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what happened to all the 90s political scenes?

Sweetpea said:
:) I agree. But without starting a bunfight (as I said I really want to talk some days) how is the current I hate/love swappies/IWCA thing any different?
Especially as you said yourself -
"have to say the buzz of self righteousness is 100000 times better than any class A"
I am usually seriously intimidated off this forum and will probably regret it tomorrow when I:​
a) sober up​
b) all the usual suspects turn up with their hounding tactics​
eta
c) start trying to translate a private 'in language' that I understand is a pre agreed short hand to allow fast discussion but doesn't exactly reach out
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that sucks that you feel intimidated off this forum. i think there are a lot of arguments that take place between people but i think that generally is either a)interpolitico, or b) if a really right wing person appears then obviously thats going to invite comment. and yeah i agree that overly academic language doesnt really help when often as you say such things can be translated in a way that is understantable to anybody unfamiliar with the jargon without loss of nuance in what is said.
 
Sweetpea said:
The problem they face which seems to be defying any easy resolution is simply the need to impose austerity, the need to attack the gains of an entrenched working class, without destroying the fragile Conservative social consensus represented by the 'Essex Man' phenomenon. With the dream of a property-owning democracy sinking into the nightmare of debt, the consensus is rapidly becoming unravelled, but UK plc cannot retreat. What better tonic than a good old attack on those firmly outside of the deal, the marginalized, whose exclusion the Conservative deal was predicated upon, to stiffen up resolve in the ranks for those attacks which threaten to recompose the class.

Without being critical, I'm glad it sounds so familiar to you. maybe I am a thick working class cunt but wtf?
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It's OK. mass descent isn't born of wordy analysis. (Though ti it has it's place.)

Defenistrate the bankers, politicians and generals. We'll describe the the underlying philosophical justification later. :)
 
Ok thank you, stuff it. I trust you. So what is "an entrenched working class"? I'm guessing that the 'Essex Man' phenomenon is the 'boot straps' working class that were fooled the first time round by the RTB property owning dream - a lot of people on the estate I grew up on couldn't give a flying fuck about whether there was social value in social housing; they exercised their Right to Buy and fucked off away from the 'ghetto' to the home counties - most notably Essex. The rest I don't really understand but it gives me that uneasy feeling that there are people out there discussing the 'entrenched working class' like it's a entomology field trip.
 
By entrenched they mean those that have something to lose as you said.

Many of my friends lost their rtb former council homes when the interest rates went up but some did well out of it.

Don't feel intimidated by posting in politics sweetpea. You'll do fine.

Edit to add: I was at some of the RTS in London more by accident than design. It was more me following my friends and wanting to have a good time. The 90's seem like another world. So many possibilities.
 
xenon said:
It's OK. mass descent isn't born of wordy analysis. (Though ti it has it's place.)

Defenistrate the bankers, politicians and generals. We'll describe the the underlying philosophical justification later. :)
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Not being cunty - really want to talk. "mass descent" did you mean mass dissent? My spelling is awful but I need to understand. And if you meant mass dissent, why does it feel like some people assume some other people (the entrenched working class) want this? Maybe some people don't want their consciousness raised, however useful that is, maybe some people, like my nan, want everyone to fuck off and leave her alone. I can promise you she doesn't want to be part of a mass anything and certainly doesn't want it going on down her street.
 
yield said:
By entrenched they mean those that have something to lose as you said.

Many of my friends lost their rtb former council homes when the interest rates went up but some did well out of it.

Don't feel intimidated by posting in politics sweetpea. You'll do fine.

Edit to add: I was at some of the RTS in London more by accident than design. It was more me following my friends and wanting to have a good time. The 90's seem like another world. So many possibilities.
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Ta yield, I remember neighbours losing everything when the interest rates changed. Handed their keys back and didn't understand why they couldn't walk away. But like you said others did well(?) I knew people who had never known someone who had owned property before (that's for the Lord of the Manor - I kid you not) and it fucked them up - they went all 'an Englishman's home is their castle' and started not giving a crap about friends and family. I guess that's why it was an amazing, if not ok, bit of social engineering.
 
yield said:
Edit to add: The 90's seem like another world. So many possibilities.
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Sorry to take that out of context but even though it seemed like another world, that cunt Iain Duncan Smith had the DWP then so comme ci comme ca
 
Sweetpea said:
Ta yield, I remember neighbours losing everything when the interest rates changed. Handed their keys back and didn't understand why they couldn't walk away. But like you said others did well(?) I knew people who had never known someone who had owned property before (that's for the Lord of the Manor - I kid you not) and it fucked them up - they went all 'an Englishman's home is their castle' and started not giving a crap about friends and family. I guess that's why it was an amazing, if not ok, bit of social engineering.
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That was the whole "essex man" thing. Those who'd sold up and moved into the country.

"An Englishman's home is their castle." Atomisation of society. Those who were poor cause they chose it. Bollocks basically.
 
yield said:
That was the whole "essex man" thing. Those who'd sold up and moved into the country.

"An Englishman's home is their castle." Atomisation of society. Those who were poor cause they chose it. Bollocks basically.
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yeah, I remember that. And worse, as I alluded to the 'boot straps' poor; those that were so fooled that they believed that they had dragged themselves up by them (and not as a result of social engineering). Like anyone now,RTB or not, could buy a decent house. And after dragging themselves up by their 'boot straps' they pulled up the fucking gangplank after them (anyone who benefits from the state is a scrounger).
I just get annoyed that it sometimes seems that the 'working class' are either fools to be realised as a force or innocent angels being played with by devils.
 
Sweetpea said:
Not being cunty - really want to talk. "mass descent" did you mean mass dissent? My spelling is awful but I need to understand. And if you meant mass dissent, why does it feel like some people assume some other people (the entrenched working class) want this? Maybe some people don't want their consciousness raised, however useful that is, maybe some people, like my nan, want everyone to fuck off and leave her alone. I can promise you she doesn't want to be part of a mass anything and certainly doesn't want it going on down her street.
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Yep. My spelling's woful. And TBF I'm just sounding off a bit. Not a big reader of political theory, sociology and such like myself. We live in interesting politically charged times. Maybe it's a function of my sinisism, perhaps I'm just paying more attention but it seems to me people are increasingly angry and ware of being shafted. Aware of something rotten in the system we're all supposed to believe in. The shabby fairy tale of Liberal democracy, the post cold war triumphant eefficacy of free market economics falling apart in front of our eyes.
 
xenon said:
Yep. My spelling's woful. And TBF I'm just sounding off a bit. Not a big reader of political theory, sociology and such like myself. We live in interesting politically charged times. Maybe it's a function of my sinisism, perhaps I'm just paying more attention but it seems to me people are increasingly angry and ware of being shafted. Aware of something rotten in the system we're all supposed to believe in. The shabby fairy tale of Liberal democracy, the post cold war triumphant eefficacy of free market economics falling apart in front of our eyes.
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To be honest, from my point of view, it's always been shite. We always live in interesting politically charged times. No oneupmanship but after all, isn't this what this thread was supposed to be about - 'political' scenes from two decades ago.
 
I think there are number of areas that you can look at see why the "90s protest scene" faded away and hasn't continued or been replicated. It is worth remembering that it was 20 years ago though, and that is a long time...

1/ Continuity...
There were few structures set up to allow the "scene" to be passed from generation to generation. Spaces were squatted and impermanent, groups were ad hoc and temporary meaning that once our generation got old we left nothing concrete for others to carry on with. Earth First! could perhaps have been an exception. It could've become a more lasting network of established groups, but for a number of reasons it didn't.

2/ youth, sub and counter cultures.
These don't tend to last as mass phenomena. 20 years after any youth cultures existence all you can expect is a sort of "recreation society" based largely on niche shopping. Look at goths or hippes or punks or whatever. There was no way the various subcultures that coalesced together in the 90s were still going to be around now. Especially as the 90s were essentially the climax of a number of these subcultures anyway...

3/ political repression
The cops have learnt how to deal with 90s style protest. It's much harder now to pull off, and get away with, the kinda stunts we pulled back then.

4/ 9.11
The fear of terrorism really put a downer on militant direct action.

5/ shenanigans
Police infiltration - we're seeing so e of this come out now.
An influx of nastier drugs into the scene. Too many people were getting fucked up on ket etc.
The attempt to push the movement underground. This largely failed, the ELF didn't really take off here, and all they really ended up with now is the "insurrectionary dickheads".

6/ "cool Britannia"
Tony Blair and Britpop really took the edge off stuff.

7/economics
Tighter dole regimes after the introduction of the JSA meant that being a PANSiE was no longer an option, this coupled with the rocketing cost of being a student took away the two main ways of funding a life of activism.

8/politics
The collapse of the Left took its toll. Fewer demos to piggyback on, fewer groups leaking members with organising experience.
The shift to "anti-capitalism" also cost. Didn't really suit the direct action tactics of the movement nd was seen by too many as yet another "issue" rather than a structural thing. Too big a monster to slay.

9/ losing set piece battles.
Newbury and Genoa both in different ways broke the movement. Traps we walked into.

...just some initial thoughts!
 
...it's also not a bad thing that the 90s scene seems to have passed away.

The last thing we need is another situation like that of the "68ers" dominating protest/politics for a couple of decades and insisting upon sticking to the tactics and strategies that they are comfortable with. Something that in their case we're only just seeing the last gasps of with the final, final death rattle of the old "new left".
 
I dont have anything to add having been a kid in the 1990s but this "protest scene" sounds like something i would have both loved and hated lol. It also seems like it was about raves and drugs and neither of those I'm really into all that much. Although I bet it was a lot of fun at the time. I only know a few people my age and younger (24/25 or so) into the rave "scene" most people who are into it are in their 30s, seems like it's dying out a bit, although my life revolves around working full time and sometimes going to the pub so what do I know.

Also the whole world of squat parties, etc, seems to be around large towns and especially around London. I live in a village and there's not much opportunity for it there, guess it was always like that though.

Sounds fun though.
 
I am interested in hearing about the road protests and reading a bit more about them, because they sound like they were both a lot of fun and really politicised a lot of people. The only memories I have of it are like hearing about "swampy" and so on on the news. There seems like a lot of direct action was around then too, when I was a kid I loved animals and the idea of Hunt Sabs and how they would stop fox hunts. I would still have loved to have been around when all that was going on :cool:
 
I wish there was something like that going on now. the hunt sabs thing is something i would have loved to have got involved in, and they had respect from a lot of people too, a lot of people agreed with what they were doing. Part of the problem with this stuff today is that it can be really boring and repetitive (selling papers etc).

I'm not talking about community stuff etc being boring btw.
 
frogwoman said:
I dont have anything to add having been a kid in the 1990s but this "protest scene" sounds like something i would have both loved and hated lol. It also seems like it was about raves and drugs and neither of those I'm really into all that much. Although I bet it was a lot of fun at the time. I only know a few people my age and younger (24/25 or so) into the rave "scene" most people who are into it are in their 30s, seems like it's dying out a bit, although my life revolves around working full time and sometimes going to the pub so what do I know.

Also the whole world of squat parties, etc, seems to be around large towns and especially around London. I live in a village and there's not much opportunity for it there, guess it was always like that though.

Sounds fun though.
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I am something similar. I am not that keen on rave or drugs either (unless it is LSD which is brilliant, but only in the right place and a rave probably isn't one of them for me).

I think it would have been the same as it is now. I would probably float about on the fringes of a lot of these different groups without going all in.

I would love the opportunity to 'drop out'. I really really would. I am sick of working for nothing and alternating it with being in the welfare system.

But is it different for our generation? Was it easier to be completely involved in a protest movement then? Was the economy better, better enough for somebody to drop out for a few years and then still live a life afterwards? What did all these people do afterwards?

I don't see many protest movements or anything else giving the opportunity to 'drop out'. Not here, but not really anywhere else either. Occupy was a damp squib. I'd only want to go all in with something I properly believed in. Naive as it sounds, after everything, I still believe in the revolution. Obviously everything is a bit more complex than I am saying here.
 
frogwoman said:
I am interested in hearing about the road protests and reading a bit more about them, because they sound like they were both a lot of fun and really politicised a lot of people. The only memories I have of it are like hearing about "swampy" and so on on the news. There seems like a lot of direct action was around then too, when I was a kid I loved animals and the idea of Hunt Sabs and how they would stop fox hunts. I would still have loved to have been around when all that was going on :cool:
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The road protests were a big part of my life for a few years.

Here's some stuff to read on 'em.

http://libcom.org/library/auto-struggles-aufheben-3

http://libcom.org/library/m11-anti-road-aufheben

Derek Wall's "Earth First! and the anti-roads movement". (I'll try and find it online later)

George McKay's "DIY Culture: Party and Protest in 90s Britain" (ditto)

All the back issues of "Do or Die" http://www.eco-action.org/dod/


:)
 
Sweetpea said:
yep, I'll give you that. It's one of the reasons I don't trust people that try and teach me about 'politics'. As the opening posts said, "people were really up for taking big risks of their own personal lifes for the sake of some political goal."
Even if I didn't know I was involved for a 'political goal' I soon learnt that these people had other lives to go back to, had other resources to rely on (even if that was simply not feeling intimidated) and most of all could close ranks very quickly if their dogma was questioned.
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From the other side of the coin, It's frustrating having very active and commited comrades of the type that don't do politics. The main issue being as they can't be arsed to think things through it makes them contradictory and incoherent. It's a pain worse than death having a discussion with them. Because, actually, they 'do' do politics. But according to them they don't. And round and round you go discussing that point until I slit my wrists.
 
my first thought on seeing this thread title was to find a longterm graph of videogame sales, but I can't on 30sec googling so you'll have to imagine one.

second thought is that the 90s were a fairly dull period when the level of youth rebellion was rather low. Compared to the 80s and particularly the 70s when me and my mates were up to all the things we could get up to. That was real, it mattered, we meant it, we were trying to change the world and although we got battered and bruised into submission our attempts would stand as a beacon to be built on. The 90s just kindof rolled through without much to motivate me, just a bunch of kids with marginal ideas messing around. I spent most of the 90s (not to mention noughties and tensies) poised and ready for them, the kids, to click, to become politicised, to rebel, to express a real identity and commitment to change. Still I wait....
 
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