World War II
- Thread starter Hollis
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mojo pixy
שיר חדש
If this is happening, then...
YT has pt.1 and 2 of The World at War (the excellent and well-known 26-part Thames TV documentary) and Dailymotion has pt. 3, 4. and 5. This makes me suspect that most if not all episodes can be found online, if not through YT then through DM. Here are the first few anyway.
Pt.1: A New Germany (1933-39)
Pt.2: Distant War (September 1939 - May 1940)
Pt.3: France Falls (May - June 1940)
Pt.4: Alone (May 1940 - May 1941)
Pt.5: Barbarossa (June - December 1941)
YT has pt.1 and 2 of The World at War (the excellent and well-known 26-part Thames TV documentary) and Dailymotion has pt. 3, 4. and 5. This makes me suspect that most if not all episodes can be found online, if not through YT then through DM. Here are the first few anyway.
Pt.1: A New Germany (1933-39)
Pt.2: Distant War (September 1939 - May 1940)
Pt.3: France Falls (May - June 1940)
Pt.4: Alone (May 1940 - May 1941)
Pt.5: Barbarossa (June - December 1941)
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Wikipedia's "list of shipwrecks" pages are a lot more fascinating than they might sound, at least for WW2:
en.wikipedia.org
List of shipwrecks in September 1939 - Wikipedia
The series seems to be on a continuous loop on the Yesterday channel, around ten in the morning. The series finishes then restarts after a couple of weeks. I’ve watched it all twice during lockdown since last March.
Brilliant, must see documentary series.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think amazon or netflix has (certainly did have) the waw
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
internet archive has
search (google) site:archive.org "world at war" and you'll find loads (my first result )
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
I should probably revisit the World War again at some point as an adult. I overdid it at school and have felt jaded by it ever since but I'm sure I would take more in now.
Any interesting books/podcasts that people would recommend?
Any interesting books/podcasts that people would recommend?
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
I've actually posted this one on 2 threads already so sorry for repetition.
We Have Ways of Making You Talk on acast
Achtung! Achtung! Comedian Al Murray and historian James Holland discuss all matters Second World War. We Have Ways of Making You Talk is a bi-weekly show exploring the war in close up. James and Al have a stunning knowledge of their subject, but don't expect a linear narrative. The boys love a...
play.acast.com
They also recommend many, many books. I follow a few WW2 military history types on twitter, can post some links up if that is of interest? They do the occasional thread on some really obscure stuff. No loonies.
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Yep post it up will take a look through it! 
The Antony Beevor accounts of D-Day, The Battle of Crete and Stalingrad have all been good reads and very informative. I will read his other volumes as I can.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Liked looking at that, and the second part. My dad was in the North African desert in WWII and then also in Italy before making it to Germany for the end.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I was thinking about the impact of the war on me as a kid the other day. It only ended 30 years prior to my birth, and plenty of people that had fought were only in their late 40s or 50s then, which now feels very young. My dad was too young to have fought, but both my grandparents talked about it a lot, and we had bits and pieces of the war in their house (tin helmet, dagger, and of course loads of books) and a common Sunday activity was a walk and then a B&W war film on TV. And then there were all the Commando comics, action man toys, Airfix models, and similar war related kids things. A family friend was also a Spitfire ace in the Battle of Britain and some of my school teachers had fought. I think it was quite a influence in many ways in my early life.
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editor
hiraethified
What amazes me is how so many returning soldiers (and victims of the brutality of war) managed to get back to their lives and hold it together with their memories full of the most awful things.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
It was a clash between socio-economic systems. Ways of organising and allocating labour, resources, capital and intellectual endeavour (though that is labour). It pitted liberal capitalism, Stalinist Marxism, the hyper racialised Nazism, the feudalist\capitalist mix up that was Japan and whatever the hell Mussolini was supposed to be against each other in two blocks. The winners went on to dominate the battle for the rest of the 20th century. One way of looking at it is to suggest those with their philosophical roots in Romanticism were defeated with those with their ideological roots in Utilitarianism. The Blood and Soil, Triumph of the Will from Nietzsche and his precursors was no match for the systems that analysed the world on either class struggle or profit and loss (a gross simplification that can easily be argued against. Buts its a jump off point to think about, not the destination).
en.wikipedia.org
The level of cooperation between the US and UK and the dominions is perhaps unprecedented in history. Things like 100 octane aviation fuel and variable pitch propellers were arriving in the UK at cost more than a year and a half before the US got involved in the war while things like centimetric radar and crucial calculations for nuclear weapons went in the other direction.
It was a war the west fought by applying vast resources into technology and weight of fire power. But the Eurasian allies in China and the USSR fought by mass of human lives. (Another simplification but you could write a Ph.D on this). Professor Sonke Neitzel has suggested the Reich expended about 6% of its war resources on tank production but about 40% on its aviation industry. A tank is steel and steel is cheap. A radar night fighter was a huge investment in design and building.
Soviet generals were better than history remembers them. The western allied contribution was probably far greater than some people seem to try to portray. China paid a huge and largely forgotten price in this conflict. Italian soldiers were often braver than history remembers, poorly led though.
From May 1943 the Royal Navy and Royal Canadian Navy effectively crushed the Kreigsmarine.
From February to May 1944 the United States Army Air Corps all but annihilated the Luftwaffe.
In June to August 1944 two of the four functional army groups of the Heer (Army Group Centre and Army Group B) was ground to dust in Bagration and Normandy.
But behind the gee whiz bang stories of the war. Children were raped, old women were murdered in their beds, families burned to death in bombing raids, people starved. Every life lost was as valuable to the person who owned it as yours is to you.
Military production during World War II - Wikipedia
The level of cooperation between the US and UK and the dominions is perhaps unprecedented in history. Things like 100 octane aviation fuel and variable pitch propellers were arriving in the UK at cost more than a year and a half before the US got involved in the war while things like centimetric radar and crucial calculations for nuclear weapons went in the other direction.
It was a war the west fought by applying vast resources into technology and weight of fire power. But the Eurasian allies in China and the USSR fought by mass of human lives. (Another simplification but you could write a Ph.D on this). Professor Sonke Neitzel has suggested the Reich expended about 6% of its war resources on tank production but about 40% on its aviation industry. A tank is steel and steel is cheap. A radar night fighter was a huge investment in design and building.
Soviet generals were better than history remembers them. The western allied contribution was probably far greater than some people seem to try to portray. China paid a huge and largely forgotten price in this conflict. Italian soldiers were often braver than history remembers, poorly led though.
From May 1943 the Royal Navy and Royal Canadian Navy effectively crushed the Kreigsmarine.
From February to May 1944 the United States Army Air Corps all but annihilated the Luftwaffe.
In June to August 1944 two of the four functional army groups of the Heer (Army Group Centre and Army Group B) was ground to dust in Bagration and Normandy.
But behind the gee whiz bang stories of the war. Children were raped, old women were murdered in their beds, families burned to death in bombing raids, people starved. Every life lost was as valuable to the person who owned it as yours is to you.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Peter Ustinov told a story of a German General he chatted to once who said on the Russian Front the Russians were terrible to fight against, they were completely unpredictable.
One story Ustinov told was that the Germans got news that the Russians would attack in massed formation at point A on Thursday at 06:00. The Germans made preparations for the attack and were confident they could win the battle. Early in the morning of that day the Russians started their mass tank formation for point A, but found that they didn't have enough fuel to reach point A and attack so instead they turned at point B and attacked there which was very weakly defended sure as they were the Germans were all massed at point A and were routed.
One story Ustinov told was that the Germans got news that the Russians would attack in massed formation at point A on Thursday at 06:00. The Germans made preparations for the attack and were confident they could win the battle. Early in the morning of that day the Russians started their mass tank formation for point A, but found that they didn't have enough fuel to reach point A and attack so instead they turned at point B and attacked there which was very weakly defended sure as they were the Germans were all massed at point A and were routed.
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mojo pixy
שיר חדש
I seem to remember regularly seeing (what seemed to me at the time) old men with one arm, one leg, no legs, one eye etc. Grew up in Gosport & Portsmouth in the 70s so obviously full of ex-servicemen. One chap who lived locally to us had half a jaw and massive face burns, I remember so many times being told by my mum not to stare, and I feel like I've known exactly what a war wound is since for ever. You don't see that kind of thing any more, thankfully.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
Maybe the Soviets did not "run out of fuel", but they deceived the German generals who then made up a bullshit story to cover for the fact they lacked the intelligence and reconnaissance in the first place.
An army that pushes you back 100km does not have a fuel problem. Your staff officers have a fooled problem.
An army that pushes you back 100km does not have a fuel problem. Your staff officers have a fooled problem.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Isn't there a story of a German general who, while officially surrendering, was supposed to have said, "Next time it's your turn to have the Italians."
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Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The universal carrier is the greatest little bit of kit ever and here's why. Always loved this thing.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
Italian divisions held the line at el-Alamain and fought to the bitter end while the Germans retreated.
Under equipped and untrained. Fighting for a fantasy empire that could never happen led by idiots.
They are not hero's, great men or to be held in high regard. But they fought with courage for a shit government. Many Italians showed great moral courage in the face of tyranny.
Gino Bartali: The cyclist who saved Jews in wartime Italy
Italian cycling champion Gino Bartali was the pride of the Mussolini regime - but he risked his life to defy the Nazis.
www.bbc.co.uk
There were heroic Italians and horrific British, compassionate Soviets and gentle Germans.
Read a lot of books on this aged around 12-13, including Churchill's 6 volume papers/ diaries, and Basil Liddell Hart's opus. Reflecting as a more mature person, the fascination seems a little ghoulish. But it's an area of history I return to, whether in the form of fiction, non-fiction or the inevitable films. My grandfather flew in the RAF as a fighter pilot, in the Mediterranean and possibly in India too, remaining post-war to fly Meteor jets I think. Information is sketchy as he absconded from his family in the early 50s having not enjoyed civilian life, or, it appears, the company of his wife and children. His logbook is with my Uncle.
The World At War seems like one to watch as I haven't seen it. It appears to currently be on UK TV Play, which I believe is free.
The World At War seems like one to watch as I haven't seen it. It appears to currently be on UK TV Play, which I believe is free.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
The war ended 9 years before the year of my birth. Looking back now it is remarkable how little it was really ever spoken about. My uncle Dick was a spitfire pilot in the Battle of Britain. Never talked about it. One of my uncle Bob's lost his arm in Italy fighting the Germans. Never talked about it. My other uncle Bob was present at the liberation of Belsen and he was never able to talk to anyone about it at all in any way. When asked he just left the room. As for my uncle Fred, a Dutch Jew who hid from the Germans throughout the occupation of the Netherlands - guess what - he never talked about it. So from my experience what I learnt was from comics as a little kid (fluent in 'war German' - Raus, raus! Donner und Blitzen! Etc), and then films and reading books. It was never taught at school for people my age. In some ways it's no wonder that Holocaust deniers can get away with so much. Too much silence.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
I can't recommend this lot's output enough. Nerd out. 
This is the most recent upload in the WW2 "in real time" series:
The other channels this lot do are also well worth a look.
My Aussie great uncle ended up in Changi aged 16. Lied about his age and joined up aged 15. Survived.
This is the most recent upload in the WW2 "in real time" series:
The other channels this lot do are also well worth a look.
My Aussie great uncle ended up in Changi aged 16. Lied about his age and joined up aged 15. Survived.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Italian divisions held the line at el-Alamain and fought to the bitter end while the Germans retreated.
Under equipped and untrained. Fighting for a fantasy empire that could never happen led by idiots.
They are not hero's, great men or to be held in high regard. But they fought with courage for a shit government. Many Italians showed great moral courage in the face of tyranny.
Gino Bartali: The cyclist who saved Jews in wartime Italy
Italian cycling champion Gino Bartali was the pride of the Mussolini regime - but he risked his life to defy the Nazis.www.bbc.co.uk
There were heroic Italians and horrific British, compassionate Soviets and gentle Germans.
Italian troops were decent, even some of the designs were decent, but Mussolini threw them in with no plan, no resources, and at a moment's notice. The industrial base crumbled, the suppliers could never get enough bits to the front to matter and the command and control was stratified even when compared to British CNC with its officers and sergeants coming from very different worlds.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think a lot of that though is them knowing that, for all our interest and concern, we've got no frame of reference to truly understand what they are saying.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I think a lot more is that the memories were just too painful. Talking about Belsen would just have made my uncle cry, and men of that generation, who had come through the war, couldn't do that. He also wouldn't have wanted to describe the things that he witnessed. It would have upset others as well. Understandable that he would have rather kept it all buried.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
805 killed on the Arandora Star which was carrying deported "enemy aliens"... basically refugees from fascism SS Arandora Star - WikipediaWikipedia's "list of shipwrecks" pages are a lot more fascinating than they might sound, at least for WW2:
List of shipwrecks in September 1939 - Wikipedia
I was born twelve years after it ended. My dad was an armourer in Bomber Command. He lived with so much guilt in his last few years. I remember catching him with tears in his eyes, something no one ever saw when the evening news was showing the Arclight bombings over Vietnam and Laos.
One of my uncles served in Burma with The Gurkhas, all he said about it was the climate and how pleased he was to come home. He died aged 96, at his funeral we found out he had been mentioned in dispatches three times. We didn’t know, I still have his Kukri, locked away obviously.
One of my uncles served in Burma with The Gurkhas, all he said about it was the climate and how pleased he was to come home. He died aged 96, at his funeral we found out he had been mentioned in dispatches three times. We didn’t know, I still have his Kukri, locked away obviously.
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