ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
rachamim18 said:
Go take your thorazine. Sounds like you need it.
17 I.D.F. soldiers on rape charges
- Thread starter cemertyone
- Start date
Go take your thorazine. Sounds like you need it.
Methadone, not thorazine.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rachamim18 said:
Better still, you should make that a largactil fizz, for that real sparkle.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
rachamim18 said:
Hard to gauge which one is worse.
Panda: I take it then that you are totally unaware as to the science of opioid substitution therapy.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
rachamim18 said:
I've lost 2 friends to respiratory/pulmonary complications from methadone "substitution therapy" in the last 20 years. For me it's enough to know that those of my friends who continued using smack are all still alive, as are those people I know who've been prescribed thorazine (prescribed in Britain as "largactyl").
So you "take" what you want. I believe the evidence I see before me, which tells me that a maintenance dose of heroin (whether "street" or prescribed) is "safer" than methadone.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
ViolentPanda said:
Trust R18 to make that sort of sweeping statement - eh? He's the only one in the world who has any knowledge of opiate use.
Pandas: Since this thread is shot to hell anyway I will respond. of course have no idea what your friends died from,etc. However, I am certainly well versed in all aspects of both the protocol and the substance and can assure you that when taken under medical supervison, and barring any allergies, the only danger is from deliberate misuse. To suggest that any illicit substance could ever be safer than a government approved and supervised controlled substance is not only the epitome of ignorance but dangerous as well. Of course, if you would like to provide evidence wither via an iniated thread in the Drugs Forum or via p.m. I would love to discuss it with you. Of course this will be ignored but I felt it the adult thing to do since you at least feign an interest in the subject.
Nino, other than your typical jocking nonsense, was the above sweeping enough for you? Glad to help feed your obsession You must have a thing for blue eyes.
Nino, other than your typical jocking nonsense, was the above sweeping enough for you? Glad to help feed your obsession You must have a thing for blue eyes.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rachamim18 said:
Like I said, you're the only one with knowledge of opiate use and like he issue of the Middle East, if it doens't conform to the contours of your ideological perspective then it's "anti-semitic".
"Jocking" doesn't exist. You invented that. I know of no Americans who use that word.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
As I mentioned above, both had "respiratory/pulmonary complications" that resulted in death, not anaphylaxis, but good old-fashioned compromising of organ function.rachamim18 said:
I'm sure you're as much an expert in methadone use as you are in all subjects you hold forth on (how is it the IDF are relaxed enough to let a methadone user fulfil his reserve duty by the way?).
Taking your extensive knowledge as read, how is it that you're not familiar with the fact that methadone most often causes death through respiratory and pulmonary complications, even when adhering to a strict, medically-supervised regime?
I haven't suggested that it is safer, you schlemiel. I've stated that in my direct experience two friends have died directly from methadone use (medically supervised), while the 5 heroin users I know (all of whom have been either constant or "chaotic" users for the last 20+ years, are still alive.
Yet you're such an adult that you didn't even read my post properly and made assumptions based on your own prejudices.
You shouldn't play the maturity card unless you're mature enough yourself, Rachamim.
Pardon me if I decline the opportunity to massage your vanity, but given your low credibility amongst drug forum users, I'd rather not engage on a discussion about methadone with someone whose grasp of the subject has been described to me by drugs forum regulars in very unflattering terms.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I've always wondered that too.
Panda: No indication at all that methadone has ever caused anything of the sort in and of itself. Of course if you have some peer reviewed information to back up your subjective bias I would love to discuss it.
Expert? Well, let's see...I hold forth on so much: Opiates and opioids, and Israel and the Mid-East. Yes, I see your point. Actually, aside from being on methadone for 13 years I was compelled to take chem and physiology in university so I am able to [slightly] add to my subjective experience with regards to methadone. Sorry if that disturbs you.
As for my Reserve duty, it is no problem at all. In fact, Israel holds no bias as to the regimen. It is treated like a health problem. As long as I am certified fit for Regular Duty, I am good to go. I am on what is called "Medical Maintenance." I get 6 weeks worth of medication at a time, unlike many in America and elsewhere who are forced to go to a clinic everyday, etc. I am also Hep-C positive, and this also is not an impediment. IF I wanted, I could claim exemptions on both and be relased from Reserve altogether but since regulations were reformatted this year, making 40 the last mandatory year for Infantry, I am fine with it. Gee, who would have ever thought you cared? I am touched sweety. Actually, I am not suprised on your ignorance concerning the IDF seeing as it gels perfectly with most of your other "views." P.S.: I also served a prison sentence in Israel for narcotics, and it did not inerfere with my status, so that is how much you know about Israel and the culture there.
Now, as to your claim of pulmonary and respiratory complications, you are referring only to faulty UK statistics. If you review that findings, you will see that no tox screens were included, nor were any personal case histories. As such, it ignores the unfortunate prevalence of poly-substance abuse among methadone clients. As with any powerful depressant, when taken in conjunction with other controlled substances, both licit and illicit, methadone is extremely volatile.
Yes, you DID say [in another manner] that it was subjective experience when offering that maintanence doses of heroin [licit and illicit] were safer than methadone. However, you said it...That is the bottom line. I do not see the qualification as relevant. The statement is what it is, and it is most definitely reckless as well as incorrect.
As to the maturity card, read the preceeding again wise elder.
Now I have low credibility among Drug Forum users? Who cares? I have posted there twice since August I think. Drug Forum regulars belittle my grasp of methadone? Oooohhh, that smarts! Even if I had any idea what you are on about. You are something else. There are alot like you though, fighting anything that moves. More power to you, that armchair must get stale after a while.
Nino: Aside from your 99% filler as usual: www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/158426-1.html
Have fun, just goes to show how little you do know.
[Editedas usual for spelling]
Expert? Well, let's see...I hold forth on so much: Opiates and opioids, and Israel and the Mid-East. Yes, I see your point. Actually, aside from being on methadone for 13 years I was compelled to take chem and physiology in university so I am able to [slightly] add to my subjective experience with regards to methadone. Sorry if that disturbs you.
As for my Reserve duty, it is no problem at all. In fact, Israel holds no bias as to the regimen. It is treated like a health problem. As long as I am certified fit for Regular Duty, I am good to go. I am on what is called "Medical Maintenance." I get 6 weeks worth of medication at a time, unlike many in America and elsewhere who are forced to go to a clinic everyday, etc. I am also Hep-C positive, and this also is not an impediment. IF I wanted, I could claim exemptions on both and be relased from Reserve altogether but since regulations were reformatted this year, making 40 the last mandatory year for Infantry, I am fine with it. Gee, who would have ever thought you cared? I am touched sweety. Actually, I am not suprised on your ignorance concerning the IDF seeing as it gels perfectly with most of your other "views." P.S.: I also served a prison sentence in Israel for narcotics, and it did not inerfere with my status, so that is how much you know about Israel and the culture there.
Now, as to your claim of pulmonary and respiratory complications, you are referring only to faulty UK statistics. If you review that findings, you will see that no tox screens were included, nor were any personal case histories. As such, it ignores the unfortunate prevalence of poly-substance abuse among methadone clients. As with any powerful depressant, when taken in conjunction with other controlled substances, both licit and illicit, methadone is extremely volatile.
Yes, you DID say [in another manner] that it was subjective experience when offering that maintanence doses of heroin [licit and illicit] were safer than methadone. However, you said it...That is the bottom line. I do not see the qualification as relevant. The statement is what it is, and it is most definitely reckless as well as incorrect.
As to the maturity card, read the preceeding again wise elder.
Now I have low credibility among Drug Forum users? Who cares? I have posted there twice since August I think. Drug Forum regulars belittle my grasp of methadone? Oooohhh, that smarts! Even if I had any idea what you are on about. You are something else. There are alot like you though, fighting anything that moves. More power to you, that armchair must get stale after a while.
Nino: Aside from your 99% filler as usual: www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/158426-1.html
Have fun, just goes to show how little you do know.
[Editedas usual for spelling]
Could I just interject for a moment, regarding the class status within the IDF, I can only presume that the Israeli officer that shot the television cameraman is of the correct and acceptable status to kill another human being but being lower riff raf is the norm to rape a young girl.
I would infer from that, some structure is in place that allows the IDF to do exactly what they like to whom they like and when they like.
And you are trying to justify that?
I would infer from that, some structure is in place that allows the IDF to do exactly what they like to whom they like and when they like.
And you are trying to justify that?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"The effects of methadone and its role in fatalities" Corkery, Schifano et al 2004 for example?. My two late friends' cases comprised part of the research dataset.rachamim18 said:
Why would it disturb me?
Are you really quite so cretinous to believe that I feel threatened by you?
Ah, the arrogance again.
I asked because the British armed forces don't allow you to complete your reserve service for a number of reason, one of which is the need to take a regular regimen of medication (except IIRC, for insulin). Neither do they allow people to enter or complete service if convicted of crimes past a certain severity.
To conflate this query with my supposed ignorance shows a laughable attempt by you to smear me.
The research I cited at the start of this reply included poly-substance (illicit and prescribed) abuse factors as well as general health.
The qualification was that I would not offer my experience as prescriptive for somebody's treatment. Therefore there is no "danger".
Unless of course, you believe that absolutely every person besides you who reads Urban75 is an idiot who is likely to read my subjective experience and act on it?
Age does not denote maturity, neither does knowledge. Maturity is attitude and outlook.
To partially quote William Shakespeare, "...all sound and fury, signifying nothing...".
Drug forum users belittle your grasp of reality, not of methadone, and as for passing your judgement on me, crack away. Your remarks are meaningless, little warrior.
They're quite amusing though, as a gauge of your ignorance
Descartes: At last someone is trying to steer the thread back to its intended path...albeit with antagonism. Israel, and the IDF by extension are of course filled with human beings. As such, fallibility is an ever present risk. First and foremost, if soemone is accused of a crime, I would hope that you and everyone else would work either with the presumption of innocence OR allowing for the possiblity of innocence. Noone in this forum or thread was present when either of the two events you mention took place. All any of us know are what we are told either by the media, or third parties who almost always have their own agendas. I try to consider myself a rational being. In addition, I have a bit of familiarity with Israel, and the so called "Palestinian Territories." As such, I recognise so much of the propaganda floated here for what it really is.
As for "structure for the IDF to do what they want," not at all. The IDF is tasked with an enormous responsability. Israel gained both Gaza and the "West Bank" as the result of wat. The two nations that had claimed them, Egypt and Jordan respectively, relinquished any and all claims to the lands. The result was that Israel could either abandon them to anarchy as there was no leadership at all for either territory [not to mention that both were populated with militant groups firmly committed to Israel's destruction], or Israel could administer them until such time as an aquitable solution was worked out.
All the talk of "Occupation" is nonsensical since the two nations that had formal possesion of them relinquished control formally. The talk of "land grabbing," "imperialism/colonialism," and "expansionism/ Greater Israel" is much of the same. If Israel had wanted to do any of that at any time it merely had to annex the lands [as it in fact did with mertopolitan E. Jerusalem]. Instead, it spent considerable outlay in both material and life to administer them for close to 40 years.
So, as Israel administers the "Territories," the IDF is left with the onus of actual "law and order." If you have any familiarity wirh either urban combat or close qauter combat you are well awarethat under the best of circumstancesit is a difficult and thankless task. Doing it then under the watchful eyes of both the international media and so called "Peace Activists" turns it into a near impossible feat.
If Israel was actually doing as you said, that is "whatever, whenever," why would it allow unim,bedded reporters to basically roam at will , film crews at the ready? What about foreign "Peace Activists?" How much hard news do you ever see out of Grozny? Timor? Dafur? Israel believes in transparency [with the exception of classified mattersof course]. Sometimes things do happen that seem disturbing but this ias after all an armed conflict. Sadly the militants choose to fight their "battles" amongs the surrounding population. As a result Israel is then left with trying to walk on eggs. After all is said and done, I think Israel does a great job at it. If you are able to remove most of your emotional response from your examination of the issue, you might start to agree.
As for "structure for the IDF to do what they want," not at all. The IDF is tasked with an enormous responsability. Israel gained both Gaza and the "West Bank" as the result of wat. The two nations that had claimed them, Egypt and Jordan respectively, relinquished any and all claims to the lands. The result was that Israel could either abandon them to anarchy as there was no leadership at all for either territory [not to mention that both were populated with militant groups firmly committed to Israel's destruction], or Israel could administer them until such time as an aquitable solution was worked out.
All the talk of "Occupation" is nonsensical since the two nations that had formal possesion of them relinquished control formally. The talk of "land grabbing," "imperialism/colonialism," and "expansionism/ Greater Israel" is much of the same. If Israel had wanted to do any of that at any time it merely had to annex the lands [as it in fact did with mertopolitan E. Jerusalem]. Instead, it spent considerable outlay in both material and life to administer them for close to 40 years.
So, as Israel administers the "Territories," the IDF is left with the onus of actual "law and order." If you have any familiarity wirh either urban combat or close qauter combat you are well awarethat under the best of circumstancesit is a difficult and thankless task. Doing it then under the watchful eyes of both the international media and so called "Peace Activists" turns it into a near impossible feat.
If Israel was actually doing as you said, that is "whatever, whenever," why would it allow unim,bedded reporters to basically roam at will , film crews at the ready? What about foreign "Peace Activists?" How much hard news do you ever see out of Grozny? Timor? Dafur? Israel believes in transparency [with the exception of classified mattersof course]. Sometimes things do happen that seem disturbing but this ias after all an armed conflict. Sadly the militants choose to fight their "battles" amongs the surrounding population. As a result Israel is then left with trying to walk on eggs. After all is said and done, I think Israel does a great job at it. If you are able to remove most of your emotional response from your examination of the issue, you might start to agree.
Panda: notice that I already mentioned that faulty paper. Provideone with relevant i.e. tox screens, etc] and you have a good case. Your paper has been laughed at since it was issued [of course no offense to your late friends]. Later on you claim thatin fact that poaper does take the circumstances I listed into account. Could I be mistaken then? I will reexaminethe paper after I finish on Urban today.
"Is everybody an idiot who would follow your subjective reckoning?" I am sure some would. Most addcits/heavy users are vulnerable and grasping for straws. If someone offers them reinforcement they will latch on, that is just common sense.
"Maturity." We can agreeon something apparently.
"My grasp of reality..." Yes, because so many people seek to pass themselves off as heroin addcits these days... Got it.
"Threatened by me?" Proof is in the pudding if it really mattered to me.
"British Armed Forces..." Yes, American as well although I suspect that they will coem off of their high horses rather soon, as is Canada as we speak. Volunteer Armies are cute. America actually will not allow enlistment for many misdemeanours. Israel is quite different. My Division, NAHAL, has a social component. Many Nachlawi work in community service program for up to a third of their enlistment. Some of these programs work with offenders and addicts. In fact, NAHAL also has [suprise] exoffenders and addicts among its personel. Ironically though, it is the other two battalions that are involved in that, not mine.
"Is everybody an idiot who would follow your subjective reckoning?" I am sure some would. Most addcits/heavy users are vulnerable and grasping for straws. If someone offers them reinforcement they will latch on, that is just common sense.
"Maturity." We can agreeon something apparently.
"My grasp of reality..." Yes, because so many people seek to pass themselves off as heroin addcits these days... Got it.
"Threatened by me?" Proof is in the pudding if it really mattered to me.
"British Armed Forces..." Yes, American as well although I suspect that they will coem off of their high horses rather soon, as is Canada as we speak. Volunteer Armies are cute. America actually will not allow enlistment for many misdemeanours. Israel is quite different. My Division, NAHAL, has a social component. Many Nachlawi work in community service program for up to a third of their enlistment. Some of these programs work with offenders and addicts. In fact, NAHAL also has [suprise] exoffenders and addicts among its personel. Ironically though, it is the other two battalions that are involved in that, not mine.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
No, you mentioned A "faulty paper".rachamim18 said:
Really, whom by (by which I mean peers, not soi-disant "experts".
You do that, bub. Knock yourself out.
Bullshit. If that were the case we'd have a vastly higher rate of mortality worldwide from heroin use than we do.
It's got nothing to do with people passing themselves off as heroin addicts (something I'm sure only an idiot or someone with psychological damage would do), and everything to do with your having made statements that had little credibility.
Do you always write in such fluent cliché?
That aside, what proof? If I felt threatened by you I'd avoid you, as it is I enjoy reading your pompous pronouncements, especially when you contradict yourself.
America won't have any choice but to reverse their legislation if they want to meet their enlistment quotas.
Rachamimi 18, please, do you really believe that?
If so,you have been subjeted to the same media that you accuse everyone else of following but from the opposite side.
Please justify the origins of the first incident, the destruction of the Oslo treaty be an Israeli walking into a temple and opening fire on the innocent congregation, the use of fire arms against stone throwing crowd. The nightly sniping of innocents purely to satisfy a rampant blood lust.
The officer charged with the shooting of the television has been found guilty by an Israeli court not the world media, the sentence has yet to be served and the belief is that once the publicity dies down he will be released to his family and continue as an army officer.
My personal experince, an israeli sniper, train for that specific task moved out of Israel to avoid having to carry out the killing of humans at the whim of an officer.
Dont forget that the state of Israeli was the work of terrorists, blowing up the King David hotel and killing English Army officer, Ben Gurion and the Stern gang
Let he, who is witout sin, cast the first stone. It won't be an Israeli.
If so,you have been subjeted to the same media that you accuse everyone else of following but from the opposite side.
Please justify the origins of the first incident, the destruction of the Oslo treaty be an Israeli walking into a temple and opening fire on the innocent congregation, the use of fire arms against stone throwing crowd. The nightly sniping of innocents purely to satisfy a rampant blood lust.
The officer charged with the shooting of the television has been found guilty by an Israeli court not the world media, the sentence has yet to be served and the belief is that once the publicity dies down he will be released to his family and continue as an army officer.
My personal experince, an israeli sniper, train for that specific task moved out of Israel to avoid having to carry out the killing of humans at the whim of an officer.
Dont forget that the state of Israeli was the work of terrorists, blowing up the King David hotel and killing English Army officer, Ben Gurion and the Stern gang
Let he, who is witout sin, cast the first stone. It won't be an Israeli.
Descartes: Yes, I believe it. You obviously have no idea what media I avail myself to, you might find yourself suprised if you actually asked me.
As for your idea that "an Israeli walking into a temple [sic] and opening fire on an innocent congregation" destroyed Oslo, you are completely and utterly confused. You must be talking about the Goldstein Massacare." It did not happen in a "temple." It happened in a cave. In Hebron, in 1994. The "Cave of the Patriarchs" is a site that is very holy to Jews as well. In fact, it is a major Jewish site. Jews were being resricted from full access due to demands of the Islamic Authority [Israeli Govt. agency].
In addition, the man responsible for the atrocity, Dr. Baruch Goldstein was a descendant of the 1929 Hebron Massacre [as am I]. Our ancestors were slughtered in Hebron, an attack that totally wiped out the ancient Jewish community in that city. Many were killed in that very cave.
In my eyes that does not justify [nor does anything, ever] killing civilains intentionally. However, those were the cirsumstances.
It did not help anything but certainly did not destroy a process that was never even accepted by the Arabs! HAMAS, PIJ, and PFLP among others haughtily dismissed it [Oslo]. Even Arafat was dismissive of it and even braggedin televised speeches that it was a guise for peperation of future hostilities. Even after all that, Arafat signed Oslo II on 9/28/95, almost a year after Hebron. So...How could the "Massacre" hve "destroyed Oslo?" Please answer.
"Nightly sniping of inncoents to satisfy a bloodlust?" Niiiiice. Haven't heard of bloodlibels before I take it?
"The belief is that the officer will be released..." Whose belief? Yours? Obviously you know nothing at all about the Israeli justice system. Israel does not "quietly release people after theyhave been convicted."
Your "personal expereince is an Israeli sniper moved so he did not have to kill at the whims of an officer?" Well, I am afraid in this area I have just a tad bit more subjective experience. I have been in the IDF for 23 years and have never met one person ordered to do so. In fact, aside from anonymously sourced trash like that, nothing has ever been produced. Where are tape recordings? Paperwork? Attributed testimony? Someonesupposedly told you he was supposed to do that? Sorry, that is nonsense.
The "King David" incident has been discussedin depth here very recently. Please do a search. As for Irgun, etc. Yes, Israel is not without blemishes. So what? that means what? It is certainly crstal clear compared to any Arab militia . As for casting stones, noone is without sin, including you. Think about it when you talk of casting stones.
As for your idea that "an Israeli walking into a temple [sic] and opening fire on an innocent congregation" destroyed Oslo, you are completely and utterly confused. You must be talking about the Goldstein Massacare." It did not happen in a "temple." It happened in a cave. In Hebron, in 1994. The "Cave of the Patriarchs" is a site that is very holy to Jews as well. In fact, it is a major Jewish site. Jews were being resricted from full access due to demands of the Islamic Authority [Israeli Govt. agency].
In addition, the man responsible for the atrocity, Dr. Baruch Goldstein was a descendant of the 1929 Hebron Massacre [as am I]. Our ancestors were slughtered in Hebron, an attack that totally wiped out the ancient Jewish community in that city. Many were killed in that very cave.
In my eyes that does not justify [nor does anything, ever] killing civilains intentionally. However, those were the cirsumstances.
It did not help anything but certainly did not destroy a process that was never even accepted by the Arabs! HAMAS, PIJ, and PFLP among others haughtily dismissed it [Oslo]. Even Arafat was dismissive of it and even braggedin televised speeches that it was a guise for peperation of future hostilities. Even after all that, Arafat signed Oslo II on 9/28/95, almost a year after Hebron. So...How could the "Massacre" hve "destroyed Oslo?" Please answer.
"Nightly sniping of inncoents to satisfy a bloodlust?" Niiiiice. Haven't heard of bloodlibels before I take it?
"The belief is that the officer will be released..." Whose belief? Yours? Obviously you know nothing at all about the Israeli justice system. Israel does not "quietly release people after theyhave been convicted."
Your "personal expereince is an Israeli sniper moved so he did not have to kill at the whims of an officer?" Well, I am afraid in this area I have just a tad bit more subjective experience. I have been in the IDF for 23 years and have never met one person ordered to do so. In fact, aside from anonymously sourced trash like that, nothing has ever been produced. Where are tape recordings? Paperwork? Attributed testimony? Someonesupposedly told you he was supposed to do that? Sorry, that is nonsense.
The "King David" incident has been discussedin depth here very recently. Please do a search. As for Irgun, etc. Yes, Israel is not without blemishes. So what? that means what? It is certainly crstal clear compared to any Arab militia . As for casting stones, noone is without sin, including you. Think about it when you talk of casting stones.
How about,
Israel blames British doctors for killing man they shot in the head
The mother of a young British activist shot in the Gaza strip has accused the Israeli military of scapegoating a soldier charged over her son's killing, and army commanders of a cover-up, as a yearlong trial drew to an end yesterday.
Jocelyn Hurndall criticised the army's handling of the court martial of Sergeant Wahid Taysir, 20, who is charged with manslaughter and conduct unbecoming a soldier after he shot Tom Hurndall in the head as he shepherded children to safety from gunfire in Rafah refugee camp two years ago.
Mr Hurndall, 22, was flown to London in a persistent vegetative state and died of pneumonia nine months later.
Sgt Taysir is also charged with obstructing justice for falsely telling army investigators that Mr Hurndall was wearing camouflage and carrying a gun.
Israel blames British doctors for killing man they shot in the head
The mother of a young British activist shot in the Gaza strip has accused the Israeli military of scapegoating a soldier charged over her son's killing, and army commanders of a cover-up, as a yearlong trial drew to an end yesterday.
Jocelyn Hurndall criticised the army's handling of the court martial of Sergeant Wahid Taysir, 20, who is charged with manslaughter and conduct unbecoming a soldier after he shot Tom Hurndall in the head as he shepherded children to safety from gunfire in Rafah refugee camp two years ago.
Mr Hurndall, 22, was flown to London in a persistent vegetative state and died of pneumonia nine months later.
Sgt Taysir is also charged with obstructing justice for falsely telling army investigators that Mr Hurndall was wearing camouflage and carrying a gun.
Or what about :
NABLUS, West Bank -- An Israeli soldier shot and killed a cameraman with Associated Press Television News who was covering a skirmish between troops and rock-throwing Palestinians in the West Bank city of Nablus on Saturday, witnesses said.
The Israeli military had no immediate comment but said it was looking into the shooting.
Nazeh Darwazeh, 45, was filming clashes between Israeli troops and Palestinians that began early Saturday. Doctors said Darwazeh died of a bullet wound to the head.
Video footage taken by a Reuters cameraman showed young Palestinian men running up an alley toward a parked armoured personnel carrier. After they threw rocks at the vehicle, troops fired shots. Witnesses said several firebombs were thrown toward the vehicle, and later footage showed a small area in the back of it on fire.
The footage then showed a man with a rifle in green combat fatigues kneeling down between the armoured personnel carrier and the wall of a house at the top of the alley. Witnesses identified the man as an Israeli soldier.
The footage showed him pointing his weapon toward the journalists. Seconds later, Darwazeh was seen lying in a doorway in a pool of blood.
He and other cameramen, still photographers and reporters had been at the bottom of the alley and were wearing brightly coloured vests that said "Press." It was unclear whether there was anyone behind Darwazeh at whom the soldiers might have been aiming when he was shot.
"A soldier came from under the tank and shot towards us," said Hassan Titi, a Reuters cameraman who witnessed and filmed the shooting. Another witness, Sami al Assi, a cameraman with a local TV station, said "The Israelis shot him and aimed specifically at us."
NABLUS, West Bank -- An Israeli soldier shot and killed a cameraman with Associated Press Television News who was covering a skirmish between troops and rock-throwing Palestinians in the West Bank city of Nablus on Saturday, witnesses said.
The Israeli military had no immediate comment but said it was looking into the shooting.
Nazeh Darwazeh, 45, was filming clashes between Israeli troops and Palestinians that began early Saturday. Doctors said Darwazeh died of a bullet wound to the head.
Video footage taken by a Reuters cameraman showed young Palestinian men running up an alley toward a parked armoured personnel carrier. After they threw rocks at the vehicle, troops fired shots. Witnesses said several firebombs were thrown toward the vehicle, and later footage showed a small area in the back of it on fire.
The footage then showed a man with a rifle in green combat fatigues kneeling down between the armoured personnel carrier and the wall of a house at the top of the alley. Witnesses identified the man as an Israeli soldier.
The footage showed him pointing his weapon toward the journalists. Seconds later, Darwazeh was seen lying in a doorway in a pool of blood.
He and other cameramen, still photographers and reporters had been at the bottom of the alley and were wearing brightly coloured vests that said "Press." It was unclear whether there was anyone behind Darwazeh at whom the soldiers might have been aiming when he was shot.
"A soldier came from under the tank and shot towards us," said Hassan Titi, a Reuters cameraman who witnessed and filmed the shooting. Another witness, Sami al Assi, a cameraman with a local TV station, said "The Israelis shot him and aimed specifically at us."
not only but also:
The widow of a British cameraman shot by Israeli soldiers in Gaza has accused the Israeli and British authorities of delaying the investigations into her husband's death.
Testifying at a London inquest, Sophy Miller said she believed the motive was to frustrate and to eventually force them to abandon their fight to prosecute his killer.
Sophy's husband James Miller, 34, was shot in the neck by a soldier in the Gaza-Egypt border area of Rafah in May 2003 while filming a documentary about the impact of violence on children in the region.
She told the inquest jury that the Israeli army had repeatedly given out misleading evidence about her husband's death.
"They put out statements almost immediately saying that there had been a gun battle and that James had walked into a gun battle," she said. "We know from military reports that there had been no gun battle."
Evidence
The Israeli government and British authorities had promised to do a thorough investigation; but it has been the family that has had to "produce, investigate and provide the evidence in order to bring any form of justice and to date he hasn't received any," she told the hearing at St. Pancras Coroners Court in London.
It was alleged that during Sophy's three trips to Israel after the death of her husband, she was put under pressure from Foreign and Commonwealth Office staff in Jerusalem to accept the Israeli post-mortem examination, conducted without the presence of an independent observer.
Miller (R) was hit by a bullet in
the neck
The widow has accused the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) of misleading her and said that the Lieutenant who killed her husband had given six testimonies, all of which were conflicting.
Daniel Edge, a television producer who was one of Miller's team of four and witnessed Miller's death, told the inquest about his attempts to help his colleague after he was shot by an Israeli soldier in Gaza three years ago
The widow of a British cameraman shot by Israeli soldiers in Gaza has accused the Israeli and British authorities of delaying the investigations into her husband's death.
Testifying at a London inquest, Sophy Miller said she believed the motive was to frustrate and to eventually force them to abandon their fight to prosecute his killer.
Sophy's husband James Miller, 34, was shot in the neck by a soldier in the Gaza-Egypt border area of Rafah in May 2003 while filming a documentary about the impact of violence on children in the region.
She told the inquest jury that the Israeli army had repeatedly given out misleading evidence about her husband's death.
"They put out statements almost immediately saying that there had been a gun battle and that James had walked into a gun battle," she said. "We know from military reports that there had been no gun battle."
Evidence
The Israeli government and British authorities had promised to do a thorough investigation; but it has been the family that has had to "produce, investigate and provide the evidence in order to bring any form of justice and to date he hasn't received any," she told the hearing at St. Pancras Coroners Court in London.
It was alleged that during Sophy's three trips to Israel after the death of her husband, she was put under pressure from Foreign and Commonwealth Office staff in Jerusalem to accept the Israeli post-mortem examination, conducted without the presence of an independent observer.
Miller (R) was hit by a bullet in
the neck
The widow has accused the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) of misleading her and said that the Lieutenant who killed her husband had given six testimonies, all of which were conflicting.
Daniel Edge, a television producer who was one of Miller's team of four and witnessed Miller's death, told the inquest about his attempts to help his colleague after he was shot by an Israeli soldier in Gaza three years ago
And, in case:
Abdullah Washai had to watch his 17-year-old brother, Munir, slowly bleed to death. He took several hours to die. A hole had been ripped in his shoulder by a round from an Israeli helicopter.
When the boy's mother, Mariam, ran into the street screaming for help, Mr Washai says, Israeli soldiers shot her dead.
These are typical of the claims of those who have managed to escape the carnage of Jenin refugee camp, the scene of the worst fighting of Israel's onslaught in the West Bank.
The question that was facing Israel yesterday was: what will happen when the full story of what Israel has wreaked in the Jenin camp is revealed?
As the Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv said in an editorial: "We can begin thinking today about the war after the war: the public relations war in the media in which Israel can be expected to be placed in the international defendant's seat, when the television screens around the world become filled with the spectacle of bodies lined up, destroyed houses and crying, distraught relatives."
Abdullah Washai had to watch his 17-year-old brother, Munir, slowly bleed to death. He took several hours to die. A hole had been ripped in his shoulder by a round from an Israeli helicopter.
When the boy's mother, Mariam, ran into the street screaming for help, Mr Washai says, Israeli soldiers shot her dead.
These are typical of the claims of those who have managed to escape the carnage of Jenin refugee camp, the scene of the worst fighting of Israel's onslaught in the West Bank.
The question that was facing Israel yesterday was: what will happen when the full story of what Israel has wreaked in the Jenin camp is revealed?
As the Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv said in an editorial: "We can begin thinking today about the war after the war: the public relations war in the media in which Israel can be expected to be placed in the international defendant's seat, when the television screens around the world become filled with the spectacle of bodies lined up, destroyed houses and crying, distraught relatives."
Now, which one don't you belive:
ISRAELI soldiers yesterday shot dead a suspected Palestinian militant at the home of a British woman who moved to the West Bank from Wales three years ago.
Anne Gwynne said she was enjoying a drink with Mohammed Alassi and another man on the veranda of her home in Nablus when they were surrounded by Israeli soldiers who set off stun grenades.
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Mr Alassi fled out the back and tried to jump a wall when soldiers shot him in the leg and incapacitated him, Ms Gwynne said. The soldiers continued to shoot him at close range to ensure he was dead, she said.
"They could have arrested him, he was lying on the ground," she added. The second man was arrested.
ISRAELI soldiers yesterday shot dead a suspected Palestinian militant at the home of a British woman who moved to the West Bank from Wales three years ago.
Anne Gwynne said she was enjoying a drink with Mohammed Alassi and another man on the veranda of her home in Nablus when they were surrounded by Israeli soldiers who set off stun grenades.
Advert for scotsman.com money channel
Mr Alassi fled out the back and tried to jump a wall when soldiers shot him in the leg and incapacitated him, Ms Gwynne said. The soldiers continued to shoot him at close range to ensure he was dead, she said.
"They could have arrested him, he was lying on the ground," she added. The second man was arrested.
By the way<
n Australian man is recovering in hospital in Israel, after being shot in the head during a demonstration in the West Bank.
The International Solidarity Movement says about 300 people were taking part in a weekly protest against the building of Israel's West Bank separation wall, when the soldiers opened fire.
Spokeswoman Zadie Sussie says five people were injured by rubber bullets, including Sydney man Philip Reiss.
Mr Reiss was hit in the head at close range.
"I helped him up and I escorted him towards the ambulance while they were still shooting at us," she said.
Mr Reiss, who was filming the protest when he was hit, is being treated in a Tel Aviv hospital.
His mother has told the ABC she has been informed his injury is not life threatening.
The Israeli Army says the protesters threw rocks at its troops and physically assaulted them.
It says two border policemen have been lightly injured.
n Australian man is recovering in hospital in Israel, after being shot in the head during a demonstration in the West Bank.
The International Solidarity Movement says about 300 people were taking part in a weekly protest against the building of Israel's West Bank separation wall, when the soldiers opened fire.
Spokeswoman Zadie Sussie says five people were injured by rubber bullets, including Sydney man Philip Reiss.
Mr Reiss was hit in the head at close range.
"I helped him up and I escorted him towards the ambulance while they were still shooting at us," she said.
Mr Reiss, who was filming the protest when he was hit, is being treated in a Tel Aviv hospital.
His mother has told the ABC she has been informed his injury is not life threatening.
The Israeli Army says the protesters threw rocks at its troops and physically assaulted them.
It says two border policemen have been lightly injured.
Lehi (IPA: ['lɛxi], Hebrew acronym for Lohamei Herut Israel, "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel",לח"י - לוחמי חירות ישראל) was an armed underground faction in pre-state Israel that had as its goal the eviction of the British from Palestine to allow unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state.
British authorities called the group the Stern Gang (named after its first commander, Avraham Stern), a label that persists in historical accounts.
British authorities called the group the Stern Gang (named after its first commander, Avraham Stern), a label that persists in historical accounts.
, 1948, Lehi assassinated the UN Mediator, Count Folke Bernadotte, who had been sent to broker a settlement in the dispute. The assassination was directed by Yehoshua Zetler and carried out by a four-man team led by Meshulam Markover. The fatal shots were fired by Yehoshua Cohen. Lehi leaders Nathan Yellin-Mor and Matitiahu Schmulevitz were arrested two months after the murder. Most of the suspects involved were released immediately and all of them were granted general amnesty on the 14th of February, 1949.
In case you think it's something new: These are not mentioned on the Irgun web site, now isn't that strange...
# April 20 1936- 2 Arab workers in a banana plantation killed
# March, 1937 - 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach
# November 14, 1937 - 6 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Jerusalem.
# April 12, 1938 - 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
# April 17, 1938 - An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
# May 17, 1938 - An Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
# May 24, 1938 - 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
# June 23, 1938 - 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
# June 26, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
# June 27, 1938 - An Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
# July 5, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
# On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
# On the same day, an Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
# July 6 1938 - 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab Melon market in Haifa.
# July 8, 1938 - 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
# July 16, 1938 - 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
# July 25, 1938 - 39 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
# August 26, 1938 - 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
# February 27, 1939 - 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
# May 29, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
# On the same day, 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
# June 2, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
# June 12, 1939 - A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs.
# June 16, 1939 - 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
# June 19, 1939 - 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
# June 29, 1939 - 13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period.
# June 30, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
# On the same day, 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
# July 3, 1939 - An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
# July 4, 1939 - 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
# July 20, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
# On the same day, 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
# On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
# August 27, 1939 - 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.
# April 20 1936- 2 Arab workers in a banana plantation killed
# March, 1937 - 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach
# November 14, 1937 - 6 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Jerusalem.
# April 12, 1938 - 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
# April 17, 1938 - An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
# May 17, 1938 - An Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
# May 24, 1938 - 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
# June 23, 1938 - 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
# June 26, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
# June 27, 1938 - An Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
# July 5, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
# On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
# On the same day, an Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
# July 6 1938 - 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab Melon market in Haifa.
# July 8, 1938 - 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
# July 16, 1938 - 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
# July 25, 1938 - 39 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
# August 26, 1938 - 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
# February 27, 1939 - 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
# May 29, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
# On the same day, 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
# June 2, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
# June 12, 1939 - A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs.
# June 16, 1939 - 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
# June 19, 1939 - 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
# June 29, 1939 - 13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period.
# June 30, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
# On the same day, 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
# July 3, 1939 - An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
# July 4, 1939 - 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
# July 20, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
# On the same day, 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
# On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
# August 27, 1939 - 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Good work, Descartes.
pembrokestephen
New Member
I'm mildly appalled to note that nowhere in this entire post did you manage to mention Palestine or the Palestinians.rachamim18 said:
Nice work on the airbrushing...
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