Why are Leave voters expected to compromise?

[Nik]

Hi Everybody,

Not being a Leave expert myself, I often wonder what the origin is of the Remainers call for compromise the Leave side should partake in. Let alone that it was quite clear that the Britons were told once and a again that their decision would be final and that the result would be implemented (I would say, implemented without any compromise whatsoever), let's look at it from another side.

For argument's sake, let's for one minute look at the situation as if the shoe were on the other foot. That is, Remain would have won the referendum with 52% and Leave would have peaked at 48%. I know, an unpopular stance, but bear with me.


First of all: would Remain have 'compromised' with Leave in order to 'get the country back together again'?
Secondly: which elements would they have sacrificed, if any?

As I understood, the most important 7 things the Leave voters want to achieve are (in random order):
1. No longer be a part of (the rules of) the EU's Customs Union;
2. No longer be a part of (the rules of) the EU's Single Market;
3. Regain control of UK's borders by deciding on a case-by-case basis which people get to enter the land as well as which people do not;
4. Make the country's own laws;
5. Have the highest Court to which one has to answer and in fact of the nation be the British Supreme(?) Court in stead of the ECJ;
6. Get rid of the Common Agricultural Policy;
7. Get rid of the Common Fishing Policy.

Now, (again for argument's sake) let's say that in order to 'compromise' the Remainers had to give up 3* of the above 7* items, which would they choose to part themselves of?

I've not yet seen that question raised when a Remainer talks about a need for the Leave side to 'compromise' since figures are so close. And again, for a moment let's park the whole issue of it having been a binary choice.

I haven't seen anyone present the above hypothetical casus and should someone already have, please accept my apologies for having wasted your time and consider my message as if it had never been posted.

* Granted, 3 out of 7 doesn't accurately reflect the 52%/48% and in fact the Remainers should be prepared to give up more than merely three items, but for now let's leave (no pun intended) it at that.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Because... fuck ‘em

 

[maomao]

Who is expecting leave voters to compromise?

 

[eoin_k]

Nik, that wasn't the position of prominent leave campaigners during the referendum:

 

[eoin_k]

Part of the current clusterfuck arises because, however reluctantly, the 48% all voted for the same thing, whereas there was never a clear consensus on what leave actually meant among the 52%.

 

[Ax^]

got to love the leave side still clearly missing the point

that its not remainers fucking up Brexit process, it the people who called for the vote

 

[xenon]

Hi Everybody,

Not being a Leave expert myself, I often wonder what the origin is of the Remainers call for compromise the Leave side should partake in. Let alone that it was quite clear that the Britons were told once and a again that their decision would be final and that the result would be implemented (I would say, implemented without any compromise whatsoever), let's look at it from another side.

For argument's sake, let's for one minute look at the situation as if the shoe were on the other foot. That is, Remain would have won the referendum with 52% and Leave would have peaked at 48%. I know, an unpopular stance, but bear with me.


First of all: would Remain have 'compromised' with Leave in order to 'get the country back together again'?
Secondly: which elements would they have sacrificed, if any?

As I understood, the most important 7 things the Leave voters want to achieve are (in random order):
1. No longer be a part of (the rules of) the EU's Customs Union;
2. No longer be a part of (the rules of) the EU's Single Market;
3. Regain control of UK's borders by deciding on a case-by-case basis which people get to enter the land as well as which people do not;
4. Make the country's own laws;
5. Have the highest Court to which one has to answer and in fact of the nation be the British Supreme(?) Court in stead of the ECJ;
6. Get rid of the Common Agricultural Policy;
7. Get rid of the Common Fishing Policy.

Now, (again for argument's sake) let's say that in order to 'compromise' the Remainers had to give up 3* of the above 7* items, which would they choose to part themselves of?

I've not yet seen that question raised when a Remainer talks about a need for the Leave side to 'compromise' since figures are so close. And again, for a moment let's park the whole issue of it having been a binary choice.

I haven't seen anyone present the above hypothetical casus and should someone already have, please accept my apologies for having wasted your time and consider my message as if it had never been posted.

* Granted, 3 out of 7 doesn't accurately reflect the 52%/48% and in fact the Remainers should be prepared to give up more than merely three items, but for now let's leave (no pun intended) it at that.

This is largely bollocks though. This idea most leave voters wanted to exit the customs union or were particularly excercised by fishing rights or the CAP.

And as for the creapping lie that leavers voted out because they want a no deal exit, just whilst we're here, that can fuck of as well.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Everyone's expected to compromise about everything, that's how society works.

 

[scifisam]

It wasn't clear that there would be no compromise. That was never stated anywhere. It would be a ridiculously stupid thing to say, so I understand you thinking it might have been part of a campaign that was characterised by extreme stupidity on both sides, but this is one of the ones they missed.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Considering the government have been given quite a few pops at a vote....maybe it's time to afford the voting public the same option?

 

[Yossarian]

Part of the current clusterfuck arises because, however reluctantly, the 48% all voted for the same thing, whereas there was never a clear consensus on what leave actually meant among the 52%.

Yep - there must have been at least some Leave voters expecting a deal similar to the one in Norway, which voted 52%-48% in 1994 to stay out of the EU.

 

[Supine]

Whatever the UK thought of leave there would be compromise because the 'how' was negotiated with a third party. By definition negotiations lead to compromises to find the best solution for both parties.

Although the idea of leaving is just plain stupid

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Uh, remain voters are constantly asked to compromise - or rather they’re not asked, they’re told “fuck off you lost you’re getting a Brexit”.

Leave voters are not being asked to compromise with the remain position, there are just different factions about what could possibly work at all.

(Actually no voters are being asked about this stuff anyway, to point out the obvious.)

 

[Pickman's model]

Considering the government have been given quite a few pops at a vote....maybe it's time to afford the voting public the same option?

But that would be clearly undemocratic

 

[likesfish]

they only just scraped a win and have no idea what Brexit means its complicated Europes still going to be next door so we are going to have to deal with them.

 

[philosophical]

The only thing on the ballot paper was leave, there was no list of options.
If you voted leave, you are one of the winners, the problem seems to be the practicalities in making your victory happen.
I don't expect compromise, I say to leave voters you won, you make it happen.
It turns out it can't be done.
The lament now seems to be 'just because it can't be done doesn't mean it shouldn't happen'.

 

[maomao]

It turns out it can't be done.

It can be. It seems that it can't be done in a manner acceptable to the state or to capital though.

 

[Serge Forward]

Has anyone in this thread said "will of the people" yet?

 

[philosophical]

It can be. It seems that it can't be done in a manner acceptable to the state or to capital though.

What about the manner acceptable to Geography?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Who is expecting leave voters to compromise?

Reality.

 

[maomao]

What about the manner acceptable to Geography?

Geography or geology? We're on the same tectonic plate but there's a sea in between. Sounds like a metaphor for Norway 2.0 to me.

 

[philosophical]

Geography or geology? We're on the same tectonic plate but there's a sea in between. Sounds like a metaphor for Norway 2.0 to me.

There is a sea between six counties in Ulster and the rest if the Republic of Ireland?
First I've heard of it.

 

[maomao]

There is a sea between six counties in Ulster and the rest if the Republic of Ireland?
First I've heard of it.

There is no sea in between the Republic of Ireland and the occupied territories in the North but I can think of a different solution for that.

 

[prunus]

There is a sea between six counties in Ulster and the rest if the Republic of Ireland?
First I've heard of it.

It’s the Holy See.

<Basil Brush joke emphasis ejacualtion removed because it looked... wrong.... in context>

 

[Dogsauce]

I noticed Kuessenberg referred to May’s withdrawal agreement as a ‘compromise deal with the EU’ in her latest BBC article - not even subtle bias in how stuff like this is presented. I don’t see any shifting on those ‘red lines’.

 

[philosophical]

There is no sea in between the Republic of Ireland and the occupied territories in the North but I can think of a different solution for that.

Solution!?
Go for it, do tell.
If you are a leave voter please don't compromise in your answer.

 

[T & P]

Assuming the OP is genuine (no offence) and despite the fact that it has been discussed thoroughly already, I see three reasons (those on to;dl mood can skip to the last paragraph if so inclined ):

- Brexit was thoroughly mis-sold and oversimplified during the run up to the referendum vote. From promises of massive £300m a week funding for the NHS to assurances the UK would very easily strike highly favourable trade deals with both the EU and countries around the world (LOL x times a thousand), a great many people voted for a set of pledges that for the most part now look to either amount to little or no improvement to life in the EU, or were a bald faced fucking lie that was withdrawn not even 48 hours after the vote. Not to mention the Irish border issue, which not only any Leave politician had any clue or plan to solve then, they still don’t now.

- The margin of victory for Leave was not only fairly small at around 2%, but there was ample indications of outside interference promoting the Leave that would have certainly helped along their victory. In addition voter participation wasn’t high at all. Bottom line: even if ignore the nefarious foreign manipulation campaign on social media and accept the result as legitimate, this was by no mean a resounding answer by the British public. Leave won by little more than the skin of its teeth. And the fact that British citizens living overseas (IIRC) is an unprecedented stitch up, and a disgraceful one at that. Clear mandate from the public there is certainly not.

- Voting on the EU membership is not like voting on a general election. Unlike the latter, which if the government turns up to be shit it can be easily removed at the next election, rejoining the EU would be far more difficult and lengthy even if the British public turned around and showed almost a unanimous desire to rejoin. This decision might just be non-reversible, for a generation at least.

So in short, given that many people voted for something that simply doesn’t exist or is highly distorted at best and more importantly that to many it will no longer be clear at all we’ll be better off out, that the margin of the victory was very narrow, and that this issue will both have massively significant consequences and if we change our mind it would be extremely difficult to reverse it, a second vote is not only a reasonable request but the only decent option at this point.

 

[Chemical needs]

Has anyone in this thread said "will of the people" yet?

Has anyone said "traitor" or "betrayed" yet?

 

[Dogsauce]

I wonder how many other places this exact same text has been posted, and who might be paying for it. Seeing more of these sort of new member posts lately.

 

[keybored]

I wonder how many other places this exact same text has been posted, and who might be paying for it. Seeing more of these sort of new member posts lately.

If only there were some way of checking.