Who's been to look at St Pancras, then?

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The Eurostar first class is still not open. Have to sit around with the proles whilst waiting for your train. An utter disgrace.

 

[laptop]

Have to sit around with the proles whilst waiting for your train. An utter disgrace.

So where was the 1er classe lounge at Waterloo, then?

 

[maes]

I just did a couple of eurostar trips through it. I'm pretty disappointed to be honest, they could have done something really interesting, as you say, mixing the trains with other facilities à la Hauptbanhof, and instead they built a giant wanky 'mall'. ugh.

Also, the exit from the eurostar, train to freedom, takes an AGE, through loads of gas-chamber style tunnels. Why can't we have a gare du nord style train - station exit?

 

[Crispy]

I just did a couple of eurostar trips through it. I'm pretty disappointed to be honest, they could have done something really interesting, as you say, mixing the trains with other facilities à la Hauptbanhof, and instead they built a giant wanky 'mall'. ugh.

The Hauptbanhof does not have international services, and therfore the parts of the station can be intermingled. Passport control/customs/security at St.Pancras means that the eurostar trains and platforms have to be segregated.

Also, the exit from the eurostar, train to freedom, takes an AGE, through loads of gas-chamber style tunnels. Why can't we have a gare du nord style train - station exit?

Because the 'front' of the station opens straight onto Euston Road, which is not a 'pick up and put down' road. The side road between St.P and KingsX is the sensible place to spew out passengers, as there is space for bus stops, taxis etc.

These problems are ultimately the result of refurbishing an old building for a new use. Compromises would alwyas have to be made.

 

[kyser_soze]

On the champagne bar...precisely the sort of thing the Victorians (who invented modern shopping) would have approved of before heading off to the continent IMV...

 

[teuchter]

Did a return to Brussels the other day and I was extremly impressed. The station is very intuitive in terms of users finding their way around, with none of the "war zone" feeling that large halls like Waterloo create, with human traffic criss-crossing each other in a haphazard fashion.

Might not be entirely fair to compare it with Waterloo where there are probably about five times as many trains arriving and departing.

Compared to Waterloo where no parts of the Eurostar were visible, I loved the train level. It presented the trains in a human fashion, such that the trains are not overly intrusive on the station as a whole. I know they are the whole point of being there, but I do like the fact that a bunch of anoraks have not managed to fetishize the trains.

where is there left to fetishise trains if not in a train station??

 

[laptop]

The Hauptbanhof does not have international services

This is Berlin Hbf? With departures for Warsaw at 16:37, 21:36 and 06:36?

 

[teuchter]

This is Berlin Hbf? With departures for Warsaw at 16:37, 21:36 and 06:36?

They aren't controlled with bag checks etc. though.

 

[Poi E]

where is there left to fetishise trains if not in a train station??

Youtube and other places of anorak convergence.

They have struck a decent balance between security and visibility. TBH I was surprised to see just the glass walls and not something more substantial.

 

[marty21]

The Eurostar first class is still not open. Have to sit around with the proles whilst waiting for your train. An utter disgrace.

indeed

tbh, i'd be tempted to quaff a champagne if i was off to paris, not that bothered that there isn't real ale at baby betjiman's , didn't notice if there were any other bars though, is it just the champagne bar and baby betjimans?

 

[Crispy]

This is Berlin Hbf? With departures for Warsaw at 16:37, 21:36 and 06:36?

oh. blame wikipedia, it only mentions german connections
besides, the UK border control is much stricter.

 

[Xanadu]

This is Berlin Hbf? With departures for Warsaw at 16:37, 21:36 and 06:36?

I went from Berlin to Krakow from Hbf IIRC. There was no border control - that was done on the train at Frankfurt.

 

[lang rabbie]

Because the 'front' of the station opens straight onto Euston Road, which is not a 'pick up and put down' road. The side road between St.P and KingsX is the sensible place to spew out passengers, as there is space for bus stops, taxis etc.

There could have been very effective taxi drop off and pick up at concourse level using the original Victorian roadways.

The wrong-headedness of the currently circulation for taxis (and the long walks this imposes on people who have mobility problems) is partly down to the dual level internal circulation that had to be adopted because the UK still wants to keep the "wrong sort" of foreigners out, but has been reinforced by the "security" paranoia since September 2001 about allowing vehicle movements near transport teminals. Since July 2007 the restrictions have got even tougher. Will the front drive end up only be used for the hotel???

 

[Crispy]

Good question. That makes me think that the works to the hotel might be preventing front entrance drop off for the moment. However, if you look at the floor plans (availabe here: http://www.stpancras.com/about-stpancras/amenities/) you can see how optimised the layout is for lower-floor drop off. Coming in the 'front' entrance, the first theing you see is a divider between you and the trains. You have do go around, go down a lift or stairs and then into the concourse/departures. Only expection is the GNER lines, which can be got to by going past the champagne bar.

I'll put the plans online - hang on a sec.

 

[laptop]

The wrong-headedness of the currently circulation for taxis (and the long walks this imposes on people who have mobility problems) is partly down to the dual level internal circulation that had to be adopted because the UK still wants to keep the "wrong sort" of foreigners out

Aye - thinking of the Berlin Hbf comparison, it's weird that getting from London to Brussels on Friday will involve more "Ihr Papieren" nonsense than did getting from London to Berlin via the Iron Curtain checkpoint at Helmstedt in 1979.

Another thing down to Margaret Thatcher and the refusal to join Europe.

but has been reinforced by the "security" paranoia since September 2001 about allowing vehicle movements near transport teminals. Since July 2007 the restrictions have got even tougher. Will the front drive end up only be used for the hotel???

Probably

The bollards round the entrance on Pancras Road look like a post-design afterthought - as were the passport checks at Bruxelles Midi, built in the expectation that the UK would see sense and join Schengen.

 

[Crispy]

Gah, these look shite

platform level

downstairs

As you can see, no sensible traveller would want to get dropped off at the 'front' entrance - it's miles away from anywhere. It makes sense really - you want to spread the access to the platforms out as much as possible to avoid bottlenecks.

 

[laptop]

Gah, these look shite

Slightly FAQ-busting but WTF:

It's the "key" that disturbs me - a site about "amenities" iis reduced to using the retail opportunity synergistic letting plan

--------------------------------------
E2A: fullsize images. Photobucket

 

[lang rabbie]

I was thinking more of those of us meeting aged parents etc. coming from the east midlands rather than possible inconvenience for a tryst in Paris with your lover.

My crumblies still have to walk the length of the East Midlands Trains (formerly Midland Mainline but never GNER!!!) before they reach a concourse, where they then have to go down an escalator, double back on themselves, go across the full width of the station, and they might then find the start of a taxi queue, which is considerably more exposed to the elements than the former covered carriage drive next to the old booking office.

 

[teuchter]

Gah, these look shite


As you can see, no sensible traveller would want to get dropped off at the 'front' entrance - it's miles away from anywhere. It makes sense really - you want to spread the access to the platforms out as much as possible to avoid bottlenecks.

Yes, when I was there I had the distinct impression that the intention was for the main access (for people on buses/taxis/feet) to be the one halfway along the East side. It certainly makes sense logically, as it brings you right into the middle of the plan. It will also make more sense once they've finished doing up Kings Cross too, because this will be a big public area between the two buildings (I think?).

It is a bit unfortunate, though, that if you enter the building this way (especially if you go straight into the Eurostar bit) you don't really experience the main roof... I suppose you do once you eventually get on to the platform, for all the five minute's you'll be there.

I guess that's why I made the comments in the OP about the station functions feeling a bit subsiduary to the retail ones. If you're catching the Eurostar, most of the time you spend in the station will be waiting to go through security and then waiting to be called for your train. It's a shame that this waiting time can't be spent within the main dramatic space of the building - it's mainly the shoppers who get that.

(PS would like to see those plans in more detail but couldn't find them on the website - where are they Crispy?)

 

[teuchter]

I notice that it looks like the idea is to move the access to the underground to the corner of the new bit eventually, which would explain why the existing arrangement feels a bit odd.

 

[William of Walworth]

Youtube and other places of anorak convergence.

They have struck a decent balance between security and visibility. TBH I was surprised to see just the glass walls and not something more substantial.

That was essentially my reaction.

 

[Crispy]

(PS would like to see those plans in more detail but couldn't find them on the website - where are they Crispy?)

Links are in the top right box on that 'amenities' page. They're PDF - very detailed too, look like they're taken straight from the architect's plans.

 

[maes]

As you can see, no sensible traveller would want to get dropped off at the 'front' entrance - it's miles away from anywhere. It makes sense really - you want to spread the access to the platforms out as much as possible to avoid bottlenecks.

I wasn't talking about the distance from train to street, but the distance from train to the point where friends and family meet you, ie. out of the eurostar system, in the station. Totally agree that you can't have the main entrance at the 'front'.

Point is that the arrivals hall on your plan involves people getting off the trains to walk for ages before getting belched into the main hall. It's a total waste of time & space - there is no need for an arrivals hall, look at gare du nord, the end of the platform leads to the concourse without any fucking about. At st p's there're loads of abandoned customs style posts and mysterious hallways, why the difference in post-travelling security arrangements?

 

[Crispy]

It will also make more sense once they've finished doing up Kings Cross too, because this will be a big public area between the two buildings (I think?).

That's right. Eventually, the new concourse for KingsX will be over the road. Here's a draft plan (no building deisgns are finalised)

 

[Crispy]

Mae - I'm guessing that on arrival, the first thing you want to do is make your connection - and that'll be another train, a tube or a taxi. All of which are best done from the lower level. And when king's Cross gets redone - at the midpoint.

I agree with all the points about not spending time under the big roof, but any consession to this would result in a less efficient plan, IMO. And stations have to be about efficiency or they don't work.

 

[maes]

Agreed. I'm basically trying to say I think it's inefficient, but I'm really not expressing myself well I think.

Oh well.

 

[teuchter]

That's right. Eventually, the new concourse for KingsX will be over the road. Here's a draft plan (no building deisgns are finalised)

More info here.

I'm quite looking forward to seeing Kings Cross once they get rid of that crappy low-level structure currently tacked onto the front of it.

Here's what it used to look like:

 

[teuchter]

I agree with all the points about not spending time under the big roof, but any consession to this would result in a less efficient plan, IMO. And stations have to be about efficiency or they don't work.

I think there could be a concession to this without compromising efficency. It would probably compromise the desirability of the retail space, however.

 

[kyser_soze]

Sexy. That's all I'm saying...

 

[lang rabbie]

Sexy. That's all I'm saying...

If it ever gets built like that. - The last I heard the cost consultants were looking for savings - the ideas was that the new Northern Ticket Hall for Kings Cross St Pancras Tube station and the new Western Concourse for Kings Cross mainline to be built on top of it should be planned as one project so they could be constructed within a fixed price budget.

There were suggestions that the elegant semi-circular roof for the Western Concourse might not happen. Anyone got more insider knowledge.