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Advice on working in sound engineering at gigs etc....

kalidarkone

kalidarkone

Bringing YOU round.....
My son mdk1....is at college doing a diploma in all aspects of film. He is very focused and recently was assistant producer on a short film and also did the sound and lights for a play in Bristol. He is trying to get some part time paid work and I thought that doing the sound at gigs would be great because he would get paid whilst socialising and seeing bands and possibly as festivals.

Advice musos please:)
 
If he's still at college with no real experience of live work, he's going to find it hard to get paid jobs. However, smaller bands are always needing someone to help out, so I'd suggest he offers to do the sound for some locals gigs/venues for free/beers, gets more experience and, hopefully, he'll pick up some paid work as a result later.
 
It's lighting rather than sound but years ago a friend of mine did work experience with these people: http://www.avolites.com/ and ended up with a job there. Maybe approach them and similar companies and see if they're looking to take anyone on part-time.
 
kalidarkone said:
he would get paid whilst socialising and seeing bands and possibly as festivals
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I've got to go out in a minute and will say more later, but need to pick this bit up.

Engineering bands is not a way to see them. If you're watching/enjoying the band you're not doing your job. It's not social and it's not a way to get into a festival for free. If you're working as sound crew at a festival you will be working from around 8am until past midnight. Every day.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
I've got to go out in a minute and will say more later, but need to pick this bit up.

Engineering bands is not a way to see them. If you're watching/enjoying the band you're not doing your job. It's not social and it's not a way to get into a festival for free. If you're working as sound crew at a festival you will be working from around 8am until past midnight. Every day.
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Yes I understand what you are saying . He is very focused and hard working . I was just thinking that it would just be a nice environment for him to be in. I though of this for him because last night I was at a gig in a pub and the guy doing the sound was very young and obviously he was working with the artists, so it has the social element in that you are interacting with the artists...all would be great for mdk1. Yes was thinking of small pub gigs. I know lots of gigging musicians and will get a contact that he can talk to about this. Advice appreciated as I clearly know nothing of this world.....so forgive me if I am being fanciful.
 
Right, got time to do a more detailed reply.

There's no easy way to say it, getting into live sound is hard. Very hard. It' even harder if you want to earn money doing it.

The first thing to consider is if your son really wants to do live sound (particularly if he's studying film). In many ways it's a really shit job. The hours are horrible, the work is often brutal (think loading 10 tons of gear into a truck in the pouring rain at 3am), the pay when you start out is rubbish (or often non existant) and if you haven't got a thick skin the banter and general fucking about will tear you to bits.

If that hasn't put him off the next thing to consider is getting your foot in the door. Best bet is to go round as many live venues as you can find and work out who books crew for them. Be utterly honest as to your abilities and experience, don't be tempted to bullshit, you won't last more than 5 minutes into your first gig. Be prepared for every venue to say no. However, if you get lucky you might find a venue that needs a spare pair of hands on a gig. This is the chance to learn and ask questions - I always say that there is no such thing a a silly question, but only ever have to ask once.

Oh, don't expect to get paid as a venue employee, every single engineer I know is self employed. You need to register with HMRC. You also need to have public liability insurance.
 
jusali said:
Decent ear protection, seriously!
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i used to do live sound at a club and i really wish i'd taken ear protection seriously, i now have four types of tinnitus. it's a real pain and caused me no end of problems with disturbed sleep, listening to music and hearing conversations in the pub. it sucks.

that said i loved being a live sound engineer. i got my break by chatting to the engineer at my local club, within a couple of months i was doing the sound for Chumbawamba, Carter USM, Pavement and tons of local bands, but as bees said, it's not very sociable.

he could also try any small, local pre-production studios. actually do these still exist, or is it all done at home now? it's been a while.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
I It's not social and it's not a way to get into a festival for free.
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I know it shouldn't be seen as such but it can be, ey?

My mate did sound engineering for a band (admittedly not very high up on the bill) at a Mardi Gras one year and got me VIPed too and after their slot we spent the rest of the time getting sloshed and necking pills.

E2a: actually i'm not sure if he was engineering per se, he was producing the band so may have just got involved with their set, I just assumed he was engineering but he may well have just been assisting/instructing the engineer.
 
My advice, fwiw, If he actually wants to do this, would be to get involved with some interesting local bands who may want their own engineer for whatever parties they organise. It usually means being the guy who has the equipment to make that work so may have to get his hands on some kind of desk, but it's a way to get some experience and his face known. Obviously it helps if you're not completely green. It's another option because, as bees says, getting a foot in the door with this kind of thing is notoriously difficult. But then again, so is film. :D
 
Just had a chat with the guy that does the sound at my local pub and has echoed what yo have all said but is up for giving him work experience and specially interested in that he is a big strong lad able to lug equipment round. I will put it to mdk1 and see if wants to go and have a chat with him.

Thanks for the input guys it was very insightful:)
 
Whilst no pro by any stretch of the imagination, he needs experience more than a college qualification if thats what he seriously wants to do. Getting him a bit of work experience is the best bet, even if he can just find a little crew that have a rig and take it round places that he can tag along with and learn the ropes in return for lifing stuff etc.

It might be worth him thinking about what other elements he can learn too to give him a few extra bows on his string...... lighting and distro (power) are worth learning about also.

The avolites company mentioned above are a lovely bunch, we've chatted to them a bit, it might be worth giving them a shout..... They did the lighting for the olympics opening/closing iirc.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
There might have been some Avo desks used but the lighting company was PRG :)
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O rly? The avolite stand showed the olympic ceremonies on their stand at PLASA..... But that could have been in reference to their desks as there were a lot of desks.

We won some software in their prize draw too...... still havent tried it out yet.
 
kalidarkone said:
Just had a chat with the guy that does the sound at my local pub and has echoed what yo have all said but is up for giving him work experience and specially interested in that he is a big strong lad able to lug equipment round. I will put it to mdk1 and see if wants to go and have a chat with him.

Thanks for the input guys it was very insightful:)
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best of luck to him with this.

In the downsides of the job has anyone mentioned soldering?
I'm off to do a long session of it, I hate it. :/
 
Theres another skanky bit to the job, cleaning cups out of the bins....I've never seen so many plastic cups in bins (and fake snow and straw for that matter)
 
kalidarkone said:
Just had a chat with the guy that does the sound at my local pub and has echoed what yo have all said but is up for giving him work experience and specially interested in that he is a big strong lad able to lug equipment round. I will put it to mdk1 and see if wants to go and have a chat with him.

Thanks for the input guys it was very insightful:)
Click to expand...
If he's fit and strong he could probably get work with one of the bigger rigging companies and get into some festies for free and make some money over summer whilst gaining some work experience. Might not be sound engineering but it's still valid experience in that sort of field and a good chance to network and get experience in the type of environments he will probably end up working in.
 
stuff_it said:
If he's fit and strong he could probably get work with one of the bigger rigging companies
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Not unless he has a National Rigging Certificate. Most rigging companies will want you to have IPAF certification as well. A forklift/telehandler license will also be an advantage.

One option that might be viable is to look at the local crewing companies such as Gallowglass, but be warned that it is bloody hard work. You need to be fit/strong and prepared to work your arse off.

Neither of these options should be viewed as a way to get into a festival for free. Most companies will rig the site, leave a skeleton crew on site to cover what's needed and the rest will go off to another job, only to return once everything needs to be packed down.


If you want a free ticket for a festival there are ways to work and get one. Technical crew isn't one of them.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
If you want a free ticket for a festival there are ways to work and get one. Technical crew isn't one of them.
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Id agree with this, the setup guys work mentally hard.

I've done site crew a few times (nothing technical at all) and thats bloody hard work too.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
You really really should. Imagine a stack you rig falls on someones head. Expect a rather large legal bill.

Not one company I work for will give work out unless they have on file a copy of a current certificate.
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OK I thought it would be along those lines, not usually me setting up the rigs but the venue(s) so I'll keep saving the pennies to try and buy one.
 
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