieudonne's political positions as "Right-wing."
 
phildwyer said:
If I don't accept that political positions can be classified as "Left-wing" or Right-wing," then clearly I cannot logically classify Dieudonne's political positions as "Right-wing."
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In which case, how, (and why), did you feel able to classify Dieudonne's political positions as not "Right-wing"?

Your words...

I've denied that he is right-wing.
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You can't have it both ways; perhaps you'd like to justify your claim and explain what motivates you to say this?
 
brogdale said:
In which case, how, (and why), did you feel able to classify Dieudonne's political positions as not "Right-wing"?

Your words...



You can't have it both ways; perhaps you'd like to justify your claim and explain what motivates you to say this?
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But I'm not having it both ways.

I don't think politics can be classified as either "Left-wing" or "Right-wing." I do not believe that "Left-wing" and "Right-wing" are real things.

Therefore, I do not believe Dieudonne's politics are "Right-wing."

Now do I make myself clear?
 
frogwoman said:
Perhaps if my old employers had done the quenelle while talking about how Jews control Ukraine and run all the money laundering there it would have been an anti establishment gesture instead of corrupt racist scum trying to put everyone in their place. Maybe to avoid any discrimination claims they should be sure to do that in future if they want to start discussing the Jews while one is sitting right there having to listen to all their crap.
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Hilarious on one level, as it's the fucking Russians who control most organised crime in Ukraine and have a head-lock on the Ukrainian economy.
 
phildwyer said:
But I'm not having it both ways.

I don't think politics can be classified as either "Left-wing" or "Right-wing." I do not believe that "Left-wing" and "Right-wing" are real things.

Therefore, I do not believe Dieudonne's politics are "Right-wing."

Now do I make myself clear?
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No. Unless you're prepared to outline your prefered ideological classification, and show how you would subsequently triangulate Dieudonne's politics you just sound like you're hiding behind some sort of ideological 'ignosticism'.

It is not intellectually coherent to claim that someone, or their views are not right-wing, and later justify that by saying that, (IYO), there is not such thing as right wing.
 
equationgirl said:
That in no way excuses you from posting sectarian views and you know it.
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and what sectarian view was that , exactly ?

ETA

bearing in mind hes the poster whos been giving other posters dogs abuse because of the particular church they send their kids to. Among other things .
 
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phildwyer said:
I don't accept that political positions can be classified as "Left-wing" or Right-wing,"
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That's a statement of your personal position; and is something different from saying that 'Dieudonne transcends the traditional left/right dichotomy'.

By your calculation, there is no such dichotomy. Therefore, no one fits within the traditional left/right dichotomy.

To state that someone or something transcends something, implies the existence of the thing transcended.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
That's a statement of your personal position; and is something different from saying that 'Dieudonne transcends the traditional left/right dichotomy'.

By your calculation, there is no such dichotomy. Therefore, no one fits within the traditional left/right dichotomy.

To state that someone or something transcends something, implies the existence of the thing transcended.
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No it doesn't- it implies it's transcendence. That's the point. At best it contains its prior existence. Not ongoing. But at an end. Because of being transcended.
 
phildwyer said:
These are positions that are shared by the extreme left and the extreme right, but not by the middle. Not unlike whatever crap Anelka is on about in fact.

I am beginning to suspect that the extremes have more in common with each other than either does with the middle.
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This is an instance of defective logic.

Both the Communist and National Socialist parties in 30s Germany wanted to bring order to society, to get the unemployed working, to see everyone getting three square meals etc. In spite of the interests in common, they continued to inhabit different ends of the political spectrum - left and right.

The test of 'left' vs 'right' isn't interests; it's the methods contemplated by the groups/parties, to be used or available to be used, in bringing those interests/goals about.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
This is an instance of defective logic.

Both the Communist and National Socialist parties in 30s Germany wanted to bring order to society, to get the unemployed working, to see everyone getting three square meals etc. In spite of the interests in common, they continued to inhabit different ends of the political spectrum - left and right.

The test of 'left' vs 'right' isn't interests; it's the methods contemplated by the groups/parties, to be used or available to be used, in bringing those interests/goals about.
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And that's as a daft a thing that he's argued - but you actually think it.
 
Casually Red said:
and what sectarian view was that , exactly ?

ETA

bearing in mind hes the poster whos been giving other posters dogs abuse because of the particular church they send their kids to. Among other things .
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When you called him a
Casually Red said:
it took you a full hour to think up that stunning comeback after your foot got stuck in your big mouth

now fuck off you little orange cunt
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butchersapron said:
And that's as a daft a thing that he's argued - but you actually think it.
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In all honesty I'd say stated, rather than argued.

I've not gleaned any impression from his posting that he has cogently argued for any novel system of ideological classification.
 
equationgirl said:
When you called him a
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and what ? Orangism is a political position,extreme loyalism and religious intolerance, not a religious faith. He was brought up a catholic so im plainly not insulting his religious background . Some of the views he expresses here are on a par with loyalism . Thats whats being criticised..insulted actually . Due to him yet again coming onto a thread, giving it the big one and abusing myself repeatedly .

Your accusations of sectarianism are therefore a load of hysterical bollocks. As are that other fucking wankers.
 
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