Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Particularly Nasri's has a corporate speak that suggests his management wrote it. Pure damage limitation.
Anelka's quenelle
- Thread starter where to
- Start date
so start one then.
I just spotted your little blue "here" on page 2 or 3 which led me to the thread about the kid killed in Paris by yer man Batskin's mob.
This was really significant, but I didn't spot it and afaik you chose not to respond to me question 'who the fuck is batskin whwen he is at home'. Why could you not just post a proper (as in big, too big to miss) link instead of that? That would have been really helpful.
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Just brings us back to intent doesn't it?
I don't know what french society/culture is like but it is a bit daft to try to impose what something means to me and mine onto other people without looking at what it might mean to them.
For example, in the 80's somebody using the 'N'-word who was from some wee, white, northern town - with hardly any black people and where it was in common usage and not deemed particularly offensive - was completely different to someone who lived in London.
Likewise, someone in London who chose to use the word schwartzer (sp?) had no wriggle room whatsoever.
On that Blood & Honour 'Main Event' thing special/extra beatings were dished out to Germans. Not because anybody was anti-German but because it was reasonably considered that although some english kid from the sticks could be wearing Nazi gear as a (still slappable) fasnion/identity statement, a German wearing Nazi gear could have no such excuses/wriggle room.
Only a couple of years ago a good number of rural, conservative, unionist public representatives had to have it explained to them that the term 'darkies' was offensive. I don't think any UKIP rep would use that term without knowing they are going to be pulled on it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I've never read Nietzhe.
Also, this stuff about God existing if people believe in him is a load of rubbish. God either exists or he doesn't. His existence can hardly be dependant on human belief
And yet without human belief that G-d is something more than a label for a set of events attributed to a mysterious supernatural power, G-d doesn't exist. All that exists are events and occurrences that might be attributed to G-d (or to natural phenomena). If you believe in your G-d and in their power to, say, make Sodom and Gomorrah fall into utter destruction, then you make your G-d real to you - your G-d exists for you through their acts and their actions.
You shouldn't have mentioned theology, Edie!
I remember a few years ago on a Site in Dublin, there was a bit of Dub Vs Culchie slagging going on which both amused and perlexed the poles.
One of the lads asked the Poles who they told jokes about. Now they were from all over Poland (Urban and rural) but they all looked at each other, nodded and said matter-of-factly 'Jews'. I asked for an example and after some discussion in Polish one of them proffered a complete toe-curler which caused other jaws to drop - whilst the Poles all burst their shite laughing.
Now none of these fellas had ever said anything racist in my hearing. They were all philosophical about what the Russians and Germans had done to Poland- "it's the system, not the people" was their usual shrugged reply. But, they came from a society where it was perfectly acceptable (although a little bit 'ooh-err Missus) socially to tell jokes about the holocaust and the death camps and seemed non-plussed at how these 'jokes' might be perceived by others.
One of the lads asked the Poles who they told jokes about. Now they were from all over Poland (Urban and rural) but they all looked at each other, nodded and said matter-of-factly 'Jews'. I asked for an example and after some discussion in Polish one of them proffered a complete toe-curler which caused other jaws to drop - whilst the Poles all burst their shite laughing.
Now none of these fellas had ever said anything racist in my hearing. They were all philosophical about what the Russians and Germans had done to Poland- "it's the system, not the people" was their usual shrugged reply. But, they came from a society where it was perfectly acceptable (although a little bit 'ooh-err Missus) socially to tell jokes about the holocaust and the death camps and seemed non-plussed at how these 'jokes' might be perceived by others.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
See, the "win" or "lose" thing is secondary, for me, to learning.
Even learning a new mum cuss (if such a thing exists!).
Don't understand this. It's obviously possible for God to exist independent of human belief. It's also possible God exists and does not intervene in human affairs at all.And yet without human belief that G-d is something more than a label for a set of events attributed to a mysterious supernatural power, G-d doesn't exist. All that exists are events and occurrences that might be attributed to G-d (or to natural phenomena). If you believe in your G-d and in their power to, say, make Sodom and Gomorrah fall into utter destruction, then you make your G-d real to you - your G-d exists for you through their acts and their actions.
You shouldn't have mentioned theology, Edie!
I responded to that Liam and told you what scum he was.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
A lot of that shit is pure formula used by businesses to make non-apologies* presented as apologies.
*The sort of "apology" with small print that says "this apology in no way implies that the issuer takes any responsibility for what is being apologised for".
I know you did and I acknowledged you for doing so by immediately 'liking' your post.
My point was that BA's posts are (too often IMO) implicit when it would be more helpful if they were explicit.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Have you not seen Shoah then?
Many old Poles, interviewed about the war, make comments along the lines of: "well of course we had reservations about the Nazis, but maybe they weren't all bad--after all, they did get rid of the Jews..."
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's not "obviously possible" to me, because I don't believe that "In the beginning was the Word". I believe that in the beginning was the fusion of cometary and planetary material that combined into what became "the earth", and that G-d is an artefact of the human need to believe in external agency/something "bigger" than we are.
And, of course, to believe in something on which we can lay off responsibility for our own faults, mistakes and crimes (which is a very "human" thing to do).
It may be the case, but why, unless you're a cosmic sadist who gets off on watching millennia of person killing person?
I might accept the idea of a non-interventionist G-d if so many priests and believers didn't claim that their G-d has so often broken the "non-intervention" clause to allow miracles to occur; to guide the chosen people; to place a divine agent in human form, etc etc etc.
This is why I say that G-d exists (or any G-d exists) for those that believe - because the only way your G-d can exist alongside the contradictions between what scripture states and what is claimed, is through the belief of the faithful - through the unquestioning devotion of the believer.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
Well...some on this thread have called me an anti-semite and a racist.
Trouble is, I'm not. The burden of proof for such claims is very low here. You can call anyone anything pretty much with nothing but a few twisted words.
So when the claims are flying around...how much weight would a reasonable person give them? As you said, just because someone claims something...
Nope. Direct me to it.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Right Edie since you asked about what i believe, I have no idea in all honesty whether God exists or not, there's no proof that he does or doesn't. I have had experiences I can't explain though. I think he probably does exist to be honest, there was a time in my life when I was seriously on the point of killing myself and I think that God stopped me doing it. I distinctly heard something telling me not to do it and I've never had anything like that before or since, I've had mental health problems but I don't hear voices or anything like that. In terms of what doctrines of religious theology, no fucking idea. I don't really think we are a 'chosen people' or anything like that and got no idea about heaven, hell, purgatory, reincarnation etc, I hope there is something when I die but there may not be, I think we should live like there is only one life and make the most of it. I know what I don't believe tho lol.
I don't think God is entirely good because he wasn't there when I needed him the most and for years after that I stopped believing completely. Got back into it again but not in the same way, a big reason why I do the stuff is because people died so I could do it and observing the stuff means I am honouring them. I know that sounds a bit morbid like. Another reason is because I find it comforting and I feel like it gives my life a bit of a structure and I need that, I also see doing a lot of the stuff as a challenge for example with eating etc and its helped me give a shit about eating healthily in general. All these reasons might sound a bit weird and to be honest I'm really not entirely sure about any of it, I try and be a good person and not be a cunt and that's all anyone can really do.
I don't think God is entirely good because he wasn't there when I needed him the most and for years after that I stopped believing completely. Got back into it again but not in the same way, a big reason why I do the stuff is because people died so I could do it and observing the stuff means I am honouring them. I know that sounds a bit morbid like. Another reason is because I find it comforting and I feel like it gives my life a bit of a structure and I need that, I also see doing a lot of the stuff as a challenge for example with eating etc and its helped me give a shit about eating healthily in general. All these reasons might sound a bit weird and to be honest I'm really not entirely sure about any of it, I try and be a good person and not be a cunt and that's all anyone can really do.
ViolentPanda if you don't mind me saying, I thought you were Jewish (by belief I mean, not just culturally). It seems a bit strange for someone who doesn't believe in God to superstitiously miss out the o in G-d?
I thought, maybe he's doing that because Jews aren't allowed to say or type the word God and it might offend them to even read the word God. But that's not the case for froggy?
Do you mind me asking why you do it? (I fear this may be very personal so apologies if it is!)
I thought, maybe he's doing that because Jews aren't allowed to say or type the word God and it might offend them to even read the word God. But that's not the case for froggy?
Do you mind me asking why you do it? (I fear this may be very personal so apologies if it is!)
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
A God thread maybe? With poll? Might be interesting, if not a thread that contains the seeds of it's own bun fight.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
its not the reading its the potential for destruction. The Word, the unknowable and unsayable name etc.
Surely you can't just form a belief about God, and what kind of God He is (ie 'not entirely good), just based on your own personal experiences though?
Like Voldemort?
But that means VP does actually believe in G-d (the bastard etc).
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I used to do it. The reason I don't do it all the time is just because I'm more laid back about my beliefs these days. The rationale for doing it is because you're not supposed to destroy God's name or write his name on anything that can be destroyed. So that is why if you're writing on a piece of paper and are observant you will write the word G-d rather than god, because if you threw that piece of paper away it would be A Bad Thing. Opinions vary as to whether these rules apply on the internet because the name of God here isn't physical and deleting it doesn't technically count as destroying it as it doesn't exist physically. In leaflets about Judaism even in reform synagogues you will often see the word g-d written as it may be thrown away. In addition the reason that words like G-d came about is because its a prohibition on destroying the Hebrew names of God which are in turn a substitute for the name of God that you are not supposed to say (outside certain times in the temple, which doesn't exist any more).
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
No you can't, but I don't think being angry with God is necessarily bad, its got a very long tradition. Some people have been angry and rejected God for their faith to eventually be strengthened, questioning/being angry with God and his judgements is something that has a long tradition in all religions and should be encouraged.
ETA also, with respect you have no idea what my religious practice and my relationship with God is like now. I was describing some of the difficulties I have with it. I'm not saying this is what he is definitely like.
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The substance of your post was speculation about why various people might oppose capitalism, and what they might want to put in its place.
I just don't think people's motives are so clearly identifiable, except in practice. And any kind of revolutionary practice will utterly transform people's motives, aims, and possibilities, so there's little point in speculating about them beforehand.
That's the lesson of history.
Furthermore, although you call yourself an anti-capitalist, you readily admit that you'd choose capitalism over a wide variety of alternatives. That tells me that you do not understand what capitalism is or what it does.
And finally, most probably related to the above, you have absolutely NO STRATEGY WHATSOEVER for actually bringing capitalism to an end. Which you must admit is a rather serious deficiency in an anti-capitalist.
And so while I'm most awfully sorry to outrage your decency:
While this is mostly correct I've no idea what it has to do with the thread???
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Me, I tend to check and double check, and then weigh the balance of probabilities. For me, the balance of probabilities seem to lie with Anelka being disingenuous about his salute, because he realised what a cunt he'd look.
Unlike the daft cunt* on this thread who reckoned that I'd said that they accused another poster of being a Nazi. They obviously don't "check and double check".
*That'd be you, post #293, you nugget.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm not a follower of any part of the Judaic faith. I'm a non-observant cultural Jew.
Some Jews who have faith ARE offended/upset by reading it. Not all, though.
I miss the "o" out, out of respect for those who do believe in She/He/It, and might feel disturbed seeing She/He/It named, not out of superstition.
It is a personal thing, but only insofar as it's a personal preference to not offer offence.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
When this topic came up before his reply was that he was doing it out of respect for others which is as good a reason as any. 'You don't have to believe in God, you just have to do what he says'.