Acid Communism ?

[butchersapron]

Funny. So much in there about neoliberalism and so on, but after all the analysis the three bullet points of grand strategy proposals includes:

• An experimental openness to the possibility of productive relationships between political actors from a range of political traditions and with a range of institutional or counter-institutional commitments

waffley.

That perfectly mirrors the Milburn book i talked about above, who actually takes his cue for his argument from or expands on a Fisher interview in 2011 where he argued that occupy (as was) needed to move into forming 'robust organisations' and do politics - Milburn argues that a 2011 generation immediately and as a whole learnt the lesson of the necessity of an electoral turn (against another 2008 generation, at that - lots of generations) and now well, run labour. The you look at what this means and it's the same as above just stated in so many different ways - all of which boil down to labour in power in parliament but being forced to do things from outside by a vast aggregation of extra-parliamentary social-movements. The exact same thing we have heard through every new left iteration and that never and cannot happen because that's not what labour (or the state) is for. Basic stuff.

 

[butchersapron]

Anyway, this isn't really about 'acid communism' i've dragged the thread a bit ot.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Anyway, this isn't really about 'acid communism' i've dragged the thread a bit ot.

You want to get on this acid corbynism themed boat party, comrade:
Headfirst Bristol — What's On In Bristol

"DJ Wetherspoon" FFS

 

[butchersapron]

You want to get on this acid corbynism themed boat party, comrade:
Headfirst Bristol — What's On In Bristol

"DJ Wetherspoon" FFS

Crumbs, i wonder if i'm too late for tickets. Certain comrades who you know have been getting pally with the upcoming movers and shakers of bristol transformed (as i think i've moaned at you about before) - i bet they're all aboard. Must check.

(Lots of boat based things happening now isn't there - that belle and sebastian actual med-sea going cruise for example)

 

[killer b]

that belle and sebastian actual med-sea going cruise

I was genuinely dumbfounded at that.

 

[butchersapron]

I was genuinely dumbfounded at that.

Me too, it was not...expected. Maybe that was half the point for them.

 

[LDC]

You want to get on this acid corbynism themed boat party, comrade:
Headfirst Bristol — What's On In Bristol

"DJ Wetherspoon" FFS

FFS, that's a spoof right.... or is it David Brent meets the Labour Party?

 

[butchersapron]

The NLR piece is worth a read even if it starts off on the wrong foot. The conceit of the piece is a comparison of Stuart Hall and Fisher noting many similarities as it outlines Fisher's life and work. The main similarity it concentrates on is that both examined popular culture in order to differentiate between what had value and what was meretricious or ersatz. Hall took this approach in a single 1964 book (The Popular Arts) and it was mainly from his joint author Paddy Whannel a straight up Leavisite - that is, someone who took the outdated ideas on culture from F.R leavis, based on the development of a refined discrimination; basically elite snobbery. (This from the basis of the early New Left's approach to culture as well, writing to the BBC to ask them to ban american music and to educate the proles into high culture properly). In the 64 book they applied to popular culture rather than it's previous use in examining/constructing high culture. That was its innovation. But that was the last time Hall used that approach - the remainder of his work was a quite clear rejection of that, decades of work overturning that way of looking at things. The introduction to the 2018 edition makes this clear. Yet, it's claimed to be central and also a key part of Fisher's approach/work. If it is then it may not be so cyber after all...

It's pretty good beyond that.

 

[brogdale]

The NLR piece is worth a read even if it starts off on the wrong foot. The conceit of the piece is a comparison of Stuart Hall and Fisher noting many similarities as it outlines Fisher's life and work. The main similarity it concentrates on is that both examined popular culture in order to differentiate between what had value and what was meretricious or ersatz. Hall took this approach in a single 1964 book (The Popular Arts) and it was mainly from his joint author Paddy Whannel a straight up Leavisite - that is, someone who took the outdated ideas on culture from F.R leavis, based on the development of a refined discrimination; basically elite snobbery. (This from the basis of the early New Left's approach to culture as well, writing to the BBC to ask them to ban american music and to educate the proles into high culture properly). In the 64 book they applied to popular culture rather than it's previous use in examining/constructing high culture. That was its innovation. But that was the last time Hall used that approach - the remainder of his work was a quite clear rejection of that, decades of work overturning that way of looking at things. The introduction to the 2018 edition makes this clear. Yet, it's claimed to be central and also a key part of Fisher's approach/work. If it is then it may not be so cyber after all...

It's pretty good beyond that.

This point reminded me of a paragraph from Part II 'Leaving Jamaica" (Conscripts of Modernity) of Hall's (with Schwarz) Familiar Stranger;

 

[DaveCinzano]

One of the bonkerest Novara things recently - Ash Sarkar getting death threats for posting a picture of herself eating a lolly in London because knife attack in Reading, or something.

 

[LDC]

One of the bonkerest Novara things recently - Ash Sarkar getting death threats for posting a picture of herself eating a lolly in London because knife attack in Reading, or something.

Fucking hell, that is totally and utterly fucked, and actually quite scary.

 

[eoin_k]

Has treelover seen sense yet, or does he still think there's something in this racist nonsense?

 

[LDC]

Dunno, but Keir "Acid Corbynism" Milburn is now a figure in the Labour Forward Momentum stuff.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Fucking hell, that is totally and utterly fucked, and actually quite scary.

Even more worryingly, it's not particularly unusual for twitter. Women and people of colour are bombarded with racism and misogyny every day.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I got a shoutout in the latest ACFM but they got my name wrong so that's OK and should not impair my credibility unduly in the anti-corbynist acid communist milieu (ACACM - which may or may not be a thing).

 

[hitmouse]

Stumbled on this thread while looking up threads about Belle & Sebastian. The ACFM episode on Kill the Bill really made me want to put my foot through my phone at several points, a lot of Jeremy Gilbert going "well it doesn't really matter cos doing street stuff is either when you do February 15th and don't stop the Iraq War or else it's when you do XR and get arrested on purpose, none of it's proper politics like being in Labour", Milburn did eventually get around to making the very obvious point that there's a lot of useful stuff that falls outside that is likely to be affected but it took them a long while. There was another recent-ish episode, I think the one about crowds, that similarly infuriated me with a lot of "what happened in the 2010s was that there was Millbank and then everyone grew up and did proper politics by being in Labour, if anything significant happened in between, such as in summer 2011 for instance, I certainly haven't heard about it". Otoh, the one about the long 90s was much more the sort of thing they're good at.
And if you're going to play a song you should play the whole thing, not just 20 seconds of it. Oh yeah, that was the other thing that pissed me off about the crowds episode, not only were they wrong about the early 2010s but they had an absolutely golden excuse to play "Sound of the Crowd" by the Human League and they didn't take it, divs.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Stumbled on this thread while looking up threads about Belle & Sebastian.

That's what you get for searching for Belle & Sebastian...

Having endured Gilbert's name dropping/LP obsession/telling the left to 'drop' stuff he doesn't value on PTO recently I've really enjoyed re-reading BA demolition job on this thread

 

[killer b]

He was really annoying on that PTO wasn't he? He actually said some interesting things - I thought his point that the cleavage point in British politics goes through the Labour Party was worth thinking about. But as ever, wrapped up in a load of smug bullshit.

 

[hitmouse]

Tbf, as a commentator who has some interesting things to say about culture but who comes out with some really stupid shit when he gets round to talking about actual strategy, you could argue that he truly is a worthy heir to Fisher's legacy.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

hitmouse I raised the "street stuff is a dead end" bits with them on twitter and the non-Gilberts were reasonably apologetic about it.

I think they only play 20 secs of tunes because of licensing issues.

Gilbert is annoying precisely because he is onto something, but absolutely rejects the extra-parliamentary left, anarchos etc. (Aside from the smugness / professorial airs)

 

[hitmouse]

the non-Gilberts

there's a name for an acid communist C86 band if ever I've heard one. (Cue lengthy argument about whether C86 is compatible with acid communism or not.)

 

[hitmouse]

Might as well cross-post this here, Mark Fisher memorial fest thing happening in Newcastle next weekend:

For K-Punk: Ghosts of My Life — Full Lineup Announcement

The full lineup has now been announced for our For K-Punk all-dayer at Newcastle’s The Lubber Fiend. Read on for a full breakdown of the acts performing and feel free to share any of the post…

xenogothic.com

 

[Fozzie Bear]

My old mucker Roberto Bui is very good on the latest "microdose" episode of the ACFM podcast talking about the Luther Blissett Project, the novel Q and Qanon.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

'Acid communism' is not something I can take seriously. I also came across the Acid Communism facebook page recently and theres some tankie stuff on there these days.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

'Acid communism' is not something I can take seriously. I also came across the Acid Communism facebook page recently and theres some tankie stuff on there these days.

Get stuck into this instead then:

Reading recommendations: left / council communism

I've read some of Paul Mattick's stuff online at the marxist internet archive and I thought that it was very easy to read and I agreed with a lot of what was there, I am not sure if I agree with it all but I would like to read a bit more about this stuff because it was a type of marxist theory i...

www.urban75.net

 

[Magnus McGinty]

'Acid communism' is not something I can take seriously. I also came across the Acid Communism facebook page recently and theres some tankie stuff on there these days.

I always assumed they were libertarian/liberal.

 

[LDC]

I always assumed they were libertarian/liberal.

Magnus McGinty I think it wasn't (still isn't?) as I think it originally came out of some people connected with Plan C (so more libertarian Marxist/autonomist-lite) and then jumped across to a radio slot on Novara Media with the addition of Jeremy Gilbert. It did become a bit of a weird meme thing around Corbyn as well (Acid Corbynism ffs), but god knows what other monster it's mutated into or weirdos it's picked up along the way. That tankie lot (especially the ex-Red London loons) do jump on anything that seems 'cool' and has meme potential.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

From The Quietus, a new book - Acid Detroit - exploring the counterculture of post-industrial Detroit:

Psychedelic Reason & The Post-Industrial City: Acid Detroit By Joe Molloy | The Quietus

Acid Detroit is a book written by someone just starting out on their life, 23-year-old Detroit native Joe Molloy. A Zoomer, then, one of those young people we hear so much about, but not yet that much from. It is a short-ish, speedy and highly readable work, full of conversational charm that...

thequietus.com

 

[brixtonscot]

Discussion on anarchism on acid communism facebook page

 

[Rob Ray]

Christ the comments below that post are everything I'd expect. It's an object lesson in why not letting tankies circa 2023 colonise and garbage your project is important.