Afghanistan mission accomplished, says David Cameron

[likesfish]

Theres a very clever book thats the thesis of a phd the MoD tried to ban that claimed the entire struggle in helmund was a tribal conflict that had been going on for hundreds of years that the coalition the taliban and pakisan intelligence and any other player was used by one side or the other for tempoary advantageand the whole point behind the campain was bollocks.

Of course this intelligent honest account of what had gone wrong was the end of of an officers career fortunatly he was TA and got his phd paid for Pity

 

[TomUS]

Let's hope the ANA has more bottle than the Iraqi buggers.

I get the strong impression that the ANA are just as or more likely to strip off their uniforms & run away as the Iraqi army.

 

[happie chappie]

Pretty impressive stuff - thousands killed, billions of pounds wasted and we've achieved a "basic level of security" according to Dave.

On that measure of success we'd have been better off handing over Afghan security to G4S years ago and saved ourselves a packet.

They couldn't have left the country in much of a worse state than we've managed to.

 

[coley]

Pretty impressive stuff - thousands killed, billions of pounds wasted and we've achieved a "basic level of security" according to Dave.

On that measure of success we'd have been better off handing over Afghan security to G4S years ago and saved ourselves a packet.

They couldn't have left the country in much of a worse state than we've managed to.

Bollocks, g4s would have cost a lot more

 

[happie chappie]

Bollocks, g4s would have cost a lot more

In all seriousness you do have to wonder how the average British soldier views all this.

Does he/she really think it's been worth it? That we've achieved some kind of victory, or even made Afghanistan a better, more stable country, let along made the world a safer place?

A decade of conflict - twice as long as WW2. The allies managed to defeat Nazi Germany and Japan - both formidable military opponents - in half that time.

We've pretty much lost a war despite deploying thousands of troops using some the most sophisticated weaponry in the world against an enemy with no air force or heavy armour and little more than AK47s, rocket-propelled grenades and the ability to make IEDs.

Hardly a record we can be proud of.

 

[coley]

In all seriousness you do have to wonder how the average British soldier views all this.

Does he/she really think it's been worth it? That we've achieved some kind of victory, or even made Afghanistan a better, more stable country, let along made the world a safer place?

A decade of conflict - twice as long as WW2. The allies managed to defeat Nazi Germany and Japan - both formidable military opponents - in half that time.

We've pretty much lost a war despite deploying thousands of troops using some the most sophisticated weaponry in the world against an enemy with no air force or heavy armour and little more than AK47s, rocket-propelled grenades and the ability to make IEDs.

Hardly a record we can be proud of.

I know how one soldier regards it, a missed opportunity, things could have been different if the afghan people though we were there for the long haul but once Obama made it clear the US were upping sticks most afghans knew which side to back,and ain't going to be any democratically elected lot.

 

[happie chappie]

I know how one soldier regards it, a missed opportunity, things could have been different if the afghan people though we were there for the long haul but once Obama made it clear the US were upping sticks most afghans knew which side to back,and ain't going to be any democratically elected lot.

I'm sure that's correct but in my mind 10 years is a pretty long haul. I'm not sure if we'd have stayed another 10 years or 20 years things would have been materially different.

If it had simply been a case of "one last push" we might have stuck it out a bit longer. But the military top brass knew it wasn't the case so there was nothing to be gained by staying.

The fight was, and would have remained, one of removing foreign armies from Afghan soil. Staying there would have just prolonged the conflict.

We could have saved ourselves a lot of grief if we'd have bothered to ask the Russians whether it's a good idea to invade Afghanistan.

 

[not-bono-ever]

we had plenty of previous in Afghanistan a hundred years earlier that should have been a bit of a warning

 

[coley]

I'm sure that's correct but in my mind 10 years is a pretty long haul. I'm not sure if we'd have stayed another 10 years or 20 years things would have been materially different.

If it had simply been a case of "one last push" we might have stuck it out a bit longer. But the military top brass knew it wasn't the case so there was nothing to be gained by staying.

The fight was, and would have remained, one of removing foreign armies from Afghan soil. Staying there would have just prolonged the conflict.

We could have saved ourselves a lot of grief if we'd have bothered to ask the Russians whether it's a good idea to invade Afghanistan.[/QUOTE

What it boils down to is this, western boots on the ground have to have the support of the people, propping up a (western supporting)unpopular regime is never going to work, seek out those who are moving in the right direction and give them support, even if their present behaviour leaves a lot to be desired, we can't impose western mores on people who's history and experiences are radically different from ours, aye we can rightly decry their treatment of women/minorities, to any right minded westerner it's unforgivable,but lets not forget we behaved in a similar manner not so long ago. I'm not in any way being patronising I'm just saying people at different times in their history have different values.
No doubt I will have me arse kicked for the generalisations I have made but while being tired and slightly pissed I have tried to be honest.
However targeted strikes against the IS can only be a good thing, they are a truly 21st century threat, without any excuse to supposed western attacks against The Islamic religion.

 

[Batboy]

In all seriousness you do have to wonder how the average British soldier views all this.

Does he/she really think it's been worth it? That we've achieved some kind of victory, or even made Afghanistan a better, more stable country, let along made the world a safer place?

A decade of conflict - twice as long as WW2. The allies managed to defeat Nazi Germany and Japan - both formidable military opponents - in half that time.

We've pretty much lost a war despite deploying thousands of troops using some the most sophisticated weaponry in the world against an enemy with no air force or heavy armour and little more than AK47s, rocket-propelled grenades and the ability to make IEDs.

Hardly a record we can be proud of.

Quite...
the naivety in the West is outstanding. There are decades of history Involving Afghanistan that one could have looked at. Invading the area and trying to get the locals to adjust to our way of thinking was and is never going to work. They have to figure things out for themselves, however unsavoury or even unlikely that may be.

Of course the problem was 9/11 The Americans wanted to strike back and get Bin Laden in case he wreaked further havoc and violence upon America, Bin Laden was a big friend of the Taliban and was undoubtedly being protected by them.

Some years back I met an ex political editor of the Sunday Times at a party. We were discussing Blair and the then relatively new war in Iraq. I was wholly anti Blair together with the war in Iraq, he was a big supporter of Blair and the invasion of Iraq which in his words would make Blair a hero in years to come if it brought democracy to the region, he thought Blair to be very brave and didn't care over 'the weapons of mass destruction' lies I thought Blair an egoistical imbecile. I'd love to know the ex political editor thoughts now.

The world we live in is a complex place and man is fundamentally stupid and self destructive. War and violence litters our history it hasn't gone away and is unlikely to... there that should cheer everyone weekend up!

 

[dylanredefined]

In all seriousness you do have to wonder how the average British soldier views all this.

They made money and got to be shot at and shoot back. Doing the job for real. Don't think anyone in the lower ranks cares or can spout bullshit about making the place better.
No overall plan was ever made . We are going to get bin laden , fight the Taliban , rebuild the country, mentor the new armed forces or what ever the
latest idea was.

 

[Yossarian]

More of Helmand seized by Taliban. Are they being considered allies against ISIS yet?

News from The Associated Press

 

[Johnny Doe]

This has aged well, Dave

 

[Chilli.s]

Turns out that most everything politicians spout that seems oh so clever at the time is actually fancifull nonsense, misguided optimism, or just a pack of lies

 

[moochedit]

I get the strong impression that the ANA are just as or more likely to strip off their uniforms & run away as the Iraqi army.

Can you tell me next weeks lottery numbers?

 

[gosub]

Can you tell me next weeks lottery numbers?

I wouldn't bother Jackpot is shit at the mo, last weeks, with a couple of hundred hummers in it, that was one worth having a ticket for