Careers advice for young people

[Idris2002]

Gosh, thanks for that.

No problem! Is there anything else my vast pulsating brain can help you with today?

 

[kabbes]

My point is that ideas about childhood are historical and political, not 'natural'. Likewise parenting etc.

Well, quite. And we live at a point in the cultural-historical landscape wherein neoliberal subjectivity has wormed its way further and further into the self-concept. To the extent that people are happy elaborating the reification of individual commoditisation within the capitalist structures that comprises a “career” within the current cultural-historical notion of “childhood” without even apparently seeing that there is a case to answer for doing it.

 

[scifisam]

Thora, I think you should repeat the above post to your son without changing any wording. That'll definitely be more helpful than answering his questions about what jobs he might be able to earn a living from in the future.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Yes, engineering is definitely creative.

While lots of jobs can now be done (at least partially) from home, I imagine very few are from the get go. So he probably needs to prepare himself for a few years in the office at least initially.

As to audio books, an actor friend does those but in a recording studio, never from home. (Lots of her actor friends do it as a sideline.)


Localisation is a nightmare IME. It's increasingly done by non-linguists as an 'add-on' to other roles. Maybe games companies have more budget/incentive to do it properly though.

As Theodore von Karman said, "Science is the study of what is, engineering builds what will be. The scientist merely explores that which exists, while the engineer creates what has never existed before."

But, engineering is collaborative, I'm not sure working from home is the way to develop a career, certainly in the early years. Software stuff may be different. I suspect we have passed peak work from home and expectations may need to be re-aligned.

send him to sea! not something a lot of people would consider, but ship's bridges are small teams working well away from the crowds. ETA and ships' chief engineers are about the only people now that understand all the technology they work with, and can fix it.

 

[Red Cat]

Well, quite. And we live at a point in the cultural-historical landscape wherein neoliberal subjectivity has wormed its way further and further into the self-concept. To the extent that people are happy elaborating the reification of individual commoditisation within the capitalist structures that comprises a “career” within the current cultural-historical notion of “childhood” without even apparently seeing that there is a case to answer for doing it.

Or it might be that he's an autistic lad who sees the world differently and he needs something concrete to shape his endeavours.

 

[tim]

.

 

[kabbes]

Or it might be that he's an autistic lad who sees the world differently and he needs something concrete to shape his endeavours.

It’s not the child’s framing that I’m talking about, though. It’s the adult’s. In fact, it was me that said that concrete information about the world of work was surely of more worth than the kind of institutional abstract social information that constitutes “careers advice”.

Look, no skin off my nose however somebody wants to deal with this stuff. But when there’s a thread on urban with zero context or background asking for “careers advice”, it’s hardly a surprise when the response is people providing earnest explanations about CVs and qualifications, and people express surprise when it turns out that the kid is 10.

 

[scifisam]

It’s not the child’s framing that I’m talking about, though. It’s the adult’s. In fact, it was me that said that concrete information about the world of work was surely of more worth than the kind of institutional abstract social information that constitutes “careers advice”.

Look, no skin off my nose however somebody wants to deal with this stuff. But when there’s a thread on urban with zero context or background asking for “careers advice”, it’s hardly a surprise when the response is people providing earnest explanations about CVs and qualifications, and people express surprise when it turns out that the kid is 10.

But nobody gave earnest advice about CVs, and mentioning future qualifications is relevant even at this stage, to have a general idea of which more job-related qualifications can be taken by someone being home schooled.

I also honestly can't see a post where you say to give concrete information about the world of work. To me it looks like you were suggesting the exact opposite. Maybe I'm just misreading you somehow - stranger things have happened - so can you point me to the where you argued for concrete information? (Not necessarily in those exact words, of course).

 

[kabbes]

can you point me to the where you argued for concrete information? (Not necessarily in those exact words, of course).

…that's because he still understands the world in terms of concrete physical operations, rather than in abstract social. So to him, "interesting" is a concrete "thing" that can be identified and achieved, rather than a lifelong process of self-development.

My 100% best advice for him would be to try to notice what it is that makes him feel content and focused when he is doing it, and pursue that for as long as it continues to make him feel content and focused. That's it for now. The career can take care of itself when its time comes. But you can't work out what you want to do in the future if you don't even know what it is you like to do in the present and, in my experience, most people don't.

I’m all for giving answers to questions and exploring ideas with your ten year old. That’s great! But there are frameworks for exploring and there are frameworks for exploring, I would suggest. A question about life in the adult world of working doesn’t necessarily need a careers advice consultation. It could instead be talking about the nature of jobs and work and society.

 

[scifisam]

Oh. I read that as the opposite of giving concrete information. Exploring ideas and talking about the nature of jobs and work is more abstract than concrete.

 

[kabbes]

Oh. I read that as the opposite of giving concrete information. Exploring ideas and talking about the nature of jobs and work is more abstract than concrete.

I was talking about situating the discussion in the concrete reality of things. Advice about a “career” is much more abstract than that. A “career” isn’t a job. It’s a series of jobs and roles that you progress through with the ephemeral aim of some kind of “development” or “growth” towards a nebulous point where you have “seniority”. I know you mocked earlier the idea that the thread title was wrong, but “careers advice” implies something that “discussion about jobs” does not.

 

[scifisam]

I was talking about situating the discussion in the concrete reality of things. Advice about a “career” is much more abstract than that. A “career” isn’t a job. It’s a series of jobs and roles that you progress through with the ephemeral aim of some kind of “development” or “growth” towards a nebulous point where you have “seniority”. I know you mocked earlier the idea that the thread title was wrong, but “careers advice” implies something that “discussion about jobs” does not.

That's ridiculously nitpicky. "Careers advice" is the general term for it, used by places like the careers advice service.

If you meant to situate it in the concrete reality of things, then that's what most people on this thread have been doing. But I suspect you don't mean "well, this job might suit his particular needs and skills," because it's that that you've been arguing against.

 

[kabbes]

That's ridiculously nitpicky. "Careers advice" is the general term for it, used by places like the careers advice service.

It’s not “ridiculously nitpicky”. It’s exactly why a whole bunch of people have gone “wut?”

If you meant to situate it in the concrete reality of things, then that's what most people on this thread have been doing. But I suspect you don't mean "well, this job might suit his particular needs and skills," because it's that that you've been arguing against.

I’m certainly arguing against the essentialist notion of a ten year-old being seen to have a particular set of “skills” that can be extrapolated to a forty-year career starting in his 20s, yes.

 

[equationgirl]

It’s not “ridiculously nitpicky”. It’s exactly why a whole bunch of people have gone “wut?”

I’m certainly arguing against the essentialist notion of a ten year-old being seen to have a particular set of “skills” that can be extrapolated to a forty-year career starting in his 20s, yes.

No-one seems to be doing that though, just trying to find out more about what he likes or doesn't like, hobbies etc so we can say 'what about X or Y?'

 

[scifisam]

It’s not “ridiculously nitpicky”. It’s exactly why a whole bunch of people have gone “wut?”

I’m certainly arguing against the essentialist notion of a ten year-old being seen to have a particular set of “skills” that can be extrapolated to a forty-year career starting in his 20s, yes.

I don't think that's why. They're objecting to the very idea of a kid thinking about jobs at all, even if it's the child who brought it up in the first place.

And the stuff in your second paragraph would be a good thing to argue against if it were what was happening. You're making a massive amount of assumptions.

 

[Winot]

This thread is classic Urban
We've all got too much time on our hands, haven't we?

Anyway I've been thinking about why my first reaction as to the question was scepticism, and I think it's because I've got a very linear view of how the decision making process goes, which (inevitably) is based on personal experience, namely that the process is a gradual winnowing down of options based on developing academic interests. In other words, rather than thinking about the end goal, you should define the end goal based on what comes before (the interests).

Of course that's not the only way to do it - you can decide the end goal first then follow the path that leads to it.

And in any event, there's no harm in discussing jobs in general, and of course a young person's questions should be treated seriously and answered as usefully as possible.

 

[Sue]

the process is a gradual winnowing down of options based on developing academic interests. In other words, rather than thinking about the end goal, you should define the end goal based on what comes before (the interests).

Of course that's not the only way to do it - you can decide the end goal first then follow the path that leads to it.

Or you could just fall into stuff like me and everyone I know.

 

[A380]

That's ridiculously nitpicky. "Careers advice" is the general term for it, used by places like the careers advice service.

If you meant to situate it in the concrete reality of things, then that's what most people on this thread have been doing. But I suspect you don't mean "well, this job might suit his particular needs and skills," because it's that that you've been arguing against.

Unless it’s pachyderm physiology or orbital mechanics right? Right?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

It’s not “ridiculously nitpicky”. It’s exactly why a whole bunch of people have gone “wut?”

I’m certainly arguing against the essentialist notion of a ten year-old being seen to have a particular set of “skills” that can be extrapolated to a forty-year career starting in his 20s, yes.

hmm at the idea that a current 10 year old will be able to retire in their 60s

 

[A380]

hmm at the idea that a current 10 year old will be able to retire in their 60s

Only if they take Pickman's model ’s advice ….

 

[scifisam]

This thread is classic Urban
We've all got too much time on our hands, haven't we?

Anyway I've been thinking about why my first reaction as to the question was scepticism, and I think it's because I've got a very linear view of how the decision making process goes, which (inevitably) is based on personal experience, namely that the process is a gradual winnowing down of options based on developing academic interests. In other words, rather than thinking about the end goal, you should define the end goal based on what comes before (the interests).

Of course that's not the only way to do it - you can decide the end goal first then follow the path that leads to it.

And in any event, there's no harm in discussing jobs in general, and of course a young person's questions should be treated seriously and answered as usefully as possible.

I wish I had too much time on my hands. I thought I was participating in threads in the way everyone else here does. Silly me.

 

[cesare]

This thread is really fucking annoying. Can we not just give Thora 's lad some career ideas without the impenetrable judgment deliverered as a fucking clever response.