Which garden fence side is my responsibility?

[bellaozzydog]

Over the twenty plus years we’ve been here, sometimes it’s both the fence and the post that fail after a big storm, sometimes it’s just the fence with the post still standing and reusable.

We in fact had a couple of concrete posts that just crumbled away. FFIW they were already in place when we moved in so they were several decades old.

The main objective of concrete fence posts is there is much less potential to have to remove a snapped fence post and the hateful boot of concrete it’s stuck in the ground with.

A job I regularly got as a teenager

 

[Skim]

The main objective of concrete fence posts is there is much less potential to have to remove a snapped fence post and the hateful boot of concrete it’s stuck in the ground with.

A job I regularly got as a teenager

Come to think of it, my neighbours did get a hateful boot of concrete in their back garden in the process of erecting our new fence

 

[WouldBe]

What happened to the 'if you maintain it, you own it'? or was that just folklore.

 

[bimble]

i'm in a similar boring situation (tree fence storm).
People saying just look at your title or deeds are wrong, annoyingly.
There's no Ts or Hs on mine at all.
It seems like people getting into fights about fences is the kind of thing that lawyers rely on to pay their mortgages.

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/27/drawing-the-line-on-boundaries/

In my case i think i'm just going to see if the tree owner is willing to help and if not just get on with it myself.

 

[Epona]

Trees hedges and fences will not necessarily be marked on the plans, but the boundary of your land will be - if it is inside that boundary it is yours and your responsibility and as long as it isn't providing a nuisance or encroaching into neighbouring properties in a way that is unsafe or causing a nuisance you can do what you like with it.

 

[bimble]

fences will not necessarily be marked on the plans, but the boundary of your land will be - if it is inside that boundary it is yours

thing is that the fence is usually located at the edge of your land, where the red line in your title plan is. Which is also the edge of your neighbours land & same place as their red line. I don't think anyone gets confused about stuff thats clearly inside the red line just the stuff that is on it. Like the middle of this feckin massive branch.

 

[philosophical]

I rang land registry and for free they told me all the fences along out bit were shared responsibility.

 

[Epona]

thing is that the fence is usually located at the edge of your land, where the red line in your title plan is. Which is also the edge of your neighbours land & same place as their red line. I don't think anyone gets confused about stuff thats clearly inside the red line just the stuff that is on it. Like the middle of this feckin massive branch.

View attachment 311166

Cost to deal with that should be shared equally between you and your neighbour if it is on the boundary between your properties unless it was clearly in one or the other properties to start with - or if it is safe you could just come to a mutual agreement to leave it there I guess, instead of endlessly tidying up after nature Great habitat for insects and insect eating birds and mammals.

 

[two sheds]

There's a disused path between my garden and my neighbour's, going down to the valley. I'm not sure who (if either of us) owns it. I have looked at the deeds but I need to measure properly some time.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Never mind two sheds , I'm waiting for two fences to give his opinion.

 

[two sheds]

well there are two hedges - one each side of the path

 

[bimble]

Cost to deal with that should be shared equally between you and your neighbour if it is on the boundary between your properties unless it was clearly in one or the other properties to start with - or if it is safe you could just come to a mutual agreement to leave it there I guess, instead of endlessly tidying up after nature Great habitat for insects and insect eating birds and mammals.

Definitely not safe as it is, being propped up by the remains of fence there and whilst it was clearly on their side when it was attached to the tree last week it isn't anymore obvs. I've sent them an email asking what the process is.
Loads of trees damaged around here, its sad to see.

 

[Epona]

If it came off the tree that is on their side of the boundary (if the tree itself is on their side), or a tree that was growing from their side fell down it is their responsibility.
It is which side of the boundary that the tree is growing from that determines responsibility in a case like this, not where the limbs end up.

 

[bimble]

If it came off the tree that is on their side of the boundary (if the tree itself is on their side), or a tree that was growing from their side fell down it is their responsibility.
It is which side of the boundary that the tree is growing from that determines responsibility in a case like this, not where the limbs end up.

i think thats true for the work of removing the actual tree but repairing the fence may be a separate conversation, will find out.

 

[Epona]

i think thats true for the work of removing the actual tree but repairing the fence may be a separate conversation, will find out.

I think if the tree was in one garden and came down damaging other property (ie the fence) then that would also be the responsibility of whoever owned the property where the tree was in the first place.

If it came down through a roof from a neighbouring property, then the homeowner would not be going "oh we might have to share the cost of this" - they'd be expecting the tree owner to claim on insurance to pay to repair any damage or stump up for the cost themselves and I think the same applies here.

If the tree wasn't in either property but had fallen and caused damage, I'd be looking to whoever was responsible for management of that bit of forestry (there isn't really much un-owned land in this country).

 

[bimble]

I think if the tree was in one garden and came down damaging other property (ie the fence) then that would also be the responsibility of whoever owned the property where the tree was in the first place.

If it came down through a roof from a neighbouring property, then the homeowner would not be going "oh we might have to share the cost of this" - they'd be expecting the tree owner to claim on insurance to pay to repair any damage or stump up for the cost themselves and I think the same applies here.

If the tree wasn't in either property but had fallen and caused damage, I'd be looking to whoever was responsible for management of that bit of forestry (there isn't really much un-owned land in this country).

I'll be chuffed if thats the case, if i don't have to deal with insurance or try to bodge it myself or anything. It's national trust land the tree stands on so they will definitely know, will have loads of experience with this sort of thing.

 

[Epona]

I'll be chuffed if thats the case, if i don't have to deal with insurance or anything. It's national trust land the tree stands on so they will definitely know, will have loads of experience with this sort of thing.

OK well if the tree was on National Trust land and fell and damaged your and your neighbour's property, then it is the National Trust that needs to rectify that, not you or your neighbour. They will have insurance to cover this sort of thing so you wouldn't be taking funds from them even.

Get in contact with them ASAP to get it sorted.

 

[platinumsage]

OK well if the tree was on National Trust land and fell and damaged your and your neighbour's property, then it is the National Trust that needs to rectify that, not you or your neighbour.

Get in contact with them ASAP to get it sorted.

Not so, as we established upthread. It's nature's fault unless the NT can be found negligent (e.g. they inspected the tree previously and determined it was rotten).

Who is Liable When a Tree Falls on a Neighbor\'s Property

www.georgejohnsonins.com

 

[Epona]

Not so, as we established upthread. It's nature's fault unless the NT can be found negligent (e.g. they inspected the tree previously and determined it was rotten).

Who is Liable When a Tree Falls on a Neighbor\'s Property

www.georgejohnsonins.com

And that also states that the owner of the tree should claim for any costs for damage to neighbouring properties on their insurance - trust me, the NT WILL have insurance for this.

It is wise to contact them about this before taking any other action. At very least they ought to remove the tree.

 

[platinumsage]

And that also states that the owner of the tree should claim for any costs for damage to neighbouring properties on their insurance - trust me, the NT WILL have insurance for this.

No it doesn't. Maybe the NT will sort it out of good will, or because it's useful for them to do so, but it's not something that they "need to rectify".

They will have insurance for liability due to negligence, but they won't have insurance for things they aren't liable for, that would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[Epona]

How can someone have something on their land that can potentially plough through your roof and they aren't responsible for it? I can get fined if a can ends up in the wrong rubbish bin ffs.

 

[platinumsage]

How can someone have something on their land that can potentially plough through your roof and they aren't responsible for it? I can get fined if a can ends up in the wrong rubbish bin ffs.

In the same way people aren't responsible for the actions of their cats.

 

[Epona]

In the same way people aren't responsible for the actions of their cats.

My cats* are indoor only so if that is aimed at me it has failed a bit

*Edit: Cat... just one now, still say cats by default but just Jakey left

Yeah I get the point though, "act of god" or whathaveyou.

 

[platinumsage]

My cats* are indoor only so if that is aimed at me it has failed a bit

*Edit: Cat... just one now, still say cats by default but just Jakey left

It wasn’t directed at you, just the first example that came to mind as someone is currently demanding more biscuits.

If people were liable for damage caused by trees on their land getting blown over, landowners would just fell all their trees that were in falling distance of roads, boundaries etc. Not a good outcome.

 

[Epona]

It wasn’t directed at you, just the first example that came to mind as someone is currently demanding more biscuits.

If people were liable for damage caused by trees on their land getting blown over, landowners would just fell all their trees that were in falling distance of roads, boundaries etc. Not a good outcome.

Whatever the current situation, I do think if a tree on land owned by some big landowner falls on your house, it really ought to be their insurance that sorts it out.

Very little land in the UK is not owned by anyone, and the idea of big landowners just saying "nah, fuckit" does not sit well with me.

 

[bimble]

Not so, as we established upthread. It's nature's fault unless the NT can be found negligent (e.g. they inspected the tree previously and determined it was rotten).

Who is Liable When a Tree Falls on a Neighbor\'s Property

www.georgejohnsonins.com

American link that but I think you’re right, good info upthread about a national trust tree falling on a person legal case, where trust was found not liable.

 

[cupid_stunt]

i'm in a similar boring situation (tree fence storm).
People saying just look at your title or deeds are wrong, annoyingly.
There's no Ts or Hs on mine at all.
It seems like people getting into fights about fences is the kind of thing that lawyers rely on to pay their mortgages.

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/27/drawing-the-line-on-boundaries/

In my case i think i'm just going to see if the tree owner is willing to help and if not just get on with it myself.

I am guessing your place is fairly old? In that case it's unlikely to be marked with any Ts or Hs, but most plans will have such markings.

 

[cupid_stunt]

And that also states that the owner of the tree should claim for any costs for damage to neighbouring properties on their insurance - trust me, the NT WILL have insurance for this.

It is wise to contact them about this before taking any other action. At very least they ought to remove the tree.

Unless there's negligence involved, it's is not the responsibility of the tree owner, from that link you were replying too.

When a tree falls over onto a neighbor's property, that neighbor should submit a claim to his or her insurance company immediately. The insurance company is usually responsible for taking care of the damages. This is true if the tree fell over due to an act of nature. For example, a healthy tree that falls over during a tornado, hurricane, wind storm or winter storm would not be the responsibility of the homeowner. Since the homeowner living on the property where the fallen tree was rooted did not intentionally push the tree over, nature is responsible. This means that the neighbor's insurance policy should cover it under perils.

However, there are some cases where a homeowner could be held liable. If the tree fell on the neighbor's home when the homeowner was trying to cut down the tree without professional help, the damage would be the homeowner's responsibility. Also, if the tree was dying, unstable or diseased and the homeowner knew about it, he or she could be liable if it falls over on its own. He or she could also be liable if it falls over during a very light storm that would not normally knock over a tree. When homeowners know they have dying, diseased or unstable trees, it is their responsibility to take steps to prevent them from causing severe damage.

 

[bimble]

ah crap i really don't know what to do for the best. Have sent email to NT but should i try to contact insurance company without delaying now too?
Its not blocking access so its not an emergency of any kind. I have never made a claim on insurance before and that feels daunting.

 

[cupid_stunt]

How can someone have something on their land that can potentially plough through your roof and they aren't responsible for it? I can get fined if a can ends up in the wrong rubbish bin ffs.

Whatever the current situation, I do think if a tree on land owned by some big landowner falls on your house, it really ought to be their insurance that sorts it out.

Very little land in the UK is not owned by anyone, and the idea of big landowners just saying "nah, fuckit" does not sit well with me.

But, that isn't the case, there has to be negligence involved, I posted this on the storm eunice thread -

Here's an interesting link to a case of where a branch fell from a NT tree, causing serious injuries to a visitor to one of their properties, the court ruled that the NT wasn't negligence and dismissed the case.

https://www.zurich.co.uk/news-and-insight/the-extent-of-duty-of-care-in-tree-maintenance