Woman killed in traffic accident - Brixton Hill 22nd of April

[Kizmet]

Not being in on the investigation, no. But you only need to read the accounts of the incident to know why, surely?

Because some eye-witness accounts suggest that there was intent to harm. I'm glad that this will be tested in court.

Fair enough.. I did a bit more reading and I can see what you meant. Not sure as I'd see it as good news, though.

The impression I was getting from the reports was that the driver didn't know she was still in front of his van.

 

[nick h.]

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[Kizmet]

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[nick h.]

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[Kizmet]

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[lighterthief]

Can I say that I think he is guilty of murder?

Should probably just jail him now IMO, spare the expense and hassle of a trial etc.

 

[shygirl]

Nick, I think you're being really irresponsible here - are you trying to jeopardise the trial. Let's just wait and see. By all means debate the law, but statements you've made could surely be detrimental the trial.

And what a far-fetched analysis of the reason behind the murder charge being down Musker/police wanting to stage a PR exercise! in the name of community relations.

 

[nick h.]

Sorry, I've probably been thinking about this far too much. To be honest I still can't really think rationally about her all squished under the wheels of that damn truck. I'll go and delete my posts.

 

[Crispy]

Good move. No speculation/rumours please people!

 

[detective-boy]

That's splitting hairs, though... you're right he didn't say 'routine' but 'not uncommon' isn't very different.

As is often the case with the law, precision is important. Routine and not uncommon are NOT the same thing at all.

It is NOT routine to charge murder if all the evidence shows that there is no intent (or, at least, that there is insufficient on which a conviction is more likely than not - the CPS's "evidential sufficiency" standard).

It is not uncommon though, where the defence have not provided an account, for it to be charged (on the basis of the thus far uncontested witness / scientific / etc. evidence) even though the investigators believe that there may well be a defence account which will make it manslaughter (or even less). This is often the case where the defence have chosen not to provide the police with an account in interview - the police might guess what the defendant will say at court (they may even have been told off the record), but they can't make decisions on that basis. It is the dilemma for a suspect in police custody - staying silent in interview may be the long-term best advice ... but it may mean that you end up spending months on remand for a serious charge when giving your account may convince the police / CPS that it was an accident / it was self-defence or whatever your defence is ...

(NB: I have absolutely no knowledge whether or not the driver provided any account to police in this case - the above discussion is about hypothetical / other cases, not this one specifically).

 

[Gramsci]

Only if you're paranoid ... I don't pretend to be an expert on punctuation, but as far as I can see it seperates two of the three categories: (a) crime and reoffending; (b) control immigration and (c) prevent terrorism.

If you are listing three things, two will be seperated by a comma, the third by "and". That does not in any way imply that any combination of them are connected surely.

You could make an assumption that they were in descending order of importance, but that may or may not be accurate - as far as you can tell from the face of them they could simply be in random order or because the marketing geeks reckon it "scans" better in that order or something.

The actual sentence put crime and reoffending together then immigration and
terrorism. As we all know immigration and terrorism are put together by the government.Thats the justification for stricter border controls and ID cards.(though that is one of several arguments government uses.The threat of terror argument is used to shut people up as they dont want to be seen as soft on "terror".)I dont think Im being paranoid.Seems to me from looking at Sercos website that its full of New Labour speak.I do find this slightly creepy as this is only a "service provider" not a policy maker.

 

[Gramsci]

That's American punctuation? I didn't know there was a difference. You're making me worried now.

Im no expert on grammer or spelling.As an ordinary joe the way the sentence reads is that controlling immigration and terror are associated activities.

All the highlighted in red piece had to say is that Serco provides services to the government in the security area.Which is what Serco does.

 

[Gramsci]

As far as charging someone with murder or attempted murder I agree with DBoy here.I was a witness (years ago) for attempted murder.When it got to court it went down to GBH.I was not that pleased as the only reason me and and my friend agreed to be witnesses was that it was (initially) such a serious case.Two of them got off and one got a short sentence for GBH.The police dealing with the case werent that pleased either.

Just because someone is charged with something really serious doesnt mean it will end up like that by the time it gets to court.

 

[detective-boy]

I was not that pleased as the only reason me and and my friend agreed to be witnesses was that it was (initially) such a serious case.

Bit of a derail ... but GBH is just as serious as murder / attempted murder in many cases - if there is an intent to cause realy serious harm, it is often an accident of fate and nothing else which makes this case a GBH (or even an attempted GBH) and that one a murder - sometimes a millimetre or two, or the skills of a paramedic or surgeon. Sadly the sentence don't always refelect that fact!

 

[TopCat]

Have they let him off yet?

 

[Crispy]

Trial's not till October - starting on the 17th.

 

[TopCat]

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[pboi]

sad death. heart breaking pictures. did she not get the right help? or did she not take the help offered?


too many pissed people hang around le brix all day, needs to be cleaned up. along with the drugs!

 

[Jonti]

You may "clean up" the area so it looks tareblee naice.

But I'm not sure how that would help those folks you'd like to clean away.

 

[pboi]

i dont care how it looks. i do care about the people hanging about all day taking drugs / getting pissed and falling into vans

 

[Mrs Magpie]

She didn't fall into a van. She was dancing in front of the stationary vehicle and then it ran her over. That's why the driver was arrested on the charge of murder. The allegation is that it wasn't an accident.

 

[pboi]

that is fucked up

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Well looking at the history of mankind's inhumanity to mankind that's the sort of method some people might like to use to 'cleanse' the streets of people they find unacceptable.

 

[lighterthief]

When does this court case begin, does anyone know?

 

[Mind]

that is fucked up

What is fucked up is that she was left to take care of herself when she was clearly incapable of doing so.
If the stories I have heard are true (and certainly the neighbour's comments in the slide show seem to verify this) she left her kid satarving at home while she went to have a drink with her "friends" in the town centre.

Not the behaviour of someone who is mentally healthy.

What baffles me is that she had a large family that clearly felt this was someone else's problem. It never ceases to amaze me how people who come from Caribbean or African cultures, where there is no equivalent of social services, quickly sink into that awful mindset that it is some official person/institution's duty to take care of them or their family when things go wrong.

They really believe that the state/their local councillor/Gordon Brown /Sharon Shoesmith or her equivalent is going to come down and make everything ok.

Poor Van Driver.
From everything I've heard and know, he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and not concentrating hard enough.

That people really believe because he was a white security van driver he must also be a secret fascist and murderer is disappointing.... and typical.

 

[pboi]

I am gonna blame Haringey!! ( bad joke )

 

[Jonti]

It is a great shame you cannot see the look of visceral disgust on my face on reading your sentiments, Mind.

Do you actually have any real knowledge of her friends and family, or perhaps you thought this thread a handy place to to air your filthy mind?

It never ceases to amaze me how people who come from Caribbean or African cultures ... quickly sink into that awful mindset that it is some official person/institution's duty to take care of them or their family when things go wrong.

What amazes me is how quickly some folks leap to air their nauseating attitudes even in the face of a tragic death.

Poor Van Driver.
From everything I've heard and know, he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and not concentrating hard enough.

Perhaps he was badly trained and didn't have a clue what was going on. After all, he only had to patiently wait a while -- Naomi had regularly danced in front of the traffic at that place.

Let's hope the inquest is able to establish why he was not aware of this particular hazard on the route, or, if he had been delayed in this way before, why he chose to respond with a potentially homicidal course of action.

That people really believe because Naomi was one of the street-life she must also be fair game for running down and killing is disappointing.... and typical of a certain kind of white-trash, fascist mindset, if I may make the observation

 

[Mind]

It is a great shame you cannot see the look of visceral disgust on my face on reading your sentiments, Mind.

Feel free to look disgusted.
You make the mistake of thinking that I give a shit what your sentiments are.

Do you actually have any real knowledge of her friends and family, or perhaps you thought this thread a handy place to to air your filthy mind?

Perhaps you should go to the link and read the comments that the neighbour who took the photos attributed to her father made before jumping to stupid conclusions.

I am perfectly entitled to have opinions. We all have people in our family who have problems. It is absolutely disgusting that her own father would say that and if you think that is normal, then it goes a long way to explain why there are so many troubled people living on our streets today.
Perhaps you should try visiting a well-knit African/Caribbean Community to see how they do things rather than viewing the dysfunctional ones as normal?

What amazes me is how quickly some folks leap to air their nauseating attitudes even in the face of a tragic death.

You mean nauseating attitudes like a white van driver must have deliberately killed a drunk black woman? I totally agree.

Perhaps he was badly trained and didn't have a clue what was going on. After all, he only had to patiently wait a while -- Naomi had regularly danced in front of the traffic at that place.

Yes of course.
And the fact that loads of people regularly watched her recklessly endanger her life, yourself included and thought it was amusing and DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT has nothing to with it right?

Let's hope the inquest is able to establish why he was not aware of this particular hazard on the route,

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a jury of 12 people that's going to blame the security company for not having a list of people in the country who may like to dance in the middle of the streets for van drivers to be aware of.
Which is of course a shame.
Personally, i think they should have put her picture in the Highway Code and made it part of the theory test.

That people really believe because Naomi was one of the street-life she must also be fair game for running down and killing is disappointing....

Well, if you feel that blaming her family and the social services and the local community for failing her rather than the person who most likely ran over her equates to that, then I think you may not be familiar with the terms "logic" and "argument".

and typical of a certain kind of white-trash, fascist mindset, if I may make the observation

Quite why you are bringing your own family background into this is beyond me, Jonti.
As an African woman who is proud of her heritage, I find it sad that so many white people refer to themselves as trash.

 

[lighterthief]

Perhaps he was badly trained and didn't have a clue what was going on. After all, he only had to patiently wait a while -- Naomi had regularly danced in front of the traffic at that place.

Let's hope the inquest is able to establish why he was not aware of this particular hazard on the route, or, if he had been delayed in this way before, why he chose to respond with a potentially homicidal course of action.

Who knows how it really happened though, hey? Not the cleverest of ideas to dance about in the traffic. I doubt the van driver is feeling great about what happened.

 

[ovaltina]

Is this the right place for a bunfight?