Working class attitudes to servicemen of the Second World War

[equationgirl]

You're very welcome Dark Knight I hope you manage to find some more information.

 

[Brainaddict]

I think my initial view might be to let sleeping dogs lie...

Like pretty much everyone else I've not heard of any kind of community wide ostracism just because someone joined up - which suggests it was personal, and the long standing and community wide nature of it suggests it was pretty bad.

The professionals (existentialist leaps to mind, he's pretty good..) might be able to give a more educated view on whether it's best to know something bad, or to not know and have it unresolved, but my concern is that you're going to dig out something pretty unpleasant, which may then cause you further issues around how you see your previous relationship with that person/identity.

Perhaps 'ostracised by the community because he joined up instead of going down the pit' is a comfortable cover story that your family told themselves to avoid looking at a nasty wound. Perfectly understandable, and given that they were the people who were there, with more information than you/we have, I'm tempted to think you might be best off following their cue.

ATB.

Yeah, I wondered if it was something like he came back boasting of how many people he'd killed. That would have gone down badly with a lot of people who preferred not to talk about it because killing is a nasty business however good the cause, and the family would have been able to read it as 'ostracised for killing people'. Just one theory, there could be many explanations.

 

[jcsd]

My grandad was also a gunner, from working class South London, he forged his ID documents to join up aged 15, I must admit I'm bit skeptical that someone would be ostracized for fighting WWII, because that entire generation was conscripted and taking part was seen as an obligation. The impression I got from all my grandparents was that the war was the big event in all their lives and it hugely shaped their lifes afterwards, even though each of their experiences were very different.

 

[campanula]

My grandad refused to fight an 'imperialist war' for the British (he was born in 1893 , an Armenian jew who became a London draper after the genocide) and also refused a non-combatant role (both WW1 and 2. I was told he spent some time in prison but a lot of it was hushed up on one side of my working class family because of shame. My Irish nana also, I have to say, had nothing good to say about the British and servicemen in general...but I think this atttitude was fairly anomalous, especially in most parts of Liverpool, where they lived after WW1. I never knew my granddad but my parents were socialists and took a very dim view of the military (and police) and I guess the apple didn't fall very far, considering my offspring and I...although I know a lot of servicemen (can't think of any women) because recruitment was sustained and intense (in most of the industrial north and midlands) and it was always seen as a viable career choice.

 

[davesgcr]

Was under the impression that coal miners were not conscripted at all, the opposite in fact, they were required via the Essential Work Order to remain in the mines as the war effort relied on domestic coal, indeed the Bevin Boys were conscripted to work in the mines. So if the grandad here quit the mines to fight and was subsequently shunned, that may be the reason.

My own father - employed in the South Wales anthracite area as a pitman's assistant (aged 16 in 1939) , set off to the RAF Recruitment Officer and was welcomed with open arms , paperwork completed there and then and told to await instructions.

A day or so later , the local Police Sergeant turned up with a warrant for his arrest and making a show of handcuffs etc. This being Wales - he was invited in , given tea etc and the warrant put into the open fire and my old man turned up as promised for the 0700 shift the next morning. That was that - apart from getting a 5/- fine for showing a bike light in the blackout from the same PS.

Coal was incredibly important - there were maybe 30,000 tons of rubbish unsellable coal stocked locally - but that soon dissapeared into the effort. Export orders to major markets like Italy / France and of course the Med ceased almost immediately - but the mine owners carried on digging it out and stacking it - giving a welcome "buffer" supply for future use , - as the war went on , they were exhorted to work Saturdays , and in 1944 even Sundays. The latter they refused (and were roundly castigated for it) - as by then they were exhausted and not brilliantly -fed - yes relative I know , but not exactly a sedentary occupation.

Covert training was given for "resistance" type activities (remember colliery officials were trained on explosive use as part of the job) - but this was gently forgotten after about 1942 I wish now I had asked more about it. He said the post 1945 years were harder food wise - but living in a largely rural area - there were all sorts of ways to enhance supplies

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Was under the impression that coal miners were not conscripted at all, the opposite in fact, they were required via the Essential Work Order to remain in the mines as the war effort relied on domestic coal, indeed the Bevin Boys were conscripted to work in the mines. So if the grandad here quit the mines to fight and was subsequently shunned, that may be the reason.

My grandad never forgave the Kent miners for going on strike. I get the impression there was a lot of bitterness associated with industrial relations for the industries that did strike.

 

[The39thStep]

My grandad never forgave the Kent miners for going on strike. I get the impression there was a lot of bitterness associated with industrial relations for the industries that did strike.

There is always bitterness when there is industrial action. Not sure where , aside , from your grandfather that there was lots of it though. If you look at the end of the war there were strikes in the armed forces and Labour romped to victory, even the Communist party had members elected.

 

[Dark Knight]

I just wanted to add to the thread and say that I am continuing my researches and making some progress, and may add an update with further information at some stage. It's all very interesting, as what the family tell me seems to conflict with academic coverage of the topic in that geographical area.

Anyway, I wish to thank you all for the helpful and civil responses, which is a great credit to this community. Thank you very much.

 

[two sheds]

From the other side a bit, my dad was into Swedenborg (heretical Christian sect which made life interesting with my CofE mum) and said he didn't mind helping the war effort but wasn't going to kill anyone. I remember him telling me the sergeant threatened to take him outside as a conshi and he said 'go on then'. He ended up repairing spitfires in Egypt.

He never made a secret of it and I don't think he had any problems after the war from wc workmates (he was painter&decorator).

 

[StoneRoad]

My late father turned himself into a toolmaker, initially on locomotives (Leeds) then moved to near Yate and in WW2 was supervising machining shell cases ie munitions work. He also did fire-watching / arp duties.
I think he would have been a CO if he hadn't been in a reserved occupation on war work,
Think my late mother was more administration after leaving school just before WW2 started.

Will have to investigate when I have time, and do the same with OH's family ...

FiL was shipyard electrician, called up into RAF. Worked at a MTU in Cumbria then transferred to Burma, for a while after VJ day he was running Rangoon Power Station before shipping home & getting demobbed.
FiL's brother was a "Bevin Boy"., that detail I do know.