Amazon - seller won't accept return of camera that arrived damaged

[Miss Caphat]

Not quite sure what to do here.

Purchased a camera from an individual seller on Amazon. Camera was listed as "Used- Very Good Condition" He'd had some reviews saying things arrived damaged or poorly packaged, but his profile stated that "if you don't like something,return it for your full money back" and the majority of his reviews were good, 5 stars, so I figured I had nothing to lose.
Lo and behold the camera arrived very shoddily packaged, inside a box that was too small for the camera, not even taped shut or anything, inside a larger box with absolutely no foam or anything inside the large box to protect the camera, so it probably just went crashing around inside the larger box during shipping.
I was also very annoyed that it was just the camera, with absolutely no accessories or usb (it's a digital SLR) or manual or anything
The worst part was when I turned it on and tried to use it, it makes a grinding sound while focusing
I know this is very bad.
I immediately sent him a message through the "send seller a message" function on Amazon.
he has been very sporadic in his emails back to me, but has basically kept saying it's UPS's fault
and that he is trying to get them to issue a refund. Yesterday I got really annoyed and demanded he figure out a solution. I am tired of waiting. This camera was a replacement for my old one which got stolen about a year ago, and which I finally saved up enough money to buy, and I just want to get my money back so I can order a replacement for this one which isn't fucking damaged He said he never heard back from UPS and "can't" offer me a refund.

So, anyway, what do you guys recommend? Do I make it clear to him that I will make a claim against him, and give a very bad review if he doesn't issue a refund? Or should I just make a claim? Is it certain I will get my money back from Amazon? How do these things work?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

How much did it cost?

 

[Miss Caphat]

How much did it cost?

around $200

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Complain to Amazon and let them sort it.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Complain to Amazon and let them sort it.

are you saying this from experience or is this just your assumption?

 

[cesare]

I think you might have to go through the Amazon Payments Buyers Dispute Programme now that the seller won't sort it out: https://payments.amazon.com/help/Am...Resolving-Disputes/Handling-Customer-Disputes

And: https://payments.amazon.com/help/Am...User-Agreement-Policies/Buyer-Dispute-Program

 

[Manter]

Complain to Amazon and let them sort it.

This- I have only had one dispute and amazon were very good at resolving

 

[sim667]

Open an amazon dispute.....

Never buy second hand cameras off the internet without seeing them..... One mans A+ condition is another mans "totally fucked" condition.

 

[Greebo]

Knowing quite how careful people who actually like cameras are about wrapping and padding them, the comments that some of that seller's stuff arrived badly packed and/or damaged would have rung alarm bells for me. OTOH hindsight is 20:20

Given that the seller hasn't exactly been professional so far (bad packing, bad communication, refusing to accept responsibility) I'd go through Amazon to sort this out and give this person a very detailed and accurate review (ie. negative in this case).

A good seller tends to be as efficient at sorting out anything which goes wrong as they are when it comes to taking your payment.

 

[discobastard]

So, anyway, what do you guys recommend? Do I make it clear to him that I will make a claim against him, and give a very bad review if he doesn't issue a refund? Or should I just make a claim? Is it certain I will get my money back from Amazon? How do these things work?

Firstly, do not panic! Open a dispute according to Amazon policy as soon as you can. Take pictures of the camera and packaging if you have it all still.

DO NOT THREATEN the seller with bad reviews or anything like that - this will not help to advance your cause. Be polite and stick entirely to the facts in any communication that you have. Also - DO NOT write a review until the dispute is solved. Again, this won't advance your case - at worse, it will just wind the seller up and make them less likely to co-operate (even if they are eventually forced to).

Once you have opened the dispute, submit any info you are required to Amazon and do not contact the seller unnecessarily (bear in mind that if you are contacting the seller through Amazon, everything will be recorded - do NOT contact the seller by phone or by email outside the Amazon site).

Given that the seller has tried to chase a refund from UPS suggesting that it is 'their fault', then there is at least an admission from the seller that there *is* a problem with what you have received. I've had disputes with both eBay and Amazon sellers, and they have always been found in my favour. If the item is 'materially different' from the description, like you say it is, then you are entitled to a refund by law.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Knowing quite how careful people who actually like cameras are about wrapping and padding them, the comments that some of that seller's stuff arrived badly packed and/or damaged would have rung alarm bells for me. OTOH hindsight is 20:20

Given that the seller hasn't exactly been professional so far (bad packing, bad communication, refusing to accept responsibility) I'd go through Amazon to sort this out and give this person a very detailed and accurate review (ie. negative in this case).

A good seller tends to be as efficient at sorting out anything which goes wrong as they are when it comes to taking your payment.

the bad reviews were older..it seemed like he had corrected any issues, and like I said it did say he would accept returns for any reasons.
I normally won't buy stuff from a seller w/ bad reviews.
but thanks, I think you're right on w/ the advice.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Firstly, do not panic! Open a dispute according to Amazon policy as soon as you can. Take pictures of the camera and packaging if you have it all still.

DO NOT THREATEN the seller with bad reviews or anything like that - this will not help to advance your cause. Be polite and stick entirely to the facts in any communication that you have. Also - DO NOT write a review until the dispute is solved. Again, this won't advance your case - at worse, it will just wind the seller up and make them less likely to co-operate (even if they are eventually forced to).

Once you have opened the dispute, submit any info you are required to Amazon and do not contact the seller unnecessarily (bear in mind that if you are contacting the seller through Amazon, everything will be recorded - do NOT contact the seller by phone or by email outside the Amazon site).

Given that the seller has tried to chase a refund from UPS suggesting that it is 'their fault', then there is at least an admission from the seller that there *is* a problem with what you have received. I've had disputes with both eBay and Amazon sellers, and they have always been found in my favour. If the item is 'materially different' from the description, like you say it is, then you are entitled to a refund by law.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

ok, thanks so much that's very helpful.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Open an amazon dispute.....

Never buy second hand cameras off the internet without seeing them..... One mans A+ condition is another mans "totally fucked" condition.

thing is, the first one I got, the one that got stolen, was used, but it was perfect, as the seller had described, and still had the box, manuals, and all accessories whoever had it had taken very good care of it and not used it very much. and it was less than I paid for this one. so, you never know.

 

[Greebo]

thing is, the first one I got, the one that got stolen, was used, but it was perfect, as the seller had described, and still had the box, manuals, and all accessories whoever had it had taken very good care of it and not used it very much. <snip>

FWIW VP has bought plenty of secondhand cameras over the net and mailorder and so far (touch wood) most of the ones he's bought have been at least as good as described. OTOH most of them have been non digital and older tech.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Another vote for doing everything through the Amazon channels. My feeling based on having been involved with previous shoddy experiences with sellers is that they will pull out all the stops to sort it for you.

 

[Gromit]

A-Z claim.

Sellers hate them. I know

 

[sim667]

thing is, the first one I got, the one that got stolen, was used, but it was perfect, as the seller had described, and still had the box, manuals, and all accessories whoever had it had taken very good care of it and not used it very much. and it was less than I paid for this one. so, you never know.

It's taking that chance though

 

[Cid]

You're in the US aren't you Miss Caphat ? Law may be different. Canada more likely to be like UK law... Still, it's probably similar either way - basically you have a contract with the seller, the seller has a contract with the delivery company. You can't claim anything from the delivery company because you essentially have no legal relationship to them. You completed a contract for the seller to provide one camera (very good condition) when you paid your consideration in the form of $200, the seller has failed to fulfill that contract. It makes absolutely no difference whether it's the delivery company's fault or not, your claim has to be with the seller. He can then lodge a claim with UPS (for failing to fulfill their contractual obligation to deliver the package safely). So err even more basically:

You -> Contract with seller
Seller -> Contract with you, Contract with UPS
UPS -> Contract with seller

Any claims can only be based on those relationships. Failure for UPS to honour their contract has absolutely no effect on his obligation to honour yours.

 

[Cid]

I've bought a camera on ebay incidentally, came boxed and with all accessories, very well looked after... I like ebay because you can generally tell when someone's trying to palm something off (couple of images, stock description) or when someone looked after something properly (many images, mentions of minor cosmetic blemishes, own description etc).