Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[Athos]

Woman aren't allowed to like a drink and fun in bed...if they do it means they probably consented to sex with someone they don't remember being there...

That's undoubtedly the subtext.

 

[Athos]

That's what I don't understand and I assume there were long legal arguments where judges concluded it was relevant to the case - but from what's reported it doesn't seem to be that important. As I understand it she doesn't remember what happened that night so I would imagine that would be the central area of consideration in the case; not what sort of sex she enjoys.

The point is that it was argued that it made his account of what happened more credible (though I disagree).

 

[Casually Red]

The point is that it was argued that it made his account of what happened more credible (though I disagree).

That and the supposed inability to remember it the next day . Or am I wrong on that detail ?

 

[Athos]

That and the supposed inability to remember it the next day . Or am I wrong on that detail ?

I don't think the fact that she couldn't remember it the next day was ever disputed.

 

[emanymton]

I knew it existed, of course. But the extent of it is what's shocked me. Men and women (whom is previously regarded as pretty sound) down my local calling her a "lying slut" and saying she deserves to go to prison.

Ahh sorry, if you mean people you though better of, that's a bit different. Yeah that's horrible when some one you think is OK comes out with some right shit.

 

[Gromit]

Woman aren't allowed to like a drink and fun in bed...if they do it means they probably consented to sex with someone they don't remember being there...

Well the other problem we have is that everyone is prejudiced as to how someone behaves under the influence by how they behave under the influence.

I have a friend who is the gentlest person in the world. This doesn't change when he drinks lager.
If he drinks cider however he gets violent.

I worked with a girl who was compelled to snog men when drunk. She snogged me once then we had to have the embarrassing 'talk' about what it meant (nothing) in work the next Monday.
Despite this talk we snogged again on a night out.
Then on a third occasion she heading for me for a snog and this time I turned her down having learnt it was just the drink and not her wanting to snog me. She then proceeded to snog some complete stranger in front of me.
She later got a boyfriend but continued to snog strangers (but not sleep with them) when out drunk with us her workmates.
I've never met anyone who behaved like her when drunk since so it's no indication of how people behave when drunk it was just her quirk.

Some people blackout.
Some people pretend that they blackout as that's preferable to admitting to the cringeworthy stuff they do when drunk.

We're all different.

 

[Spymaster]

...the questions about evidence coming to light after the offer of a reward ...

You realise that this isn't the case with the first witness, right? Only the second.

As I posted last night, the first came forward to the police on the day of Evan's conviction and his statement was taken a month later. That was before the reward was offered.

Again, this is all in the transcript that nobody seems to have bothered to read.

 

[bimble]

This is so awful, so counterproductive. There seem to be a lot of people doing what she's doing, well intentioned maybe but exacerbating massively the problem they're trying to help with.

 

[emanymton]

I knew it existed, of course. But the extent of it is what's shocked me. Men and women (whom is previously regarded as pretty sound) down my local calling her a "lying slut" and saying she deserves to go to prison.

What really fucks me of is that these people obviously know nothing of the case. It's just an excuse to vent their mysogyny and hatred.

Anyway Evans himself says this about her

The social media stuff, I don’t condone whatsoever. I don’t agree with it. It’s not been easy for her. I know that. I think it was a situation that got taken out of our hands from an early stage. She never said anybody raped her. She said she had a blackout but that didn’t mean, like it was said in court, that she didn’t consent. My behaviour that night was not acceptable – but it wasn’t a crime.’

From here Ched Evans calls for more education on alcohol and consent

 

[Spymaster]

I knew it existed, of course. But the extent of it is what's shocked me. Men and women (whom is previously regarded as pretty sound) down my local calling her a "lying slut" and saying she deserves to go to prison.

There is a basic but widespread misunderstanding out there that she made a false accusation of rape. Again, people not acquainting themselves with the facts.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is so awful, so counterproductive. There seem to be a lot of people doing what she's doing, well intentioned maybe but exacerbating massively the problem they're trying to help with.

View attachment 94011

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

[Casually Red]

I don't think the fact that she couldn't remember it the next day was ever disputed.

No I meant on the other occasions with these men..or one or other of them .

 

[Casually Red]

There is a basic but widespread misunderstanding out there that she made a false accusation of rape. Again, people not acquainting themselves with the facts.

The fucking media are mostly to blame . More than a few of them are still today claiming she was his accuser in their headlines .

 

[Athos]

You realise that this isn't the case with the first witness, right? Only the second.

As I posted last night, the first came forward to the police on the day of Evan's conviction and his statement was taken a month later. That was before the reward was offered.

Again, this is all in the transcript that nobody seems to have bothered to read.

At the time he came forward, there was no mention of what was later allowed as new evidence; that was added some time later.

Did you read the link?!

 

[Athos]

16 months later, in fact.

 

[Athos]

No I meant on the other occasions with these men..or one or other of them .

The first of the new witnesses statements was confined solely to that point, and was deemed irrelevant and inadmissible.

 

[bimble]

No I meant on the other occasions with these men..or one or other of them .

Yes, one of the men said that she woke up and asked him what had happened the night before.
"On one occasion he said that the woman woke up in the bed next to him the following morning and had no memory of what had happened.
He said: “She asked me if anything had happened the night before. It was like she didn’t know nothing.“I was surprised because I did not think she was that drunk... "
I have no clue if that's true or not, of course, but that's what he said.

 

[Spymaster]

You're both coming across as a bit silly with this spat, on this thread in particular. Especially in light of Trashpony having shared what happened to her.

The spat's not really about this. Bellend knows he's wrong here. He is the biggest cunt in the world, bar none. Our history goes back years.

 

[Spymaster]

....that the evidence came to light after both his account had been made public and after a reward had been offered.

Again, this is a misunderstanding that is dealt with in the judges transcript. The detail that they gave was not reported when they gave their statements.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

At the time he came forward, there was no mention of what was later allowed as new evidence; that was added some time later.

This is explained in the CA's judgment. He made contact with the defence because the complainant had sex with him two weeks after her encounter with Evans and he found this surprising/alarming. The defence solicitor did not ask him for the detail and he didn't volunteer it (which makes sense, given that it was the fact that sex had taken place that concerned him rather than the specifics). The evidence about positions, language and memory loss was only obtained when he was thoroughly interviewed later.

The defence made the point in the CA that, if his evidence was fabricated or part of a conspiracy to exonerate Evans, why didn't he provide all of the detail from the outset? The innocent explanation - that he didn't say because he wasn't asked - is credible.

 

[Spymaster]

I'm not sure that is how the new evidence was used; the witness had made that point in a statement before the first trial, but the defence decided not call him.

This is true, but the appeal court judges knew about it.

 

[Athos]

Again, this is a misunderstanding that is dealt with in the judges transcript. The detail that they gave was not reported when they gave their statements.

Hang on, I'm not sure you've got a handle on what the transcript says. The witnesses first made statements about her liking doggie and being vocal on 09/09/13 and 03/12/15, respectively. Both considerably later than the conviction. Both witnesses failed to mention those points when providing their first statements (years earlier). By the time they made the latter statements, Evans' version of events was on record, and the rewards had been offered.

 

[Spymaster]

Woman aren't allowed to like a drink and fun in bed...if they do it means they probably consented to sex with someone they don't remember being there...

No it doesn't.

It suggests that they may have consented to sex and subsequently forgotten due to black out.

How would you protect against this happening?

 

[Treacle Toes]

No it doesn't.

Read my post in the context of those before it. What I posted is exactly the subtext of the abuse and vitriol spouted against X.

Also note my use of the word 'probably'. People have been far too willing to think the worst of her IMO and yes I believe that is due to misogyny. Whether people are conscious of it or not, it's there.

 

[Spymaster]

Hang on, I'm not sure you've got a handle on what the transcript says. The witnesses first made statements about her liking doggie and being vocal on 09/09/13 and 03/12/15. Both considerably later than the conviction. Both witnesses failed to mention those points when providing their first statements (years earlier). By the time they made the latter statements, Evans' version of events was on record, and the rewards had been offered.

That's not what I meant. It was about what was reported.

You said that doggie style and "fuck me harder" had been reported in the press (made public). They never were. The judges said that that detail was almost identical to Evans' evidence and that it had not been reported at the time of the statements.

 

[Casually Red]

This is so awful, so counterproductive. There seem to be a lot of people doing what she's doing, well intentioned maybe but exacerbating massively the problem they're trying to help with.

View attachment 94011

I said it yesterday evening and got dogs abuse for it but I think this type of response is doing way more harm than good . Sending totally the wrong messages to victims and abusers alike .

 

[Athos]

That's not what I meant. It was about what was reported.

You said that doggie style and "fuck me harder" had been reported in the press. They never were. The judges said that that detail was almost identical to Evans' evidence and that it had not been reported at the time of the statements.

I said made public. It had been. See para 38.

 

[Spymaster]

I said made public. It had been. See para 38.

Yes sorry, I edited after you quoted. Will look at p38.

 

[Athos]

This is explained in the CA's judgment. He made contact with the defence because the complainant had sex with him two weeks after her encounter with Evans and he found this surprising/alarming. The defence solicitor did not ask him for the detail and he didn't volunteer it (which makes sense, given that it was the fact that sex had taken place that concerned him rather than the specifics). The evidence about positions, language and memory loss was only obtained when he was thoroughly interviewed later.

The defence made the point in the CA that, if his evidence was fabricated or part of a conspiracy to exonerate Evans, why didn't he provide all of the detail from the outset? The innocent explanation - that he didn't say because he wasn't asked - is credible.

Another argument could be that this hasn't been the thrust of the defence case at the time of the first statements.

 

[Casually Red]

This just beggars belief .

Evans wants to set himself up as some sort of sex advice guru to young footballers . His advice when they encounter a paralytic drunk woman " think twice " . His advice doesn't seem to be " don't " . Much less " don't hop into a taxi , peer through windows, con your way into hotel rooms , scale fire escapes etc to indulge in depraved antics with vulnerable strangers you never met before ."

And he wasn't " young and stupid " , he was an active fucking predator working in cahoots with scumbags .
One detail I wasn't aware of was one of the others in his company that night assaulted and kicked another woman while they were out on the town before his own escapade . Right bunch of charmers .

Ched Evans calls for more education on alcohol and consent

Also taking a law suit against his original law firm . No idea what that's about . Hope it bankrupts him .