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Anelka's quenelle

elbows said:
I don't really understand the point of half-hearted forgiveness on the spiritual plane. All or nothing, or its just a nonsense of vengeful, petty god(s).

The whole 'love your enemy' and 'turn the other cheek' stuff interests me. Sure there are many scenarios where it seems like a weak and dangerous plan, but then again there seems to be some interesting potential there, if done right. I don't have much faith that it could ever happen, but anything that could break vicious circles is at least worth some occasional pondering in my book.

And I certainly don't see the point in loving only those that it is easy to love.
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Absolutely. God's willingness to mend, forgive, lift guilt is without limit. You can't shrink it down because you want to frogwoman, you can't turn it into a Get Out of Jail Free card for those YOU deem worthy of grace. Otherwise God is diminished to human justice writ large.

Is it uncomfortable to think Hitler and Ian Watkins may be forgiven, that Norwegian summer camp massacres and people who fly planes into tower blocks may be loved? Yes. Of course it is!

But would you prefer the alternative idea?

God wants EVERY soul. Not just those you wish to define as deserving.

God has to be big enough to handle horror. At least in my mind.
 
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Edie said:
That is SUCH a fucking irritating comment I feel like stomping down to Brixton and having it fucking out with you.

How the FUCK would YOU know! What, a philosophical question that for millennia humans have wrestled with, the sum total of mans investigation into theology, summarised by a fuckin smug PS! Think on ffs.
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Even though I don't believe in God, that was a mint post.
 
Edie said:
That is SUCH a fucking irritating comment I feel like stomping down to Brixton and having it fucking out with you.

How the FUCK would YOU know! What, a philosophical question that for millennia humans have wrestled with, the sum total of mans investigation into theology, summarised by a fuckin smug PS! Think on ffs.
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You'll just have to forgive him, then.
 
Edie said:
That is SUCH a fucking irritating comment I feel like stomping down to Brixton and having it fucking out with you.

How the FUCK would YOU know! What, a philosophical question that for millennia humans have wrestled with, the sum total of mans investigation into theology, summarised by a fuckin smug PS! Think on ffs.
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editor's right mind
 
LiamO said:
B.A. He's the thread sherrif round these here parts
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Haystacks? He's a trumpet. And a Thatcherite - He knows full well his abrasive posting style upsets people (not me though), but he still steamrollers on with the attitude "If you don't like the way I post that's your hard luck" - Which is not just a Thatcherite attitude but a quintessentially Thatcherite attitude if you ask me.

I just think he's a wally though, I used to think he was halfway having a laugh, or even conducting some weird experiment in what people will allow to be possible, but now I'm coming round to thinking there's a lot less to him than meets.

E2a the eye.
 
Edie said:
How the FUCK would YOU know! What, a philosophical question that for millennia humans have wrestled with, the sum total of mans investigation into theology, summarised by a fuckin smug PS! Think on ffs.
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LOL. And your actual proof of this invisible God's supposed existence is..... a big fat ZERO, so cut out the unpleasant abuse if you don't mind. Besides, your non existent God wouldn't like it either (depending on which version you're electing to believe in, of course).
 
butchers is astonishingly clever but he can be a *right* cunt if you won't agree with him. He doesn't care about upsetting people to make a point which I despise sometimes. And leads to a lot of people kissing his arse. I dislike that more tbh. He's infuriatingly right often though, specially if you read shit back a while after, but fuck me at the time it can be like fighting a cryptic crossword with a hate grudge.
 
Edie said:
Absolutely. God's willingness to mend, forgive, lift guilt is without limit. You can't shrink it down because you want to frogwoman, you can't turn it into a Get Out of Jail Free card for those YOU deem worthy of grace. Otherwise God is diminished to human justice writ large.

Is it uncomfortable to think Hitler and Ian Watkins may be forgiven, that Norwegian summer camp massacres and people who fly planes into tower blocks may be loved? Yes. Of course it is!

But would you prefer the alternative idea?

God wants EVERY soul. Not just those you wish to define as deserving.

God has to be big enough to handle horror. At least in my mind.
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I wouldn't have a problem with any of the above if those sort of beliefs weren't so often tied to judging people that believe something different or used as stick to beat people with while promoting violence. I wouldn't have a problem with people believing any of that and I dont. I agree that sometimes we fuck up, that nobody is perfect, that sometimes 'good' people can do horrible horrible shit. It is just that the idea that everything is forgiven is a bit sickening combined with the extreme intolerance shown by some - SOME - people that say they are all about that. I'm not saying that if you fuck up that's it and that I believe some harsh shit. I just think there has to be a line somewhere you know? A loving god would forgive almost anything. But I don't like getting lectures on this stuff from people who don't practice it in their own lives and whose actions and beliefs lead to the type of behaviour that's described in the thread. At that point I'd say it is my concern because what they say and do affects my quality of life and the decent society. I'm not saying you do this, I'm just saying I find it very objectionable. Especially when that love involves accepting a set of views about unprovable spiritual matters that people have killed entirely innocent people for.

That's all I'm saying. Not that you shouldn't believe it or that I don't believe people are redeemable, fuck I've done enough bad things in my life.
 
Edie said:
butchers is astonishingly clever but he can be a *right* cunt if you won't agree with him. He doesn't care about upsetting people to make a point which I despise sometimes. And leads to a lot of people kissing his arse. I dislike that more tbh. He's infuriatingly right often though, specially if you read shit back a while after, but fuck me at the time it can be like fighting a cryptic crossword with a hate grudge.
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stop fighting then
 
killer b said:
where's the unpleasant abuse? you were being a smirking twat tbf.
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Great to see you're as predictable and as dull as ever with your readiness to leap in and throw around some unprovoked personal abuse. Well done. Give yourself a button badge.
 
frogwoman said:
I wouldn't have a problem with any of the above if those sort of beliefs weren't so often tied to judging people that believe something different or used as stick to beat people with while promoting violence. I wouldn't have a problem with people believing any of that and I dont. I agree that sometimes we fuck up, that nobody is perfect, that sometimes 'good' people can do horrible horrible shit. It is just that the idea that everything is forgiven is a bit sickening combined with the extreme intolerance shown by some - SOME - people that say they are all about that. I'm not saying that if you fuck up that's it and that I believe some harsh shit. I just think there has to be a line somewhere you know? A loving god would forgive almost anything. But I don't like getting lectures on this stuff from people who don't practice it in their own lives and whose actions and beliefs lead to the type of behaviour that's described in the thread. At that point I'd say it is my concern because what they say and do affects my quality of life and the decent society. I'm not saying you do this, I'm just saying I find it very objectionable. Especially when that love involves accepting a set of views about unprovable spiritual matters that people have killed entirely innocent people for.

That's all I'm saying. Not that you shouldn't believe it or that I don't believe people are redeemable, fuck I've done enough bad things in my life.
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I've still no idea what you actually believe tbh :D
 
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