A question for those who still support a Brexit

[ska invita]

No, its not a good thread, it's a transparent 'call out' thread that paints those who, for whatever reason, support leaving the EU as being either so thick that they didn't see citizens rights as being a potentially problematic area, or just racist

Don't mischarecterise please.


The issue of settled status was never mentioned in the referendum, or at least I never heard it. Were you aware of it?

In finding out the implications, 3 months ago, it's completely changed my understanding and comprehension of Brexit.

The question is clear, has it changed anyone elses, and if not, then logic dictates it's because it remains a price worth paying for brexit to pass.

On our politics board that is a topic worthy of discussion, especially considering how much posts brexit generates, the majority avoiding the politics and looking at procedure.

153 urbanites supported Brexit in 2016 in this poll
Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

I think settled status changes everything about brexit, I've been honest about the change in my understanding. Id like to hear from others.

 

[butchersapron]

This time you write your own name on his bit of paper.

 

[andysays]

No, its not a good thread, it's a transparent 'call out' thread that paints those who, for whatever reason, support leaving the EU as being either so thick that they didn't see citizens rights as being a potentially problematic area, or just racist.

That was it - are you thick, or racist.

It also seeks to take a massively complex, pretty much all encompassing relationship between the EU and the UK down to a single issue. Which is vacuous stuff.

As a thread, it's right up there with 'space marines Vs The Empire - who would win?'.

My vote goes to space marines.

 

[butchersapron]

Were you an arsehole before? I've been quite clear that I thought I thought you were an arsehole before but now I have proof that you're an arsehole. And it's changed everything apparently. So vote, are you an arsehole. What a great idea for a thread. Maybe a committee.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Voted Leave but don't consider myself a 'supporter' of Brexit. I'm opposed to bullying migrant workers whether it's the British state doing it or the EU supra-state.

Which option am I meant to pick?

 

[butchersapron]

Voted Leave but don't consider myself a 'supporter' of Brexit. I'm opposed to bullying migrant workers whether it's the British state doing it or the EU supra-state.

Which option am I meant to pick?

I think it's been made very clear

 

[TopCat]

Do remainers have any self awareness?

 

[ska invita]

Voted Leave but don't consider myself a 'supporter' of Brexit. I'm opposed to bullying migrant workers whether it's the British state doing it or the EU supra-state.

Which option am I meant to pick?

Its not bullying exactly. Did you know that 380,000-760,000 (government estimate) people would be made illegal by this process? I didn't. Now knowing this do you still want a version of Brexit that includes this to happen? I don't.
I dont think its a price worth paying - everything else falls to the side based on this, I think new, information.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Its not bullying exactly. Did you know that 380,000-760,000 (government estimate) people would be made illegal by this process? I didn't. Now knowing this do you still want a version of Brexit that includes this to happen? I don't.
I dont think its a price worth paying - everything else falls to the side based on this, I think new, information.

Fine, criminalising migrant workers. It's not new info though is it? The British state and the EU supra-state have been criminalising migrant workers for a long time.

 

[chilango]

I voted Remain.

Is this a price worth paying for that vote of mine?

 

[Pickman's model]

Voted Leave but don't consider myself a 'supporter' of Brexit. I'm opposed to bullying migrant workers whether it's the British state doing it or the EU supra-state.

Which option am I meant to pick?

i'm just against the bullying of workers. doesn't matter if they're migrant or not. doesn't matter if the bullying comes from bosses, co-workers or indeed governments.

if you voted leave but without supporting the obvious result of actually leaving i have to question if you knew what you were doing then and if you know what you are doing now

 

[chilango]

if you voted leave but without supporting the obvious result of actually leaving i have to question if you knew what you were doing then and if you know what you are doing now

Problem with that is this is:

if you voted remain but without supporting the obvious result of actually remaining i have to question if you knew what you were doing then and if you know what you are doing now.

 

[butchersapron]

Problem with that is this is:

if you voted remain but without supporting the obvious result of actually remaining i have to question if you knew what you were doing then and if you know what you are doing now.

Who manipulated them though?

 

[Argonia]

Isn't this the 106th Brexit thread?

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

What a productive discussion.
Whataboutery, defensiveness and insults from all quarters.
Just about sums up the approach of most of the British “left” to “discussing” Brexit and most other things at the moment tbh
Take a look at yourselves.

 

[butchersapron]

What a productive discussion.
Whataboutery, defensiveness and insults from all quarters.
Just about sums up the approach of most of the British “left” to “discussing” Brexit and most other things at the moment tbh
Take a look at yourselves.

And that's just the poll.

 

[redsquirrel]

There are genuine questions about how to organise around immigration, leaving the EU etc. But as other's have said this thread is more of the "how long have you been beating your wife" variety, and contains many of the same false assumptions from last time around.

And let's be honest ska invita you were and are deeply opposed to leaving the EU and the breaking of what you see as freedom of movement. In fact you see (what you call) freedom of movement as such an important issue that you are willing to accept free trade agreements as a price for it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Problem with that is this is:

if you voted remain but without supporting the obvious result of actually remaining i have to question if you knew what you were doing then and if you know what you are doing now.

i'm sure you do. on 23/6/16 i found out i was a reluctant remainer. i voted remain not because of a strange belief in the perfection of the eu, but because i felt that the uk remaining part of it was better than the alternative. i have never denied there are serious problems with the eu. i don't believe that a bosses' eu can offer the sort of society i want. the way the eu treats refugees is disgraceful. how greece has been treated is a travesty. but as far as i could see when i stood in the polling station having marked an x by leave the alternative wasn't any better. the way migrants are treated here is as abominable as the way they're treated elsewhere in the eu, and people with every right to be in the uk have been appallingly treated by the government. i appreciate that leaving the eu offers - or maybe offered - a way in which certain possibilities might be opened up. it seems to me that that is or was rather chimerical. anyway, the polling station staff didn't let me have a new ballot paper but handed me an eraser and i marked my x by remain in ink

 

[chilango]

Who manipulated them though?

Erasmus scholarships?

 

[butchersapron]

What a productive discussion.
Whataboutery, defensiveness and insults from all quarters.
Just about sums up the approach of most of the British “left” to “discussing” Brexit and most other things at the moment tbh
Take a look at yourselves.

It's utterly shameful that it's been leavers who've had to forcefully put fortress europe on the agenda over and over on here. Go back to tolling the boundaries of the new anarchist states in catalonia scotland and rojava. Then have a look at yourself.

 

[chilango]

i'm sure you do. on 23/6/16 i found out i was a reluctant remainer. i voted remain not because of a strange belief in the perfection of the eu, but because i felt that the uk remaining part of it was better than the alternative. i have never denied there are serious problems with the eu. i don't believe that a bosses' eu can offer the sort of society i want. the way the eu treats refugees is disgraceful. how greece has been treated is a travesty. but as far as i could see when i stood in the polling station having marked an x by leave the alternative wasn't any better. the way migrants are treated here is as abominable as the way they're treated elsewhere, and people with every right to be in the uk have been appallingly treated by the government. i appreciate that leaving the eu offers - or maybe offered - a way in which certain possibilities might be opened up. it seems to me that that is or was rather chimerical.

...and the thing is most people appear to be in the same boat regardless of whether they voted remain or leave

A forced choice between two shitty options tainted by the fantasies and fears stoked by their respective campaigns.

People looked for what scraps they could in either option. I don't think it's useful to try and blame them for the rest of the shit associated with whichever way they ended up voting.

 

[butchersapron]

Three years after a thread chilango and 39steps both started for remainers daring you to tell us what is wrong with the EU and what to do about it - pretty much no response at all. Not even a crappy outline of why it's not that great.

 

[Pickman's model]

...and the thing is most people appear to be in the same boat regardless of whether they voted remain or leave

A forced choice between two shitty options tainted by the fantasies and fears stoked by their respective campaigns.

People looked for what scraps they could in either option. I don't think it's useful to try and blame them for the rest of the shit associated with whichever way they ended up voting.

i'm not sure much of what we do here is useful

 

[TopCat]

i'm not sure much of what we do here is useful

Waste work time?

 

[ska invita]

Fine, criminalising migrant workers. It's not new info though is it? The British state and the EU supra-state have been criminalising migrant workers for a long time.

No! Its not criminalising migrant workers!
It's making deportable children, adults, old people whose home is in Britain. It's nothing to do with "workers". I find it telling that you think of anyone here without British citizenship as a migrant worker

 

[TopCat]

Dead babies in the med.

 

[TopCat]

Dead Greeks in the gutter

 

[TopCat]

The oppression of the workers is the EU's bread and butter.

 

[tim]

A thread completely fucked up within a few posts, never mind pages. Not good kebabking.

Oh, do stop remoaning!

 

[andysays]

Dead babies in the med.

They don't count because they're not European.

What we're talking about on this thread, apparently, is dead EUROPEAN babies in the Channel, thrown off the cliffs at Dover by you, me and every other Leave voter