2 Arrests at Brixton Reclaim Your Food

[shygirl]

someone suggested to police that they seek closure of KFC and mcdonalds on grounds that they attract a fair number of dealers and users!
Interestingly, they told us they have issued warrants to KFC, mcdonalds and speedy noodles over the past few years, presumably telling them to get rid of their more dodgy customers.

 

[Gramsci]

You can FOI any public body.

Except Northern Rock

 

[Pip]

someone suggested to police that they seek closure of KFC and mcdonalds on grounds that they attract a fair number of dealers and users!
Interestingly, they told us they have issued warrants to KFC, mcdonalds and speedy noodles over the past few years, presumably telling them to get rid of their more dodgy customers.

How, exactly, are they supposed to do that?
If the police recognise the problem of dealers using KFC and Maccy D's as their unofficial headquaters is bad enough to warrant erm, warrants then why can't they send the volunteer plods in to at least show their faces, rather than expect the poor sods who work in these places to sort it out?

 

[shygirl]

I agree entirely, wouldn't expect staff to even have to think about doing this. If the police know who they are, surely they should be the ones doing somehting about it as opposed to employees of food shops with no experience in spotting 'dodgy' customers.

 

[Gramsci]

Ive emailed my Councillors about this.The Tate Gardens is in Coldharbour Ward (just).So its in my ward.Here is what I emailed.Feel free to use it if u want.

Dear Councillors,
I am writing to express my concern at the recent police action in Tate Gardens against the "Brixton Reclaim Your Food Collective" on Sunday 2nd March.The BRYFC have been running a weekly peaceful event on Sundays where they give out Vegan food and fix bikes.Two arrests where made asa result of a refusal to comply with a "Dispersal Order" placed on the group.This was issued under Section 5 Public Order offence-defined as causing harassment,distress or alarm.The justification behind the arrests/Dispersal Order was that by giving out free food a climate was being made that encouraged drug dealingand that the profits of local businesses were being affected (KFC,McDonalds).However giving out free food is not an offence in itself nor does it cause distress etc.The argument that it may lead to something that does cause distress (ie drug dealing) is not sufficient to use Section 5.The use of Dispersal Orders in this designated zone is supposed to deal with drug dealing in Tate Gardens.I see no justification for this extension of its use.If of course any individual is breaking a law then the police can arrest them.I object to this blanket approach against a specific group who IMO arent causing "distress or harassment".

Also the Police turned up in a mobile surveillance,2 cars and 2 vans.I would have thought the police have more important things to doand this is an overreaction.Ive recently been to several meetings about Future Brixton where "protecting Brixtons unique identity" "creating new public spaces to meet and rest" and "enable (new Central Square) the space to be used for community,cultural activites and public art" was promoted.Also an important element in the FB masterplan is a sustainable green Brixton.Seems to me that BRYFC are making a good community use of the space and are promoting green sustainable living.At the FB meetings I attended concerns where raised by residents that Brixton could be "sanitised".

I have no connection with BRYFC other than Ive seen them there and they havent caused my any "distress".

The Coldharbour ward Councillors are:

Donatus danyanwu@lambeth.gov.uk
Sharon smalley@lambeth.gov.uk
Rachel rheywood@lambeth.gov.uk

 

[Gramsci]

Didn't quite mean that, gramsci, cos that would suggest they've met, agreed stuff, etc. Guess he was just aware that the council aren't happy.

Fair enough i kept off that side of it in my email.Though i cant always tell what my Councillors think about this kind of thing sometimes.They may have had complaints i dont know.But thats one of the reasons it may be worth emailing -that we dont all think the Food Collective is a problem. I also think its a civil liberty issue.ASBOs and Dispersal Zones are prone to "function creep" -ie they start to deal with one issue but are so flexible that they can be directed at groups like this.

Im not even that green but its the civil liberty issue that really gets me.Plus anyone who is slightly "different" seems to be increasingly having to look over the shoulder in this country.

 

[Gramsci]

well blow me Cllr Rachel Heywood already got back to say she will raise the matter with the police.

 

[slcr]

Wow!

 

[co-op]

Fair enough i kept off that side of it in my email.Though i cant always tell what my Councillors think about this kind of thing sometimes.They may have had complaints i dont know.But thats one of the reasons it may be worth emailing -that we dont all think the Food Collective is a problem. I also think its a civil liberty issue.ASBOs and Dispersal Zones are prone to "function creep" -ie they start to deal with one issue but are so flexible that they can be directed at groups like this.

Im not even that green but its the civil liberty issue that really gets me.Plus anyone who is slightly "different" seems to be increasingly having to look over the shoulder in this country.

First off - well done for getting onto your councillors - I live in Stockwell so it's not directly my ward - but I am still going to write and complain.

Secondly, I totally agree with you that this is not primarily a "green issue", a "vegan issue" or a "reclaiming issue"; it's a basic civil liberties issue. This is simply not the police's business until they are getting serious feedback that it is. There should be a presumption in favour of citizens taking peaceful, non-disruptive, pro-social actions whenever and wherever they want - and there should be a huge onus on the police to prove that they have the right to get involved, not this casual banning. Who the hell do they think they are?

I read on these boards editor's almost daily (or nightly) problems with junkies on the Moorlands estate - that's a 3 minute walk up Coldharbour Lane - why aren't the police doing something about that instead of pissing about with a bunch of freegans doing something interesting and useful?

 

[colacubes]

well blow me Cllr Rachel Heywood already got back to say she will raise the matter with the police.

She's very good and very helpful Nice change

 

[GuruMeditation]

well blow me Cllr Rachel Heywood already got back to say she will raise the matter with the police.

Result

 

[CPCG]

Just to say that CPCG has had a conversation with the police regarding this, making the following points.

1. The Dispersal Zone in the residential streets (Rushcroft, Saltoun, Mervan. Kellet) undoubtedly was policed as promised and delivered welcome relief to the residents there. Much has been achieved since it was introduced last June and credit is due to the police for that.

2. If there were clear evidence that the presence of Reclaim the Food were drawing dealers and chaotic users back into the area, then there would undoubtedly be community support for encouraging them take their food distribution somewhere else. But it isn't clear that there is such evidence at this stage.

3. The extension of the Dispersal Power from addressing anti-social behaviour to dispersing people who might attract people who might engage in anti-social behaviour is a matter of concern. Part of the concern must be that the effective and well accounted use of the power hitherto, which has received support from the community, might be tarnished by any drift in objectives and support correspondingly diminished.

We were assured that the police action was not in response to any Council request, although concern about ASB in the town centre generally has been a concern of the police, the Council and the local community for a long time and well documented. The police officer who spoke to shygirl may well have been referring to this general concern.

If anyone wishes to speak directly to the police about this issue, the next monthly CPCG meeting is at:
1st April
6:30 pm
Christ Church, Highland Road, Gipsy Hill SE19
Guns and Gangs Commission

The meeting will form part of Safer Lambeth's consultation on the Action Plan emerging from the Guns and Gangs Commission.

Additionally, we understand that there is a meeting of Brixton Town Centre Forum this evening at the Karibu Centre at 7 pm. It is usual for the police to attend.

In fairness, in respect of comments above regarding the priorities of allocating police resources, it is worth noting that the murder in Raeyburn Road would have immediately been the subject of investigation by a specialist team from New Scotland Yard whilst the policing of dealing in the Town Centre is a 24/7 activity by both uniformed and plain clothed police, against which the deployment to Reclaim the Food for a few hours on Sunday afternoon would be small beer.

 

[pootle]

If the police recognise the problem of dealers using KFC and Maccy D's as their unofficial headquaters is bad enough to warrant erm, warrants then why can't they send the volunteer plods in to at least show their faces, rather than expect the poor sods who work in these places to sort it out?

I stongly suspect some of those "poor sods" who work there are involved. I've been in KFC a couple of times for example when I've seen various people hand over money to the security guard in a corner and something being noted down. What's that all about then?

 

[untethered]

Centre table was a glorious 'f- pie', so named because of a lovingly designed vagina on the pastry marking international women's day.

I don't mind people having a civilised picnic but if that isn't an offence against public decency it certainly should be.

 

[Bob]

Except Northern Rock

Well the Lib Dems (and Tories I think) argued that you should be able to.

And you can FOI the government departments that are managing Northern Rock.

 

[tarannau]

I don't mind people having a civilised picnic but if that isn't an offence against public decency it certainly should be.

What? In untethered's brave new world, there'll be a new law specifically created to prohibit the consumption of baked goods resembling genitalia.

Frankly, I reckon even the humble cornish pasty, with its gnarled edge/dodgy looking hand grip, could be at risk...

 

[Bob]

In fairness, in respect of comments above regarding the priorities of allocating police resources, it is worth noting that the murder in Raeyburn Road would have immediately been the subject of investigation by a specialist team from New Scotland Yard whilst the policing of dealing in the Town Centre is a 24/7 activity by both uniformed and plain clothed police, against which the deployment to Reclaim the Food for a few hours on Sunday afternoon would be small beer.

Err - but Lambeth's currently around 90 police below its assessed needs - so wasting time is a really stupid thing to do.

And I presume that the local police do get involved in enquiries so it's not as if there's no input from them to the investigation is there?

 

[untethered]

What? In untethered's brave new world, there'll be a new law specifically created to prohibit the consumption of baked goods resembling genitalia.

There's no need to waste Parliament's time with a Pastry Parts Bill. Just crack down on all suggestive forms, no matter what their substance.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I don't mind people having a civilised picnic but if that isn't an offence against public decency it certainly should be.

How can you find a depiction of a vagina offensive?

 

[untethered]

How can you find a depiction of a vagina offensive?

It's inherently offensive. They're not called private parts for nothing, you know.

 

[sleaterkinney]

It's inherently offensive. They're not called private parts for nothing, you know.

Why do you find it offensive?

 

[tarannau]

There's no need to waste Parliament's time with a Pastry Parts Bill. Just crack down on all suggestive forms, no matter what their substance.

I got a misshapen carrot from one of Brixton's food stores yesterday. It wasn't just a carrot, it was an M&S carrot that looked like an angry dog's cock.

Would you ban disgusting suggestive veg like this?

 

[toggle]

I don't mind people having a civilised picnic but if that isn't an offence against public decency it certainly should be.

you are so prudish you have to edit FANNY out of a quote and you expect us to take you seriously?

 

[shygirl]

I don't mind people having a civilised picnic but if that isn't an offence against public decency it certainly should be.

I couldn't wait to get stuck in. reckon you're just jealous you didn't get some....

 

[Pip]

I stongly suspect some of those "poor sods" who work there are involved. I've been in KFC a couple of times for example when I've seen various people hand over money to the security guard in a corner and something being noted down. What's that all about then?

Well that's interesting. I'd forgotten KFC had security guards, I was thinking about the people behind the counters.

 

[smokedout]

I've been in KFC a couple of times for example when I've seen various people hand over money to the security guard in a corner and something being noted down. What's that all about then?

thats about being a grass that is

 

[Dan U]

What? In untethered's brave new world, there'll be a new law specifically created to prohibit the consumption of baked goods resembling genitalia.

Frankly, I reckon even the humble cornish pasty, with its gnarled edge/dodgy looking hand grip, could be at risk...

if my, erm, friend put my i mean his cock in a moderately warm pie, would it be a crime?

i, erm, we, need to know

 

[Gramsci]

There's no need to waste Parliament's time with a Pastry Parts Bill. Just crack down on all suggestive forms, no matter what their substance.

You are having a laugh arent you?

A few weeks ago the religious nutters outside KFC on saturday had a model of a foetus on display as they were "right to lifers". Perhaps I should complain to cops about that being shown in a public place?

 

[Gramsci]

Well the Lib Dems (and Tories I think) argued that you should be able to.

And you can FOI the government departments that are managing Northern Rock.

Yes I know i wasnt having a go at your party.

And Ming has always been good on Iraq unlike a lot of the Labour.

 

[Gramsci]

First off - well done for getting onto your councillors - I live in Stockwell so it's not directly my ward - but I am still going to write and complain.

QUOTE]


Thanks Ive had no reply yet.When i do ill post up.It would be good if others complained as Im sticking my head over the parapet doing this.