A no limits Olympics thought experiment

[A380]

So drugs, doping and the like in sport. Given some things are allowed, some banned and the like, how could you have a competition to see what the limits of human performance are.

You would need rules, otherwise every event would just turn into a MMA fight and you would need age limits for treatment to try to minimise abuse of children. But how fast could someone built up on steroids with twice the oxygen in their blood and on amphetamine run the 100 meters?

Rules during the events so they are about running or swimming or whatever.
No stored energy (like in sailing now) so you cant turn up with a motor bike (petrol powered or even electric if you had generated the power on a bike for a week before)
No medication or modifications before people are 18 - perhaps a requirement to perform internationally 'clean'
No rules other than safety of others on clothes, footwear and equipment?

Would you participate, would you watch?

 

[MickiQ]

I think we're probably at or very near the peak of human performance now, new records are only set occasionally and are in the order of fractions of a second.
The next big things in boosting human performance are going to be as a result of genetic engineering and/or cybernetic enhancement.
The one thing I will confidently predict is that will be people denouncing it and demanding a ban.

 

[weltweit]

I don't think you are permitting science enough lee way to innovate, imagine Usain Bolt with leg muscles genetically altered to match Kangaroo muscles..

 

[planetgeli]

I think we're probably at or very near the peak of human performance now, new records are only set occasionally and are in the order of fractions of a second.
The next big things in boosting human performance are going to be as a result of genetic engineering and/or cybernetic enhancement.
The one thing I will confidently predict is that will be people denouncing it and demanding a ban.

I don't think the bit about reaching our limits is right. Records certainly are broken regularly still, even if the fractions are getting smaller.

It will never happen but I certainly have a thing for drugs being allowed in sport. If only because it's done so much. What does it feel like to anyone to strip away medals 10 years down the line? Or even 24 hours? Nobody feels good about it. Let them get on with it. I certainly watch cycling with this attitude. And athletics.

 

[weltweit]

There could be a Natural class of athletes which would be amendment free and an Open class in which anything was permitted.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think people often underestimate how effective the drug prohibitions in athletics have been. There are only very marginal gains to be had for a male athlete anyway. The significant gains come for women. But a glance at the record books shows a whole list of world records dating from before out of season testing was brought in in 1990 that still stand.

The following major women's world records were set between 1983 and 1989. Most of the below were set in an even narrower period between 1987 and 1989. Some may never be broken. Every single one of these records is held by a drugs cheat. Adding explosive power was the major thing the drugs brought to women's athletics, as the nature of these records attests.

100m
200m
400m
800m
long jump
high jump
shot put
discus
heptathlon
4x400 m relay

 

[weltweit]

.. Every single one of these records is held by a drugs cheat.

Can you be certain about that?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can you be certain about that?

Yes.

Hence they still stand.

Out of season testing came in in 1990. Suddenly all that record-breaking stopped.

 

[MickiQ]

Only about 20% of the oxygen in each breath is transferred to the blood the rest gets expelled again (one of many reasons that anti-maskers are talking through their arse but I digress) even something as simple as being able to increase that to 30% would give someone an immense boost.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's not doping if somebody re-engineers your DNA so you grow organic rockets in your legs

 

[A380]

It's not doping if somebody re-engineers your DNA so you grow organic rockets in your legs

Not sure how that would help...

 

[planetgeli]

There could be a Natural class of athletes which would be amendment free and an Open class in which anything was permitted.

The trouble, I think, ignoring health and safety, is that the Open drug class would still be less prestigious so drug 'cheats' would still try to cheat and you'd still have testing, doubt and controversy.

I advocate a free for all.

 

[planetgeli]

I think people often underestimate how effective the drug prohibitions in athletics have been. There are only very marginal gains to be had for a male athlete anyway. The significant gains come for women. But a glance at the record books shows a whole list of world records dating from before out of season testing was brought in in 1990 that still stand.

The following major women's world records were set between 1983 and 1989. Most of the below were set in an even narrower period between 1987 and 1989. Some may never be broken. Every single one of these records is held by a drugs cheat. Adding explosive power was the major thing the drugs brought to women's athletics, as the nature of these records attests.

100m
200m
400m
800m
long jump
high jump
shot put
discus
heptathlon
4x400 m relay

Out of interest, how many of those records are from 'stables' known or suspected to be connected to drug cheating? I mean I'm assuming a lot, and I'm thinking of East Germany and others like them.

But there are 'freaks'. I don't think Bob Beamon took drugs. He just got one incredibly lucky jump where everything went right and was in his favour. And it took 23 years to beat it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can you be certain about that?

To expand, it's not just guesswork or circumstantial. The likes of Marita Koch have been proven to have cheated. Cheating was run by the authorities in the Eastern Bloc. We also know that Florence Griffith cheated, and it almost certainly killed her. Jackie Joyner has never admitted it. But she conveniently retired as soon as out of season testing came in in 1989, aged just 27 and at the peak of her powers, coming back in 1992 but never reaching the same heights again.

The allegations are widespread, and it's naive tbh to disbelieve them. eg

Conte says coverup protected big stars at Seoul Games

In both the US and the Eastern Bloc at the time, officials colluded and covered up.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Out of interest, how many of those records are from 'stables' known or suspected to be connected to drug cheating? I mean I'm assuming a lot, and I'm thinking of East Germany and others like them.

But there are 'freaks'. I don't think Bob Beamon took drugs. He just got one incredibly lucky jump where everything went right and was in his favour. And it took 23 years to beat it.

Either eastern bloc or Flo-Jo or Jackie Joyner.

So all of them.

Out of season testing came in in 1989-90. That ain't a coincidence.

 

[bellaozzydog]

So drugs, doping and the like in sport. Given some things are allowed, some banned and the like, how could you have a competition to see what the limits of human performance are.

You would need rules, otherwise every event would just turn into a MMA fight and you would need age limits for treatment to try to minimise abuse of children. But how fast could someone built up on steroids with twice the oxygen in their blood and on amphetamine run the 100 meters?

Rules during the events so they are about running or swimming or whatever.
No stored energy (like in sailing now) so you cant turn up with a motor bike (petrol powered or even electric if you had generated the power on a bike for a week before)
No medication or modifications before people are 18 - perhaps a requirement to perform internationally 'clean'
No rules other than safety of others on clothes, footwear and equipment?

Would you participate, would you watch?

It would need selective breeding to maximise it. No point with half measures

Like the victorians did with dogs from wolves to chiuhuahua and everything in between

plus gene splicing animals to humans

I may be having some sort of 200AD breakdown

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Humans with no limbs apart from legs, not even a torso or head, just a hole for predigested nutrients, a brain which is a balance system and can tell where a finish line is, a short intestine to absorb the nutrients, the rest is leg muscles.

Bred for different levels of endurance - some are short-distance, some long.

They have the right DNA though.

 

[planetgeli]

I think people often underestimate how effective the drug prohibitions in athletics have been. There are only very marginal gains to be had for a male athlete anyway. The significant gains come for women. But a glance at the record books shows a whole list of world records dating from before out of season testing was brought in in 1990 that still stand.

The following major women's world records were set between 1983 and 1989. Most of the below were set in an even narrower period between 1987 and 1989. Some may never be broken. Every single one of these records is held by a drugs cheat. Adding explosive power was the major thing the drugs brought to women's athletics, as the nature of these records attests.

100m
200m
400m
800m
long jump
high jump
shot put
discus
heptathlon
4x400 m relay

Actually that's hilarious. I had to go check. The High Jump will be beaten soon. They're 1cm away.

The rest of them? Laughably massive gaps. The best discus throw in the last 25 years only comes 15th in all-time records. The gaps are enormous.No-one within even a tenth of a second over 100 or a quarter of a second over 200, of Flo-Jo.

Nobody died though.

Oh, wait.

 

[WouldBe]

Not strictly on topic but I was thinking the other day about the Olympics and covid spread. Solution - everyone competes in zorbing balls.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Actually that's hilarious. I had to go check. The High Jump will be beaten soon. They're 1cm away.

The rest of them? Laughably massive gaps. The best discus throw in the last 25 years only comes 15th in all-time records. The gaps are enormous.No-one within even a tenth of a second over 100 or a quarter of a second over 200, of Flo-Jo.

Nobody died though.

Oh, wait.

Everyone always thinks of the East Germans when it comes to 1980s drugs cheating. Or Kratochvilova. But it was every bit as deeply embedded in the US at the time as well, with widespread official collusion. Perhaps not as bureaucratically clinical as the East Germans, but just as widespread. It was an extension of the Cold War, effectively. I think some people are still in denial about that. Carl Lewis and his braces? Oh he just wanted to straighten his teeth. Some of the hypocrisy from certain quarters wrt Russia's recent misdemeanours has been pretty stomach-turning.

Must be pretty dispiriting, tbh, for current athletes looking at those records. They're not competing against that.

 

[Dandred]

Why not have an Olympics in which athletes are free to take any drugs they want to, to enhance their performance?

 

[scifisam]

Why not have an Olympics in which athletes are free to take any drugs they want to, to enhance their performance?

You'd end up with a lot of dead athletes.

 

[Raheem]

You'd end up with a lot of dead athletes.

Really, though?

 

[Badgers]

 

[marty21]

To expand, it's not just guesswork or circumstantial. The likes of Marita Koch have been proven to have cheated. Cheating was run by the authorities in the Eastern Bloc. We also know that Florence Griffith cheated, and it almost certainly killed her. Jackie Joyner has never admitted it. But she conveniently retired as soon as out of season testing came in in 1989, aged just 27 and at the peak of her powers, coming back in 1992 but never reaching the same heights again.

The allegations are widespread, and it's naive tbh to disbelieve them. eg

Conte says coverup protected big stars at Seoul Games

In both the US and the Eastern Bloc at the time, officials colluded and covered up.

Jackie Joyner won stuff in the 90s, Olympic & World Championship golds.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not strictly on topic but I was thinking the other day about the Olympics and covid spread. Solution - everyone competes in zorbing balls.

The archery would be good for a laugh.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Jackie Joyner won stuff in the 90s, Olympic & World Championship golds.

Yes. But she didn't get near her pre-out of season drugs tests world records. Nobody ever has done.

 

[A380]

Why not have an Olympics in which athletes are free to take any drugs they want to, to enhance their performance?

Someone should start a thread about that…

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You'd end up with a lot of dead athletes.

Yeah. I get why some people think 'fuck it' wrt drugs, but among other things sports are supposed to be inspirational and aspirational. This would be neither.

A Druggie Olympics? Would you have kids turning up at athletics clubs and asking what their steroids programmes are like? Note from your parents to say you're allowed to take drugs? It's a non-starter.

 

[A380]

Yeah. I get why some people think 'fuck it' wrt drugs, but among other things sports are supposed to be inspirational and aspirational. This would be neither.

A Druggie Olympics? Would you have kids turning up at athletics clubs and asking what their steroids programmes are like? Note from your parents to say you're allowed to take drugs? It's a non-starter.

Someone should start a thread about that and invite suggestions about how to protect children in the first post…