Athos
Well-Known Member
I don't say we should trust all juries unquestioningly. But, in this case, there is nothing to suggest that they got the decision wrong. So i wonder why so many people are so determined to question this verdict.
Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison
- Thread starter Bahnhof Strasse
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I don't say we should trust all juries unquestioningly. But, in this case, there is nothing to suggest that they got the decision wrong. So i wonder why so many people are so determined to question this verdict.
trashpony
Hag
Apart from Evans and his family and the general rapey culture in the UK
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yes, I should have said no evidence (except the accused's testimony) to suggest the jury got it wrong.
But, sadly, there's still plenty who try to excuse what he did; including by hinting that he was harshly treated, without being able to point to anything concrete. As if this was a grey area - not like those 'proper' rapes where men in balaclavas jump out with knives, and drag virgins into bushes.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
That's not entirely true.
[source]
I think the porter also stated that he heard him ask her for aural sex, but I can't find that report now. That to me doesn't really tally with the idea that she was either passed out, or wasn't consenting.
The jury seems to have decided this essentially on how plausible they found each of the defendants versions of what happened, and how they claimed the girl had consented, so it is a pretty grey area really, the jury could easily have gone the other way.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Testimony of a man outside a door. Listening in on a drunken conversation. You are a rape apologist. You disgust me.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
oh fuck off.
I'm someone who doesn't agree that this was rape after reviewing all the available evidence. There's a difference, but apparently not on a site where the issue is entirely black or white.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
I always thought you were one of the good ones. No more. Fuck you.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
and I didn't think you'd be the type who'd shut down any debate or discussion in that way either.
juries spoken, must have got it right eh?
actually, fuck knows why I'm bothering with someone who's just come out with that shit.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Likewise. Take a good look at yourself and look what you are trying to defend. Then feel fucking ashamed.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I have, and as far as I'm concerned I'm defending someone who I consider is likely to have been wrongly convicted, and pointing out the danger of convictions being made on this specific basis.
That's not saying I agree with what he actually did, or have any sympathy or liking for that sort of culture / way of treating women, as I don't, it's the complete opposite of what I'm about really.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
that she consented.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
This is the nub. You think it's okay to have sex with incapacitated women you don't know. I think it's rape. As did the jury. Your views are vile, dangerous and criminal. You have been lucky up to now. But you won't always be lucky.
trashpony
Hag
You weren't in court and your 'evidence' is based on the twisted lies on Evans' disgusting site. You're a vile rape apologist and don't you fucking DARE make out you're some knight of justice.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The fact he heard people having sex does not undermine the fact it was a rape.
Where is the evidence that she asked for it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Astonishing what you find breeding under the liberal socially progressive rocks isn't it? Or at least what breeds when it's cut free from any wider collective social discipline. What horrors consent or free contract hides. And how often they look like power.
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Try telling that to the Torygraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ans-Sorry-but-all-rapes-are-not-the-same.html
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
It's true that not all rapes are the same, but what that article is actually implying is that some rapes are objectively less bad than others. Every crime is different and every victim will react differently, but the justice system has never been about quantifying the harm caused and punishing people accordingly. The point is that when you commit a crime like this, you don't give a fuck what effect it will have on your victim and that's what you should be punished for.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You have to pretty much have been a disciplinary nightmare a la Charles Bronson to fail to get the full remission of sentence for "good behaviour". Even most offences inside short of physical violence are dealt with via being sent to the punishment block for a maximum of a week, or being put before the Governor.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
A friend of mine made the point last night that athletes who get caught doing drugs have their medals taken off them and are never allowed to play again and professionals such as doctors and lawyers convicted of various offences get struck off and never allowed to practice again. There is never much controversy of this. It is generally accepted. Yet there is huge controversy ove this. What in fuck makes it different here?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The singling biggest problem with regard to harsher sentencing, is that harsh sentences are (at least in liberal democracies) often reflected in fewer convictions - juries are less likely to deliver guilty verdicts nowadays if there's an automatic high tariff. The single best move any government could make would be to trim remission back to 1/3 or 1/4 of sentence, but there aren't enough prisons and prison officers to cope with that (the current remission system was actually constructed at least partially to relieve "population pressures" in prisons
).
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There's no actual difference, but IMO what makes this "different" for Evans and his advisors is the potential millions of pounds of earnings from salary and sponsorship that won't now be coming his (and his advisors') way.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Athletes don't make as much money I guess.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Athletes are very rarely banned for life for doping as it goes. I think they should be but that's OT.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Athletes are still effectively "amateurs", albeit sometimes amateurs with lucrative sponsorship deals.
comrade spurski
Well-Known Member
The police lied in the Duggan case...witnesses directly contradict their version...there were discrepancies about whether there was a gun and where it was found etc...every other misjustice case has similar lies and cover ups from the police...the birmingham 6, guilford 4, tottenham 3, Maquire 7, the brazilian guy on the tube etc. etc.
There are no such inconsistencies in this case...so please stop with this bollocks of "tell it to mark duggans mother" and "I have less faith in the police"... a jury was not lied to, the rapist cunt was not beaten and threatened into making a confession...he is simply a convicted rapist and you sound like a conspiracy loon.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The act of rape is the same in every case: it is having sex with someone without the reasonable belief that they consent. And, of itself, that's always a heinous act.
The fact that some rapes might involve additional aggravating features which warrant further condemnation doesn't detract from the fact that, in essence, the nature of rape is the same in every case.
We should be very careful about creating some heirarchy of rape, as it plays into the hands of apologists who suggest that what Evans did isn't a 'real' rape.
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wobbly
This. exactly this.
it astounds me that there is such a common attitude that aquaintance rape is seen by so many as a lesser rape. it's not actual rape-rape. as though it's actually possible to quantify a difference between an attack on the street ending in nonconsensual sex and a betrayal of trust ending in nonconsensual sex. they are the same crime, despite the differing circumstances.
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