Allegations of widespread sexual exploitation of Calais migrants by British volunteers

[Wilf]

Your going to need to explain this to me . Explain to me why describing a male volunteer as a male , who was demonised as a sexist for calling this behaviour out is not ok ? How is it remotely bad ? The guy was on the receiving end of accusations of sexism simply for raising this issue. He was demonised. Just like you're attempting now .

You are keen to tell this as a simple story of female abusers and to highlight the issue of a man raising it and getting abuse for it. Who knows, it might be as unambiguous as that, but we don't know. Haven't even seen the facebook conversation.

Oh, and if you think me pointing that makes me soft on abuse, don't. Just fucking don't.

Also explain to me how referring to the cause of migrant welfare as the cause is a bad thing as well ? It's a fucking cause like any other ? How is it not ?

Fair enough, I couldn't figure out which cause you meant.

 

[Casually Red]

No he wasn't, that's you believing the spin of the article. You see some of us actually read and participated in that conversation.

A conversation were someone was accused of all sorts ? That's interesting .

I participated in a conversation about a bus driver recently were something very similar happened . obviously couldn't happen twice so the Independent must have just conjured the accusations out of their imaginations .

 

[free spirit]

I read all of 2 of he 3 threads in question and most of the other one, and I really wouldn't have characterised it as a tirade of abuse, or anything close to it, and it's really not true to say that he was demonised for raising it.

There may have been a couple of comments along the lines of why was he highlighting the female angle, and wasn't it in danger of being racist to argue that these mostly white volunteers shouldn't be having sex with the mostly black inhabitants of the camp, but that was a small minority.

Also the first post was made in a pretty provocative way, deleted and then rephrased in a less provocative way and discussions ensued that I believe have resulted in further discussions among the organisations working on the ground in an attempt to improve the situation between them.

Which is what the requests to not hold the discussions in public where the media were likely to pick up on them and sensationalise them were about - it's not exactly going to help the situation if negative publicity results in donations drying up at this crucial time, and the organisations on the ground were aware and were working together to attempt to address the concerns.

As far as I can see those threads have gone, so presumably you're just drawing from the Independent article.

 

[Casually Red]

You are keen to tell this as a simple story of female abusers and to highlight the issue of a man raising it and getting abuse for it. Who knows, it might be as unambiguous as that, but we don't know. Haven't even seen the facebook conversation.

Oh, and if you think me pointing that makes me soft on abuse, don't. Just fucking don't.

Fair enough, I couldn't figure out which cause you meant.

I'm keen to do no such thing . I've highlighted the involvement of both male and female and haven't at all dwelled or focused on either . Any reading of my posts will confirm that . I barely mentioned the genders involved . Said both were at it . sadly you tried to make something out of it that wasn't there .
I've highlighted the accusations of sexism merely as the means used to try and shut the guy up by those who were plainly angered at this exploitation being highlighted .

And I don't think you were soft on abuse either . I think you just used some unfortunate wording in an effort to defend a wider group of people you have solidarity with . Who unfortunately have some bad apples among them that need sorting out .

 

[Treacle Toes]

A conversation were someone was accused of all sorts ? That's interesting .

There you go again... Believing in the things you have no clue about. That's what is interesting.

Fyi, the group has over 30,000 people in it. There were numerous conversations going on on the same thread and not all disagreements involved the person who started it.

But you know, make it up as you go along as you seem to enjoy because that's helpful to those stranded in Calais.

 

[free spirit]

here's the pretty well thought out admin response from last week.

One of the oddities of Calais is that there is no effective control of who goes on site or what they do when they are there- it is one of the reasons it is such a dangerous place for minors.

We can't single handedly 'make' Calais safe but as volunteers we can do three things;
1. behave in the right way ourselves;
2. make sure the places we have control over are safe, respectful and appropriate;
3. report any behaviour that is outside our control.

So what does that mean?

We ask all volunteers to register with an association or organisation partly for safety but partly because they have a code of conduct. When you sign up to work with eg HelpRefugees/l'Auberge for example you agree to their standards of behaviour which are based on the UNHCR guidelines.

Some organisations which work in sensitive areas operate vetting of volunteers; the medical caravans check GMC numbers before you are allowed to work; the youth service ask for a current DBS check before you can get anywhere near their programmes. This is why requests to tell people where to find the children are given such short shrift; volunteers are working to make these places 'safe spaces' and all the grassroots organisations work to discourage casual un-vetted contact with these vulnerable groups.

if you see or hear something that concerns you, report the volunteer to the organisation they are registered with. That organisation will have a process for managing issues as part of their safeguarding process.

some issues involve people who are not registered with anyone; they are, in a completely unregulated environment, inevitably more difficult to deal with. We recommend;
contact one of the senior representatives of an association on the ground for advice. These people know the camp, the volunteers, the hangers-around and the situation and it's unique complexity. They can tell you what you can do, such as contacting the community leaders.
if a crime has been committed please report to the appropriate authority. Please note the CRS are not in most circumstances the appropriate authority.

Remember the site is technically illegal and uncontrolled; there is no one person or group responsible and able to control or manage what goes on. Everyone is doing what they can; and new things are always being explored to try and improve safeguarding on site. We can also all reflect on how we behave in camp either volunteering or when visiting friends and make sure we are respectful and behave appropriately.

 

[Wilf]

And I don't think you were soft on abuse either . I think you just used some unfortunate wording in an effort to defend a wider group of people you have solidarity with . Who unfortunately have some bad apples among them that need sorting out .

Apart from a bit of clothes collecting I haven't been involved in the relief effort at all. I know a couple of random people who are, but don't really know much about the actual groups involved in the Jungle (beyond the obvious bits seen on facebook etc.). I haven't got a direct interest in this. I just thought the Independent piece wanted to tell a particular story, without having any of the nuance that FS, Rutita and others are introducing.

Seeing nuance in this - or, to be more accurate, being concerned about the lack of it in the original story - doesn't mean I feel there's any ambiguity in the abuse of refugees by actual charity workers. And I'm equally clear that unattached volunteers shouldn't get involved. Moreover where there's evidence that someone is involved in 'consensual but exploitative' relationships, people should do what they can to stop it, even ostracise the person doing it (but again, this is very difficult in such an unstructured setting. Not quite the same in terms of vulnerability, but similar issues crop up in protest camps and the like).

 

[Wilf]

here's the pretty well thought out admin response from last week.

Yes. Pretty much reminds you of the value of knowledge and experience. It's easy enough to sound off on a thread like this* and set out some absolutes about abuse, but working things out in chaotic situations requires not only sound principles, but an ability to apply them.

* Just to avoid this ratcheting up further, the sounding off isn't aimed at anyone other than myself.

 

[Casually Red]

Apart from a bit of clothes collecting I haven't been involved in the relief effort at all. I know a couple of random people who are, but don't really know much about the actual groups involved in the Jungle (beyond the obvious bits seen on facebook etc.). I haven't got a direct interest in this. I just thought the Independent piece wanted to tell a particular story, without having any of the nuance that FS, Rutita and others are introducing.

Seeing nuance in this - or, to be more accurate, being concerned about the lack of it in the original story - doesn't mean I feel there's any ambiguity in the abuse of refugees by actual charity workers. And I'm equally clear that unattached volunteers shouldn't get involved. Moreover where there's evidence that someone is involved in 'consensual but exploitative' relationships, people should do what they can to stop it, even ostracise the person doing it (but again, this is very difficult in such an unstructured setting. Not quite the same in terms of vulnerability, but similar issues crop up in protest camps and the like).

The vulnerable will attract the exploitative, no matter in what guise they arrive . Some of this will no doubt also be plain stupidity by idiots out of their depth who can't see the harm they're doing . Who don't realise it actually is exploitative and deeply unfair and unhealthy . Well meaning amateurs can often make a bad situation worse .
I've said before, repeatedly, there's nuances in all these relationships were there's a major power imbalance . The article stresses that too . But they're still bang out of order so I'm not really interested in any nuance . I think it's irrelevant really . It should be zero tolerance .

I've also stated there's very little anyone can do about it . Being aware of it as a problem and policing ones own behaviour is something that can be done. As is reporting anyone who's fucking around . But even that will only go so far .

 

[free spirit]

It's really not a situation where ostracising would be the way forward IMO.

There a a lot of pretty vulnerable people involved as volunteers who can find themselves in way over their heads and many suffering burn out and mental health issues as a result, and end up doing things they otherwise wouldn't be doing - attempting to smuggle a child back into the UK, having sex with refugees in the camp......

Most in this situation should be encouraged to remove themselves from the situation, take a break and be offered support and counselling and guidance on re-establishing boundaries IMO - other than in clearly abusive situations such as someone caught having sex with children etc.

 

[Wilf]

Telegraph having a go at this story, it's now firmed up to 'sex for aid'. They appear to be simply recycling the allegations from the original facebook thread, no actual journalism. Pity really, if this is actually going on it could do with genuine exposure, rather than using rumour for their own lazy political purposes:
Calais 'jungle’ camp volunteers fear claims of sexual exploitation will hit fundraising

 

[Casually Red]

It's really not a situation where ostracising would be the way forward IMO.

There a a lot of pretty vulnerable people involved as volunteers who can find themselves in way over their heads and many suffering burn out and mental health issues as a result, and end up doing things they otherwise wouldn't be doing - attempting to smuggle a child back into the UK, having sex with refugees in the camp......

Most in this situation should be encouraged to remove themselves from the situation, take a break and be offered support and counselling and guidance on re-establishing boundaries IMO - other than in clearly abusive situations such as someone caught having sex with children etc.

Have you ever considered the position that such vulnerable people shouldn't be volunteers in the first place ? That they're a fucking hindrance ? Using the plight of others to validate themselves ? That they are plainly unfit for purpose ?
This is a human tragedy in Calais. People, not a cause or a position . It's not fucking Occupy .theres a shit load of idiots that shouldn't be there at all .that's why this bollocks is happening .

 

[bimble]

Just read the DM's littlejohn on this. Its true that I only read that stuff to get my 5 mins of hate but this time it's too much, actually feel sick.

 

[Manter]

No, I don't think so. FWIW I don't think even informal volunteers should be having relationships in the camps, full stop. I just think it's somewhat different to a schools or social services situation. Yes, most adult refugees will be in a situation of vulnerability - and so have the potential to be abused. That's why I'm against it. Suppose I'm really putting it the other way round. Adult refugees have their own agency and should be able to make their own choices. I could at least perceive of circumstances of a non-exploitative relationship - whilst seeing the whole thing as, at the very least, massively problematic.

Well said

 

[Manter]

In every charity that I have worked or volunteered at they specifically warn against this type of thing and stress that boundaries should be upheld.

If CRB etc checks are minimal I wouldn't be surprised if this stuff was going on

You have to remember the situation in calais; it's a slum. Absolutely anyone can come in or out.

The OP (and the article) managed to confuse a whole variety of different things and ignore the fact charities and associations can control their volunteers all they like... But absolutely anyone at all can walk into the jungle at any point. No one has any control at all over a slum containing nearly 11,000 people.

 

[Manter]

Have you ever considered the position that such vulnerable people shouldn't be volunteers in the first place ? That they're a fucking hindrance ? Using the plight of others to validate themselves ? That they are plainly unfit for purpose ?
This is a human tragedy in Calais. People, not a cause or a position . It's not fucking Occupy .theres a shit load of idiots that shouldn't be there at all .that's why this bollocks is happening .

Of course some shouldn't be (or at least not unsupervised)- but who will stop them?

If you get thrown out of one of the charities and turn up in camp the next day (which has happened) who can do anything about it?

 

[Manter]

Also worth saying;

- The guy who started the thread is an extremely good guy who has done more than most for refugees, including a long stint in Greece in a sea rescue team. Suggestions he is a plant or provocateur are pretty ridiculous.

- that said I thought the post(s) were ill advised and the discussion was ridiculous- rude, abusive, badly informed and unhelpful. (I was on holiday when it happened but have read it all since returning)

- There are undoubted issues in the Calais camp. Those working with particularly vulnerable groups have been crying out for help and support for over a year on how to safeguard them. They have had no interest and little support, despite begging governments, NGOs, the UN etc etc. So the timing and sudden concern is striking.

- the UN (and thus most aid agencies) doesn't ban sexual relationships. It 'strongly discourages' them.

- It is interesting to note that what the press has taken away and is running with is the white supremacist trope of black men sleeping with white women. Even hounding a couple in an undoubtably genuine relationship. There has been almost nothing about the actual, undebatable, horrific abuse; (which would involve looking at the CRS, truckers, smuggler gangs as well as people who come into camp to exploit and abuse, and addressing the moral culpability of governments who have known about this and chosen to ignore it; plus investigating a very small number of volunteers) or even about the morally ambiguous and potentially unethical (but some genuine) relationships that have developed in camp between refugees and volunteers. Just lots of leg rubbing about young white volunteers shagging black men, local women paying for sex from men in camp.... A lot of it reads like something justifying a lynching in the Deep South.

- It is also interesting to note that this blew up at the same time an eviction was announced, making it much harder for refugees to be supported and protected through that eviction.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Of course some shouldn't be (or at least not unsupervised)- but who will stop them?

If you get thrown out of one of the charities and turn up in camp the next day (which has happened) who can do anything about it?

It's clear that some important things are being overlooked by the OP because they don't have experience of how the charities in Calais work nor have they been to the camp.

How is anyone supposed to be able to control whether or not independent adults enter and leave the camp? Anyone that has been there knows that it's simply impossible to imagine, let alone do.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Also worth saying;

- The guy who started the thread is an extremely good guy who has done more than most for refugees, including a long stint in Greece in a sea rescue team. Suggestions he is a plant or provocateur are pretty ridiculous.

- that said I thought the post(s) were ill advised and the discussion was ridiculous- rude, abusive, badly informed and unhelpful. (I was on holiday when it happened but have read it all since returning)

- There are undoubted issues in the Calais camp. Those working with particularly vulnerable groups have been crying out for help and support for over a year on how to safeguard them. They have had no interest and little support, despite begging governments, NGOs, the UN etc etc. So the timing and sudden concern is striking.

- the UN (and thus most aid agencies) doesn't ban sexual relationships. It 'strongly discourages' them.

- It is interesting to note that what the press has taken away and is running with is the white supremacist trope of black men sleeping with white women. Even hounding a couple in an undoubtably genuine relationship. There has been almost nothing about the actual, undebatable, horrific abuse; (which would involve looking at the CRS, truckers, smuggler gangs as well as people who come into camp to exploit and abuse, and addressing the moral culpability of governments who have known about this and chosen to ignore it; plus investigating a very small number of volunteers) or even about the morally ambiguous and potentially unethical (but some genuine) relationships that have developed in camp between refugees and volunteers. Just lots of leg rubbing about young white volunteers shagging black men, local women paying for sex from men in camp.... A lot of it reads like something justifying a lynching in the Deep South.

- It is also interesting to note that this blew up at the same time an eviction was announced, making it much harder for refugees to be supported and protected through that eviction.

...and just how many of those claiming to care about the welfare of the camp residents are going to step up and help out once the next eviction starts?

 

[Manter]

It's clear that some important things are being overlooked by the OP because they don't have experience of how the charities in Calais work nor have they been to the camp.

How is anyone supposed to be able to control of whether or not independent adults enter and leave the camp? Anyone that has been there knows that it's simply impossible to imagine, let alone do.

He has been to the camp- he spent a lot of time there pre Greece and has been back since. But was very naive and was encouraged and fed lines by a long term troublemaker with their own agenda. As ever.... It's murky and complicated.

What he needed was a beer and a chat and to be put in touch with some people for more info and some support. Instead.....

And now there are journalists *everywhere* digging for dirt.

 

[Manter]

...and just how many of those claiming to care about the welfare of the camp residents are going to step up and help out once the next eviction starts?

Not a solitary fucking soul would be my bet

 

[Treacle Toes]

He has been to the camp-

I was referring to the OP here not the person who started the conversation on FB.

 

[Manter]

I was referring to the OP here not the person who started the conversation on FB.

Ahha. Yes. Sorry

 

[Casually Red]

It's clear that some important things are being overlooked by the OP because they don't have experience of how the charities in Calais work nor have they been to the camp.

How is anyone supposed to be able to control whether or not independent adults enter and leave the camp? Anyone that has been there knows that it's simply impossible to imagine, let alone do.

Where have I stated, even once , that it either can or should be controlled ? Nowhere . I've stated more than once that outside of policing ones own behaviour there's nothing can be done about it.

You're making up a straw person .

 

[trashpony]

Thanks to Manter for posting this excellent blog from someone who, like Manter, knows rather more about the Jungle than either I or the journalist who cobbled together a whole article based on a facebook conversation: SEX!

I know whose perspective I think is more trustworthy

 

[two sheds]

Excellent piece.

 

[Manter]

Excellent piece.

She's an excellent person really one of the good guys

 

[Wilf]

I'm never a great fan of people, however hideous, being referred to as Neanderthals or that stuff at the end about the gene pool recessing. Calling them misogynists would have covered it for me. However that's very much an aside/derail, it was an excellent piece.

Obviously and categorically, you have to condemn any exploitation that is taking place - of under age boys, of vulnerable people and others. But that is so far away from the couple described in the piece. And when you add in the circumstances of boredom that free spirit set out, you get a clearer picture of what is happening. And as the article says, those kicking up this fuss don't have the slightest interest in migrant welfare - quite the opposite - and just want to spin a tale of 'female predators' *.

* Though, yet again, because it's so important, I somehow feel the need to say that I hope anyone committing genuine abuse gets what's coming to them.... even though they won't ... largely because of the way the camp has been demonised by governments and the very papers spinning this story.

 

[Manter]

I'm never a great fan of people, however hideous, being referred to as Neanderthals or that stuff at the end about the gene pool recessing. Calling them misogynists would have covered it for me. However that's very much an aside/derail, it was an excellent piece.

Obviously and categorically, you have to condemn any exploitation that is taking place - of under age boys, of vulnerable people and others. But that is so far away from the couple described in the piece. And when you add in the circumstances of boredom that free spirit set out, you get a clearer picture of what is happening. And as the article says, those kicking up this fuss don't have the slightest interest in migrant welfare - quite the opposite - and just want to spin a tale of 'female predators' *.

* Though, yet again, because it's so important, I somehow feel the need to say that I hope anyone committing genuine abuse gets what's coming to them.... even though they won't ... largely because of the way the camp has been demonised by governments and the very papers spinning this story.

Tbh if you had been on the receiving end of some of the abuse I have seen and received myself over the last week you'd both be so angry that seemed positively restrained and understand where she is coming from. Most of it is abusive, barely literate, and built on a set of 'grab her by the hair and drag her back to your cave' principles that I genuinely thought we'd evolved beyond. Apparently if my husband cannot control me (those who think a slut/bitch/leftie/feminazi (choose your favourite epithet) like me can get a husband) they'll show me how a proper man treats a woman (I suspect that doesn't include amusing and mutually respectful conversation). I should be tested for disease, know my place shut the fuck up, stop betraying my race, tell them in precise detail how many massive black cocks I have had stuffed up me and do I beg for it? I should also apparently be helping soldiers not dirty afghans. A lot to unpack in that one....

'Misogynist' doesn't even begin to cover it.

And I'm not even particularly high profile or interesting as volunteers go.

 

[Wilf]

Tbh if you had been on the receiving end of some of the abuse I have seen and received myself over the last week you'd both be so angry that seemed positively restrained and understand where she is coming from. Most of it is abusive, barely literate, and built on a set of 'grab her by the hair and drag her back to your cave' principles that I genuinely thought we'd evolved beyond. Apparently if my husband cannot control me (those who think a slut/bitch/leftie/feminazi (choose your favourite epithet) like me can get a husband) they'll show me how a proper man treats a woman (I suspect that doesn't include amusing and mutually respectful conversation). I should be tested for disease, know my place shut the fuck up, stop betraying my race, tell them in precise detail how many massive black cocks I have had stuffed up me and do I beg for it? I should also apparently be helping soldiers not dirty afghans. A lot to unpack in that one....

'Misogynist' doesn't even begin to cover it.

And I'm not even particularly high profile or interesting as volunteers go.

Fucking hell.