What's Michael Moore been up to?
- Thread starter TomUS
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elbows
Well-Known Member
This is why his character (and I suspect ego) took such a battering in Team America: World Police.
BBC - Movies - interview - Matt Stone
BBC - Movies - interview - Matt Stone
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
That seems fair enough. The cartoon bit in Bowling for Columbine was particularly idiotic and I can see why someone would be offended to be associated with it. It's a very good example of Moore failing to give his audience any credit at all.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I admit that I actually liked that cartoon and probably posted it to u75 more than once over the years.
I think its got something to do with me finding some strange release in seeing idiotic, bloody and horrific historical situations, and their modern perverse consequences, expressed in a suitably idiotic manner. No matter how much I moan about crass, sloppy and inaccurate stuff, glimmers of interesting truths can still show themselves in deeply flawed works. When approached from the right angle and with the right attitude, at some points in my life I would have said that the same is even true of conspiracy theories (e.g. the playful way Robert Anton Wilson treated them) but really the stench of things like anti-semitism got too much for me to play with that kind of shit and extract any kind of even perverse value from it.
I think its got something to do with me finding some strange release in seeing idiotic, bloody and horrific historical situations, and their modern perverse consequences, expressed in a suitably idiotic manner. No matter how much I moan about crass, sloppy and inaccurate stuff, glimmers of interesting truths can still show themselves in deeply flawed works. When approached from the right angle and with the right attitude, at some points in my life I would have said that the same is even true of conspiracy theories (e.g. the playful way Robert Anton Wilson treated them) but really the stench of things like anti-semitism got too much for me to play with that kind of shit and extract any kind of even perverse value from it.
Yes, that and the pipeline through Afghan. He hurt his movie with those two.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Roger and me is an excellent documentary (though I've not seen it in year) and a very personal film for Moore.
His TV show was also very good (shaming a U.S. Health Insurance companies into providing health care) riding around the U.S. South in a pink RV called the "sodom mobile" with a group of gay rights activists breaking anti sodomy legislation in a variety of states. Even had a go at Fred Phelps before anyone had heard of Westborough Baptist Church.
brix_kitty
minority of one
Is he referring to the "A Brief History of the United States of America" cartoon in the middle of the film? Cos that's not right after his interview, it's around 10-15 minutes (and a number of other interviews, including Marilyn Manson) later. I wouldn't have associated the two, I don't think it's even that "South Park-esque".
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I saw Where to Invade Next tonight. Without being too SPOILERY.................................
...he goes round a number of largely European countries and waxes lyrical about their paid holidays, gender equality, school food and prisons, comparing it all to the way America does things. Must admit, I thought it was weak. Whilst it's obviously nice to see that in an era of neo-liberalism, there's still the chance for decent services or legal protection, it says nothing of value at all about neo-liberalism. It also says very little about the forces that produced or are defending those services. Even worse it's massively romanticised about countries that themselves have significant inequalities. That's covered in this review:
Where to Invade Next review – Michael Moore gets happy with a sugar-binge idea-stealing session
Worse though, he interviews bosses and workers about things like decent holiday provision, getting close to saying they both have common interests. To add to a perfect night at the cinema, the person I had to get past on my row to go to the bogs objected vociferously and I ended up calling him a fucking prick!
The other thing, whilst I though it was an awful film (or at least had awful politics behind it), it was sad to see Moore looking quite frail. He's never looked 'healthy', but appeared to be getting close to having mobility problems.
Wiki says he had pneumonia earlier this year.
...he goes round a number of largely European countries and waxes lyrical about their paid holidays, gender equality, school food and prisons, comparing it all to the way America does things. Must admit, I thought it was weak. Whilst it's obviously nice to see that in an era of neo-liberalism, there's still the chance for decent services or legal protection, it says nothing of value at all about neo-liberalism. It also says very little about the forces that produced or are defending those services. Even worse it's massively romanticised about countries that themselves have significant inequalities. That's covered in this review:
Where to Invade Next review – Michael Moore gets happy with a sugar-binge idea-stealing session
Worse though, he interviews bosses and workers about things like decent holiday provision, getting close to saying they both have common interests. To add to a perfect night at the cinema, the person I had to get past on my row to go to the bogs objected vociferously and I ended up calling him a fucking prick!
The other thing, whilst I though it was an awful film (or at least had awful politics behind it), it was sad to see Moore looking quite frail. He's never looked 'healthy', but appeared to be getting close to having mobility problems.
Wiki says he had pneumonia earlier this year.I saw it too & thought it was pretty good but not great. He does cherry pick the best in European systems.....making it look like they are a paradise, while ignoring other major problems in those countries. He even admits early on that he'll be "picking the flowers" of the foreign systems. He doesn't go into why the way America does things is so bad, but pointing out that things can be done so much better is a first step. I find it hard to believe that European business owners are all as enlightened & altruistic as he presents them. I missed the anger in his previous stuff.
And he does look physically sick.
And he does look physically sick.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I think it's okay as a film, joined together with a narrative. All the different visits work and he does show the irrationalities of American neo-liberalism (even if you end up a bit tired of it by the end as he lands in yet another country). It's engaging and he's engaging. It's just that it's not only over simplified, but actually goes as far as dishonesty with regard to his portrayal of enlightened European social democracy. And all the stuff about bosses being happy if the workers are happy particularly irked me. He tells a good emotional/emotive tale, but its the underlying politics I have problem with.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yep, Pilger's films feel more 'grown up'. I was probably a bit too harsh on the Moore film above. It has an entirely decent and worthy account of the public services we all could have. It's just that he's so selective about the countries he visits that it really does get close to dishonesty.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The countries he mentioned that I know anything about are not how he portrays them. Italy for example has ruinous unemployment levels and low wages relative to neighbouring countries. Possibly lots of Italians would rather have 12 months a year of decent pay than 13 months a year of shit pay.
France may have posh school dinners but it's still, ultimately, France. And if they're teaching the kids about the fundamentals of French cuisine then they're teaching them about veal sauce.
