5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

[Spymaster]

Jesus fuck - another one (in Bristol)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-25023176

Are all of these people being crushed by left turning HGV's?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Are all of these people being crushed by left turning HGV's?

It's not clear yet.

The problem with these accidents is that the primary witness is dead. It seems there is often little other evidence, unless several bystanders were watching closely.

 

[8ball]

Are all of these people being crushed by left turning HGV's?

No!! They're lurching to the RIGHT!!!

 

[gentlegreen]

For a couple of hundred quid you could have a video camera aimed down the left hand side with built-in proximity detection.

It's old tech.

That way there would be a video record of what happened too.

Make it as compulsory as a tachograph.

That's what I would do out of my own pocket if I found myself being forced to drive one of these lethal vehicles - along with strobes and beepers wired to the indicators.

 

[8ball]

That's nice in the meantime but I think ultimately having things that go fast and weigh many tons mixing it in the same space with humans on bits of metal tubing and wire is what we need to change.

 

[co-op]

Is it New Labour to reflexively blame HGV drivers and Lib Dem to blame car drivers?

New Labour shat their pants when the hauliers had a go at them over the Fuel Duty escalator in about 1998 as I remember and spent the next 10 years desperately placating them so the first bits wrong. But yes, to your broader point, private cars are basically right wing. Next.

 

[co-op]

Why not come out all the way and say that only Tories drive cars?

Cos it'd be wrong?

 

[TotallyGreatGuy]

If I listen to music whilst cycling I never use headphones, I only ever use the left earphone so I can still hear traffic (which is almost always is to my right).

 

[Orang Utan]

Look at this shit article on the BBC website:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24998730

None of the solutions involve separating bikes and cars at junctions, or building infrastructure (apart from the slightly fantastical 'Build Elevated Cycling Routes').

One of the reasons media coverage of the cycling debate has got better is because many journalists are cyclists themselves (e.g. Peter Walker at the Guardian), or work with plenty of cyclists (Evening Standard.) But rubbish articles like this are still being penned by people who appear to know little about what cycling in London is like.

I did a real LOL to the body armour suggestion.
What kind of body armour deflects a 15 tonne truck?
The only thing I can think of is that roboexoskeleton Ripley kills the queen with in Aliens

 

[8ball]

But yes, to your broader point, private cars are basically right wing.

That didn't take much coaxing.

Are bicycles left wing? Roller skates?
What about VW microbuses with flowers painted on them?

Does the colour matter?

 

[co-op]

Are bicycles left wing?

Well as Jose Antonio Viera Gallo said, "el socialismo sólo puede llegar en bicicleta".

 

[co-op]

Know what I mean?

 

[8ball]

Know what I mean?

I'm hoping not as a lycra-clad braying cunt on a fixie.

 

[laptop]

Laptop, you know better than most that 'common sense' can be a terrible guide. What evidence can you produce? What have you learned from this thread about the nature of the problem?

Erm... for what do you seek evidence?

 

[gentlegreen]

If I listen to music whilst cycling I never use headphones, I only ever use the left earphone so I can still hear traffic (which is almost always is to my right).

That's what's good about the KSC75s - separate ears ..

 

[Winot]

I'll go so far as to say that it is a Tory attitude to reflexively blame cyclist behaviour for cyclist deaths on the roads. It is similar to the attitude that sees the unemployed blamed for their joblessness, and other attitudes such as those that place blame for crime levels at the door of single mothers.

That is archetypally tory in its approach - ignore the collective responsibility and the potential for solutions at the collective societal level; don't look beyond individuals whenever looking at a problem or apportioning blame; deny responsibility. Oh, and simply ignore any evidence that contradicts your position.

This article makes a similar point, although not so explicitly party political:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...oad-deaths-bike-helmets-headphones?CMP=twt_gu

 

[fredfelt]

Why not come out all the way and say that only Tories drive cars?

If you are interested on how cars have changed societies, and therefore people's perspectives you could start on the wiki page 'Effects on the automotive on societies' - or read this extract from an old Monbiot piece which touches on the subject.

It is strange to see how the car has been overlooked as an agent of political change. We know that the breaking of the unions, the dismantling of the welfare state and the sale of council houses that Margaret Thatcher pioneered made us more individualistic. But the way in which the transition from individualism to the next phase of neoliberalism – libertarianism – was assisted by her transport policies has been largely ignored. She knew what she was doing. She spoke of “the great car-owning democracy”, and asserted that “a man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure”(13). Her road-building programme was an exercise in both civil and social engineering. “Economics are the method”, she told us, “the object is to change the soul.”(14) The slowly shifting consciousness of the millions who spend much of their day sitting in traffic makes interventionist government ever harder. The difference between the age of Herbert Morrison and the age of Peter Mandelson can be, in part, accounted for by the motorcar.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can see the sense in that, although it shouldn't be overstated - cars have brought a lot of people increased freedom. But yes, it reduces problems down to the level of the individual - millions of individuals who see their problems with their cars as theirs and theirs alone to solve.

 

[fredfelt]

I can see the sense in that, although it shouldn't be overstated - cars have brought a lot of people increased freedom. But yes, it reduces problems down to the level of the individual - millions of individuals who see their problems with their cars as theirs and theirs alone to solve.

Perhaps it should be overstated - in the words of Raoul Vaneigem we have this little gem. He considered the car an 'alienating gadget' which 'enables us to get to work and consume, pollute, destroy the countryside, and save some empty time and kill ourselves'.

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps it should be overstated - in the words of Raoul Vaneigem we have this little gem. He considered the car an 'alienating gadget' which 'enables us to get to work and consume, pollute, destroy the countryside, and save some empty time and kill ourselves'.

and of course it makes people free every bank holiday to go where everyone else is going. it's not like the car gets you everywhere either, it only goes where there's a road.

 

[fredfelt]

and of course it makes people free every bank holiday to go where everyone else is going. it's not like the car gets you everywhere either, it only goes where there's a road.

I've got a big, inefficient, estate car outside. It is however useful for putting bikes in.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've got a big, inefficient, estate car outside. It is however useful for putting bikes in.

how many can you fit in there?

 

[8ball]

I can see the sense in that, although it shouldn't be overstated - cars have brought a lot of people increased freedom.

INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM!! Not collectively mandated freedom!

 

[fredfelt]

how many can you fit in there?

Two - but two huge bikes suitable for someone who's 6'7". I was without a car for years but a mix of injury and change of circumstance lead me to get one.

Anyway there's a lot of truth in the last quote I posted. The car has opened up the wilder places of this country, while at the same time destroying the character and wildness of these places.

 

[Pickman's model]

in the angel: cops giving a cyclist a fixed penalty notice for going through a red light. looked in the sky for flying pigs or blue moon.

 

[gentlegreen]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[hash tag]

We wouldn't be having these arguments without the CS plan. It's a stepping stone to better cycle infrastructure. It a rough way of leading to a safer future. That's why TFL did it, not because it was ideal but it was fairly easy to do and didn't cost too much. It moved things forward and now look how mobilised people are !

I think in the region of £20M per superhighway is a bit more than didnt cost too much. TFL consulted one or two cycle gropus before going ahead and then chose to ignore any recomendations.

Cycling has incresed on the roads a great deal since early 2000 thanks in no part to the CS's. I would like to think critical mass played its part is raising cycle araweness.

 

[Sunray]

TFL have made this to show just how badly designed lorries are

http://dutchbikeguy.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/ultra-shocking-video-about-lorry-blind-spots/

They are like they are for no other reason than some laws dictating their overall length. They should define the trailer and cab length separately so manufacturers don't make them as thin as possible.

Construction lorries its just a cost thing and construction site access. Could be a bit longer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23152918

 

[artyfarty]

My two pennorth worth on earphones when riding.

I notice when I ride with earphones in, my general awareness drops.
It's not so much that you cant hear the traffic, it's more that it encourages you to be less aware by insulating you from your surroundings. I have definitely noticed that I have more near misses whilst plugged in, which is why I dont do it any more.
Also I like talking to other cyclists now and again.

 

[co-op]

INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM!! Not collectively mandated freedom!

The illusion of freedom, not actual freedom; the perfect metaphor for consumer capitalism.