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what happened to all the 90s political scenes?

in the 90's the AR movement was quite vibrant, whatever you think of that particular worldview. however, i believe it was starting to negatively impact on the ability of certain private companies, for example HLS - to function properly, plus there was the infamous 'grave digging' incident. so the state showed it's teeth and turned pretty ruthlessly on it with a significant degree of success. they handed down some insanely long prison sentences - longer than many murderers and paedos get - to certain 'prominent' activists, i even remember them sentencing someone in malvern to four years prison basically for running a website. i suppose it's what any social movement can expect if they begin to attain any degree of 'success'.
 
we are waiting as well

aye. what distresses me is that I suspect outwardly I've become what the kids of today are rebelling against. Inwardly, I'm just waiting for them to ignite the spark, and then I'll be there, ready and willing to learn as well as show them how it's done...
 
But is it different for our generation? Was it easier to be completely involved in a protest movement then? Was the economy better, better enough for somebody to drop out for a few years and then still live a life afterwards? What did all these people do afterwards?

Thats what i would really like to know...
 
my first thought on seeing this thread title was to find a longterm graph of videogame sales, but I can't on 30sec googling so you'll have to imagine one.

second thought is that the 90s were a fairly dull period when the level of youth rebellion was rather low. Compared to the 80s and particularly the 70s when me and my mates were up to all the things we could get up to. That was real, it mattered, we meant it, we were trying to change the world and although we got battered and bruised into submission our attempts would stand as a beacon to be built on. The 90s just kindof rolled through without much to motivate me, just a bunch of kids with marginal ideas messing around. I spent most of the 90s (not to mention noughties and tensies) poised and ready for them, the kids, to click, to become politicised, to rebel, to express a real identity and commitment to change. Still I wait....

I kinda agree with what you are saying but i think you are maybe being a bit unfair there too. I think growing up in that context with the fall of the soviet union, the decline of unions in the backdrop and with established left groups like the SWP still going on about 1917 seeming completely irrelevant, i think it was relativly easy for people to think that something different from some marxist derivative was needed.

I think that attitude of just going out there and dealing with issues as one found them was probably a reflexive-attempt-to-keep-nihilisim-at-bay response, and was never going to pose a real challenge to the way things are. And definately the multifarious issue based nature of it, alongwith the subcultural dimensions mentioned ultimately was just a mirror image of the market society and did pave the way for the middle class lifestylism one finds with buying organic, vegan,fair trade, or whatever.

However i think the traditional left has to take some responsibility too in that state of affairs, by having a part to play in the discrediting of traditional left ideology.

I think at the moment, in terms of the ideas that are circulating in leftie discourse, we are in a much better position than before. Marx's credibility in on ascendancy, there are marx reading groups popping up everywhere, and more widely there is a growing perception in society that there is something problematic with capitalism. In regards to the reading groups phenomenon, it almost feels as if there is some kinda sola scriptura reformation like event taking place, an opertunity for the left to discard the crap it was wedded to and now no longer needs to apologise for.

But at the same time, i think the problems with the traditional left are just as bad as they were in the 90s, perhaps worse. The taking on of the identity politics which i think was a part response to the 90s issue based approach is one thing that probably is out of sync with the rising perception of capitalism being a problem. And also this going on about fucking 1917 and saying stuff like well if x dead russian got there way in this situation it would be all great, is definately going to do the left no favours.
 
I'd also suggest that the 90s didn't much have to contend with the problem represented by Urban75. That anyone with a spark of intoxicating excess is immediately crushed by the weight of internet worldweary, btdtgtts, cynicism.

yeah i fucking hate the internet, which i express best by moaning about on the internet.
 
in the 90's the AR movement was quite vibrant, whatever you think of that particular worldview. however, i believe it was starting to negatively impact on the ability of certain private companies, for example HLS - to function properly, plus there was the infamous 'grave digging' incident. so the state showed it's teeth and turned pretty ruthlessly on it with a significant degree of success. they handed down some insanely long prison sentences - longer than many murderers and paedos get - to certain 'prominent' activists, i even remember them sentencing someone in malvern to four years prison basically for running a website. i suppose it's what any social movement can expect if they begin to attain any degree of 'success'.

yeah that gravedigging incident was really OTT. I've had a few discussions with AR people since then, and whenever ive mentioned that they totally deny that it took place and start saying it was the state that made that shit up and then infer that my politics have gone soft now that im believing such 'lies'. Maybe they are right about my politics going soft :oops:
 
The road protests were a big part of my life for a few years.
my impression of that was that it acted something like a training camp, that taught direct action skills to an increasingly hardened core group who then went on to do all kinds of other activism. Could say it was an equivalent of revolutionaries who in the 60s and 70s went off to other countries to learn guerrilla warfare. The people ive known who were involved with Roads were the most hardy activists after the fact. Is that fair to say?

Should also say there were committed activists throughout the 80s who also had an important role in handing down skills. Your point about dole and student grants is an interesting one - it definitely feels more unafordable to drop out and do full time activism than it did. (not that i ever did)

Are spectacular situationist stunts/Temporary Autonomous Zones a rejected tactic now (whether consciously or not)?

I think in the 90s there was pretty deep anti-party politics feeling, and although that has deepened even further and spread further into the wider population my impression is that theres more interest in getting 'organised' in some shape or form now, though a healthy fear of hierarchy and general commitment to horitzontalism has made that process more.... fragmented perhaps, and less visibly successful than it might otherwise be. I think its brewing though
 
I'd also suggest that the 90s didn't much have to contend with the problem represented by Urban75. That anyone with a spark of intoxicating excess is immediately crushed by the weight of internet worldweary, btdtgtts, cynicism.

Bit cynical that given the years of optimism and initiation of activities documented by participants on this site.
 
Few quick obvious points - cultural stuff in modern capitalism is always on a loser from the start unless it can develop roots and make connections with wider stuff and wider concerns - hospital closures and stuff about the conditions that everyone has to live their lifes in, rather than just a small section. Otherwise you do end up with 'dissenting communities' self-ghettoised and people being cut off from the skills, knowledge and experience of others (in both directions). People weren't unaware of this at the time though.The closest this came to happening was with the roads stuff actually impacting on wider plans of capital development (if you can't strike, where can you stop the circulation/operation of capital?) and the attempts at rts linking up with the locked out liverpool dockers, which didn't really work out in the long term. But it is interesting that we're discussing this in terms of cultures - which misses all the mums out campaigning for speed bumps or against mobile phone masts, or people working on casualisation or other safety at work (reminds me of another crossover here, the simon jones/casualisation campaign), the tenants groups and so on...
 
Bit cynical that given the years of optimism and initiation of activities documented by participants on this site.

Are people still enthusiastically doing stuff though? I dimly remember a more militant/activist time in Urban's history but these days I don't see much of the same energy. May just be me not paying attention though.
 
Few quick obvious points - cultural stuff in modern capitalism is always on a loser from the start unless it can develop roots and make connections with wider stuff and wider concerns - hospital closures and stuff about the conditions that everyone has to live their lifes in, rather than just a small section. Otherwise you do end up with 'dissenting communities' self-ghettoised and people being cut off from the skills, knowledge and experience of others (in both directions). People weren't unaware of this at the time though.The closest this came to happening was with the roads stuff actually impacting on wider plans of capital development (if you can't strike, where can you stop the circulation/operation of capital?) and the attempts at rts linking up with the locked out liverpool dockers, which didn't really work out in the long term. But it is interesting that we're discussing this in terms of cultures - which misses all the mums out campaigning for speed bumps or against mobile phone masts, or people working on casualisation or other safety at work (reminds me of another crossover here, the simon jones/casualisation campaign).

Definately...

I think the fact that a lot of the ideas floating around the time of the road protests was primmo anti-civ definately did that movement no favours in regards to linking into the circulation of capital and probably alienated that movement from the average person as well.
 
Definately...

I think the fact that a lot of the ideas floating around the time of the road protests was primmo anti-civ definately did that movement no favours in regards to linking into the circulation of capital and probably alienated that movement from the average person as well.

Just thought of another attempt to make connections, the exodus collective in luton - not perfect, but aware of the problems facing the wider class.
 
my impression of that was that it acted something like a training camp, that taught direct action skills to an increasingly hardened core group who then went on to do all kinds of other activism. Could say it was an equivalent of revolutionaries who in the 60s and 70s went off to other countries to learn guerrilla warfare. The people ive know who were involved with Roads were the most hardy activists after the fact.

Perhaps few people will like me saying this, as if that would stop me, but I think the truth is we (activists and politicos of my/our generation) sold out.

Should also say there were committed activists throughout the 80s who also had an important role in handing down skills. Your point about dole and student grants is an interesting one - it definitely feels more unfordable to drop out and do full time activism than it did.

Are spectacular situationist stunts/Temporary Autonomous Zones a rejected tactic now (whether consciously or not)?

To me this is *the point*.

One of the fundamental and underlying basics of activism has to be both the time and the space to participate. This still exists.... just, but is massively under threat this is the battleground, in my opinion.

The sad thing is that most of the people fighting in that battleground find it hard to gain public support for a variety of reasons.. not least of which is the perception that its all about shit raves that achieve little apart from healthy sales of cheap class A's.


I think in the 90s there was pretty deep anti-party politics feeling, and although that has deepened even further and spread into the wider population my impression is that theres more interest in getting 'organised' in some shape or form now, though a healthy fear of hierarchy and general commitment to horitzontalism has made that process more.... fragmented perhaps, and less visibly successful than it might otherwise be.

I think so... perhaps its harder to identify a strong leadership figure in such an environment. Perhaps that isn't necessary. But my feeling is that people will always coalesce around campaigns led by charismatic figures... and it it works... use it.
 
Just thought of another attempt to make connections, the exodus collective in luton - not perfect, but aware of the problems facing the wider class.

The M77 in glasgow was a biggie in terms of it being articulated in class terms and in environmental terms too. Rosie Kane of SSP fame came out of that protest.
 
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